Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Vampiregenesis]

I'm unsure why you linked this. I'm not disagreeing with the realistic assessment that western allies might lose interest over time (which frustrates me to no end, this is one of the best investments these nations could make to counter Russian global fuckery) or that Russia has a real chance of winning - that's always been vey real.

I'm asking about the links to propaganda, and more specifically what pro-Russian news sites suddenly look legit?

Did you forget that Zelensky and Budanov were saying that they will conquer Crimea soon? or maybe when Blinken said that the Russian army is the second best in Ukraine? There are a lot of examples of high officials who made it look like Ukraine is winning or is going to win, they tried to create a momentum with lies when it was clear that Ukraine stand no chance in this offensive, maybe if they prepared for a longer time and improved their airforce they would stand a chance but they were pushed too early into this. What we see now is an unstoppable Russia completely unharmed from sanctions and with great production rates. Ukraine was used as a pawn to cause some damage and then be discarded, the west didn't want it to win this. These men were sacrificed as tools, I would feel very insulted if I was an Ukrainian. The "combined arms" strategy was also a lie because this requires an Airforce and Ukraine is lacking there.

There are some local news sites (on my country but I guess on other countries too) that were writing lots of stuff and analysis but it looked trollish, keep in mind many news sites invested into this, (pro-russia propaganda), these will end up being winners because if Russia ends up winning, they will now look credible.

[Edge-]

Did you forget that Zelensky and Budanov were saying that they will conquer Crimea soon? or maybe when Blinken said that the Russian army is the second best in Ukraine? There are a lot of examples of high officials who made it look like Ukraine is winning or is going to win, they tried to create a momentum with lies when it was clear that Ukraine stand no chance in this offensive, maybe if they prepared for a longer time and improved their airforce they would stand a chance but they were pushed too early into this. What we see now is an unstoppable Russia completely unharmed from sanctions and with great production rates. Ukraine was used as a pawn to cause some damage and then be discarded, the west didn't want it to win this. These men were sacrificed as tools, I would feel very insulted if I was an Ukrainian.

There are some local news sites (on my country, maybe others too) that were writing lots of stuff and analysis but it looked trollish, keep in mind many news sites invested into this, (pro-russia propaganda), these will end up being winners because if Russia ends up winning, they will now look credible.

Those are a whole lot of words that aren't even attempting to provide links backing up your claims, but let's have a go at it!

Zelensky is the leader of a nation on the defense, he makes some bold aspirational claims...and?

Blinken was shit talking the Russian military at a time they were getting their asses kicked, he was also discussing how the status of Russia's military in the global eye has plummeted now that we've seen them in action again - this time without being little green men. They're still likely the second best military in Ukraine, they just benefit from having millions more young men to pull off the streets and out of prison to throw into the meatgrinder and being a nation with a larger economy/production capactity than tiny little Ukraine, who are reliant on western support to fight a nation that's vastly larger than they are.

Yes, allies will push positive messages to continue to generate support for the war. That doesn't make them false, at the time most messages were conveyed they were largely accurate.

An "unstoppable Russia" is sure a way to put it I guess if you're looking to talk up how great Russia is. The more realistic take is a spectacularly weak Russia is simply managing to outlast western nations supporting Ukraine. This isn't some grand victory as you seem to think it might be, this is basically Russia being willing to throw more of their citizens into the meat grinder than Ukraine can logistically do. "Unharmed from sanctions" is not remotely accurate and flies in the face of the realities in Russia, including the multiple time-bombs that they're setting themselves up, including demographic.

Ukraine was a willing, happy "pawn" because their interests were defending themselves against hostile foreign invaders. If that means being the one fighting the "proxy war" for the west, so be it. They were going to be fighting the hostile invaders either way, why not do so with more equipment and training by finding western partners and allies?

I don't think anyone is interested on your views if you were a hypothetical Ukranian.

Oh, and gotcha, so your girlfriend goes to another school but she totally exists and she's really real and you'll ask her for a picture so you can show us what she looks like later?

