Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Xyonai]

Sup with pro-russians emerging in past few days?

Ukraine managed to blow up a couple of major transport rails in Eastern Russia that they use to get shipments to/from China and North Korea. So I guess the hornets nest got kicked.

[ghotihook]

Ukraine managed to blow up a couple of major transport rails in Eastern Russia that they use to get shipments to/from China and North Korea. So I guess the hornets nest got kicked.

According to the Russians I am sure it was a minor train fire.

[Iphie]

According to the Russians I am sure it was a minor train fire.

Just a poorly extinguished cigarette, really. Nothing to worry about.

[Xyonai]

According to the Russians I am sure it was a minor train fire.

I'm sure the old tunnel the first train blew up in is perfectly fine and utterly unaffected by all the fuel it was carrying suddenly exploding.

Everyone knows thermodynamics is just Western propaganda.

[zorkuus]

According to the Russians I am sure it was a minor train fire.

They'll try to make it seem like it was due to their own incompetence and not because of ukraine... that'll show us!

[Saradain]

Allowed? He's the head of his nation. While he likely can't say many things for operational security, it's hard to avoid the implication you're claiming he's a puppet of others.

Zelensky is just a pawn of the interests and the huge money behind him. I'm sorry If I was too incisive towards your post or you. I just came to realize no one have obligation to know anything or to delve in any geopolitical matter. The media already did its job, people already made their minds and have their gazillions of links they trust.

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When did the US State Department start their mass mind-control/brainwashing program to force these Ukrainians to go out and fight and all that? Where do you reckon they set up shop? Kyiv?

Maybe 2014? Maybe before that? "Mind-control" is a silly term. It's more like shaping a convenient "reality". Funding agitation, propaganda, separatist groups, militias, think tanks, etc. Do you think all the "china virus", "china have concentration camps", "china is spying americans" (meanwhile, a whistleblower exposes facebook) came out of nowhere? Or that north koreans eat dogs and are forced to have the same haircut? There is an interesting coorporation called "Radio Free Asia", totally funded by US gov and based in Washington/DC. It's like a "Fox News" for Asia, maybe you should take a look. You can find all kinds of weird misinformation and the most psychotic conspirations for all tastes.

Imagine a government that is unable to spend a single dollar for some very basic universal healthcare for its own citizens, suddenly have huge amounts of resources for weapons and media channels to throw it in almost every conflict zone around this planet.
Doesn't it ring a bell that it's a deliberately chosen model/approach of intervention?

That is the point, it's a blood geopolitical theater. It's a chosen model of "business" and foreign policy. Kissinger died a few days ago, he carries a very "intense" biografy that might help you understand. Seriously just look at Palestine, it's impossible to find a more crystal clear example about how the "Kissinger approach/model" still stands.

Imagine if at least part of these huge amounts of resources were directed to a different approach, to avoid direct conflict at all costs, to make diplomacy effective and taken seriously. Problem is no one gets rich with that, wars are more profitable. So, instead of conflic solving, we got warmongering campaigns. And here we are.

And where did you learn the "truths" then? You personally witnessed a huge conspiracy theory? Or was it a youtuber with 1k viewers?

[zorkuus]

Imagine if at least part of these huge amounts of resources were directed to a different approach, to avoid direct conflict at all costs, to make diplomacy effective and taken seriously. Problem is no one gets rich with that, wars are more profitable. So, instead of conflic solving, we got warmongering campaigns. And here we are.

Imagine ruZZia didn't attack Ukraine. No need for conflict solving in the first place.

[Vankrys]

Zelensky is just a pawn of the interests and the huge money behind him.

What do you expect any leader of any nation under invasion by a much more powerful force than its own do? Seriously, let Zelinsky aside, what should have done any other president of Ukraine in these circumstances according to you? Immediately surrender? Flee? Die?

Of course a leader is going to fight back and defend its country, what the hell did you expect? And any reasonable leader would have entered any alliances he needs to in order to protect his country, his people.

I am amazed at those ruskies who think everyone should just fall over and let the red army march over them. Even the smallest country has its pride and will fight back.