[alach]

I think you are being a little extreme with your analysis here. I don't think ukraine had no chance, if it was that bad they would be being pushed back still and that's not happening at all
I think ukraine is preparing for the long haul, they are also building new production lines, working with other countries to manufacture ammunition and repair and maintain western nato vehicles. This war is no where near over, and ukraine is still in good position with the EU and others behind them, just not as loudly as before.

[Wilian]

Well, I agree that we should have done way more historically. It's on us to correct it now, especially since the West is the target of putin's wrath in the end - he intends to challenge article 5 at some future point.

Nuclear escalation management is a real thing and not something our top folks take lightly. Yes, sometimes it might feel a bit too cautious I agree but even if there is a 0.1 % chance - that's about the end of humanity basically. 1 in 1000 chance to end humanity is nothing to play around with. At least, the ones in charge don't think so. Fortunately.

The west ruled that we give up our nuclear sovereignity the moment we allowed Russia to be the owner of escalation and threat. Russia was given free reign to apply both into it's narrative and the western limp dicked reaction and appeasement over the Russian nuclear threat gave them the de facto right conduct any sort of horrific crime against humanity that they'd want in pursue of their imperialistic goals and once you give over the tools of escalation and threat, it is very difficult to re-obtain them without absolute show of power. It's a grave we as a whole dug.

A grave that we should get out of and exercise that show of power to re-obtain the geopolitical power required to conduct these modern day affairs but at current trajectory will not happen. What we'll see is continued appeasement over their threats and deteriorating support for Ukraine in wake of counter-offensive that with current level of support was bound to be what it was. And that's collectively on the West as we failed to provide them the tools required for real operational success, especially in air and in artillery. Now that is being thrown around as an excuse for seemingly lessening support and the increased narrative over Ukrainian failure and underhanded calls for peace which probably is the most disgusting example of the current outlook.

[Makabreska]

Oh hey! The guy who last time being here called us all "western shills" and went searching for a "Russian point of view" is back!

[Iphie]

Something tells me it would've been much cheaper overall, especially in lives lost, for Russia to have just asked to buy land from Ukraine instead of going to war--sorry, a three day special operation--with them.

Buy...land? From an inferior? PREPOSTEROUS! I mean that's probably what putin thinks. That and "why buy when you can take".

[Saradain]

Oh hey! The guy who last time being here called us all "western shills" and went searching for a "Russian point of view" is back!

He was oh so worried for ukrainian conscription how horrible it is to be called to defend one's country. Now he turned hostile and anti-Ukraine

Russian propaganda claims another victim.

[Easo]

The count of interesting (?) articles is accelerating. Someone is really pushing that Zelensky vs Zaluzhny angle.
Stoltenberg's "bad times" one also has to be noted. Better hope that the circus that is USA Congress will approve new aid package, as the current one is almost done.

Ukraine has a 50 trillions dollars GDP alliance behind them, Russia economy is collapsing, Russian industry is dying without western imports.

Think again.

And no, China does not want to get dragged into a war it hasn't chosen.

See the question above about where the fucking money/ammo/guns are in regards to that HUGE ASS GDP. As for dying economies, well, you better not look into Europe's heavy industry, especially that of Germany. It clearly is all going according to plan (?), any day now...

[PgStckr]

Ukraine was a willing, happy "pawn" because their interests were defending themselves against hostile foreign invaders.

By openly stating and actively trying to join the openly anti-Russia alliance.
5head right there.

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ukraine is still in good position

With a little caveat of running out of Mikolas to subdue and send to be turned into mincemeat by FABs and Sunshines.

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Buy...land? From an inferior? PREPOSTEROUS! I mean that's probably what putin thinks. That and "why buy when you can take".

In 1721, Pyotr the Great literally bought most of the Baltic lands.
Just a reminder.

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Did I ever tell you the definition, of..Preemptive Strike?

“If we telegraphed our plans on social media and on tv, we’d achieve nothing,” says Mykhailo Zabrodsky, a former commander of Ukraine’s air-assault forces, who remains close to the planning process. The lieutenant-general insists an operation to take back Crimea is not only possible, it was something that was being prepared for 2023.

https://www.economist.com/europe/202...-and-difficult

[Muzjhath]

In 1721, Pyotr the Great literally bought most of the Baltic lands.
Just a reminder.

TIL that reparations for declaring war and giving over land won during war (while returning other land -Finland) is "buying".
Sweden sceeded the Baltics, Russia stopped occupying Finland.

[PgStckr]

TIL that reparations for declaring war and giving over land won during war (while returning other land -Finland) is "buying".
Sweden sceeded the Baltics, Russia stopped occupying Finland.

Learn some more, then:
https://journal-otechestvo.ru/peter-...tkqzk479652634

I do believe finns are still grateful to Emperor Alexander the II, who gave Finland souvereignity somewhere in late 19 century.

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I'm sure this must be some KreMliN ProPaGaNdA:
https://thenationonlineng.net/nato-d...-approval/amp/

[Iphie]

In 1721, Pyotr the Great literally bought most of the Baltic lands.
Just a reminder.

putin != Pyotr the Great. No matter how much he wants to be seen as such. He is a pathetic little cretin with both an inferiority and superiority complex.

[PgStckr]

putin != Pyotr the Great. No matter how much he wants to be seen as such. He is a pathetic little cretin with both an inferiority and superiority complex.

So you confirm that Russia has a legal claim for all the Baltic lands, yes or no?

[PgStckr]

Ukrainian lives are (and has been since the beguining) just a CHEAP asset for the psychopaths in US state department to use as they please. They are a number in a spreadsheet, that's all.

Netherlands are here to back you up on it:
"Supporting Ukraine is a very cheap way to make sure that Russia with this regime is not a threat to the NATO alliance. And it's vital to continue that support," Kajsa Ollongren, the Netherlands defence minister, said.

https://www.timeturk.com/en/dutch-de...ato/news-83909

[Gabriel]

So you confirm that Russia has a legal claim for all the Baltic lands, yes or no?

Russia is free to try to take them by force if it wants to.

Do it. See what happens when you attack a NATO country.

[Azadina]

Ruskiterrorists must be getting absolutely pounded somewhere along the front, because the troll army is out in force flinging their propaganda. Couldn't be a better start for the week.

[Vankrys]

See the question above about where the fucking money/ammo/guns are in regards to that HUGE ASS GDP. As for dying economies, well, you better not look into Europe's heavy industry, especially that of Germany. It clearly is all going according to plan (?), any day now...

Germany problems are solvable, Russia's are not. Germany has a rock solid industrial complex, with state of the art technology. They made a mistake IMO by stepping away from nuclear energy and it's biting them, but that's another debate.

Russia is a glorified gas station for cheap oil and gas. They have no international industry to speak of. Even their arm sells plummeted since the beginning of the war. If this war was a showcase of Russian military industrial complex achievement, it failed catastrophically.

But up until 2022, I too though Russia military was a force to reckon. I would have guess without hesitation that Russia is the second military in the world. But right now, I'm not even sure it makes the top 5 (outside of nukes).

As for nukes, the maintenance of both warhead and delivery system is both expensive, and technologically demanding. But even if only half of Russian nuke still work, that's enough to erase any country on the word, so yeah, the west alliance is treading lightly, especially with a madman like Putin in charge.

[Iphie]

So you confirm that Russia has a legal claim for all the Baltic lands, yes or no?

No, russia has no LEGAL claim to any piece of land outside of their internationally recognised borders.

[Saradain]

Like clockwork, instant return to trolling once holiday ends. And even new names!

Truly something to behold.

[PgStckr]

No, russia has no claim to any piece of land outside of their internationally recognised borders.

So you deny that baltic lands were bought by Pyotr the Great, fair and square?

Internationally recognised borders, huh... I believe there's around a dozen or so countries which aknowledge Crimea as Russian.
Crimea returned to it's rightful place back in 2014, so almost 10 years ago.
Russia was sanctioned by the socalled civilised west for this occasion.
israel violently, with military incursion, lots of casualities, using forced population redislocation, annexed Holan Heights 40 something years ago. Only one country aknowledged Holan Heights as israeli lands. No sanctions from the socalled civilised west whatsoever.
Why.