[zorkuus]

what should have done any other president of Ukraine in these circumstances according to you? Immediately surrender? Flee? Die?

Do you even have to ask that? You know that's what he's thinking.

And his idea of "diplomacy and conflict solving" = just give ruZZia what it wants.

[Saradain]

I am bit surprised that someone can actually think that North Korea isn't a hellhole, or that China would never spy on other countries...Or that coronavirus did not originate in China.

[Xyonai]

Do you even have to ask that? You know that's what he's thinking.

And his idea of "diplomacy and conflict solving" = just give ruZZia what it wants.

As it turns out, Sovereign nations -really- don't like being invaded by their neighbors, and they -really- don't like it when the invading forces use their civilians as target practice.

But, no, him fighting tooth and nail against Russia's forces must be some grand conspiracy and how dare he put the civilians that Russia keeps deliberately shooting at in danger by not immediately surrendering and capitulating to a regime that's been incredibly honest about how much they want Ukraine as a culture to vanish off the face of the planet.

[Saradain]

Let's say that I learned an "unconventional" version you will never see on CNN by following the current conflict in the Middle East and trying to understand it through its roots. Reading documents, hearing the point of view of many anti-zionist jews scholars (and also understanding why they are usually silenced or even called "anti-semites"), comparing how the news were told in many big journals. Understanding how big global players acted and what was their influence in the region. Maybe, I was a bit too ingenuous about certains limits, maybe my brain broke a little, who knows.

The fact is the human catastrophe in Palestine is just unforgivable, unforgettable. And to watch that in 4k, while psychopaths from IDF spread the most stupid lies like it's all "acting", etc. And even Biden endorse their lies. Well, that's something that will shake your head a bit, no matter how impregnated with shit your mind is.

Last days, I was reading about Kissinger, Edward Snowden and Julian Assange. But anyway, I won't fight here. People are free to take these conflicts as a Marvel movie or to believe whatever they want, it's ok.

You are pushing a quite a conspiracy theory if you think Reuters is not legit as the worlds most renown news agency and you believe all the conspiracies you listed above earlier.

Because it's ironic. You hate/discredit all western media and leadership, but same time if we think the same about russian stuff, we're the ones in the wrong...?

[Jastall]

You are pushing a quite a conspiracy theory if you think Reuters is not legit as the worlds most renown news agency and you believe all the conspiracies you listed above earlier.

Because it's ironic. You hate/discredit all western media and leadership, but same time if we think the same about russian stuff, we're the ones in the wrong...?

It's a particular sort of enlightened neutral middle party act who just happens to tell you to consider America as the literal worst thing ever while making excuses for all the rest. He's probably going to go on and cite/quote Chomsky or Mearsheimer next, thinking it makes him very special and above the rest of the intellectual rabble.

IMO those are even more insufferable than the actual, honest to goodness pro-Russians/China people. At least they own up to their views and don't try to spin a spider's web of coy excuses around them.

[Iphie]

But, no, him fighting tooth and nail against Russia's forces must be some grand conspiracy and how dare he put the civilians that Russia keeps deliberately shooting at in danger by not immediately surrendering and capitulating to a regime that's been incredibly HONEST about how much they want Ukraine as a culture to vanish off the face of the planet.

Such a strange concept to have to acknowledge that russians don't always lie...

[Xyonai]

Such a strange concept to have to acknowledge that russians don't always lie...

I mean, when their talking heads keep talking about how much they wanna eliminate Ukrainians while their soldiers spent a good chunk of the first year of the war abusing and murdering Ukrainian noncombatants like it was a national sport, I'm inclined to believe them just this one time. As a treat.

[Edge-]

The fact is the human catastrophe in Palestine is just unforgivable, unforgettable. And to watch that in 4k, while psychopaths from IDF spread the most stupid lies like it's all "acting", etc. And even Biden endorse their lies. Well, that's something that will shake your head a bit, no matter how impregnated with shit your mind is.

Why do you have to bring up Israel and Gaza? We've been watching livestreams from the front lines in Ukraine since Russia chose to invade. In 4Kp60, baby. Including the atrocities the Russians committed and the mass graves.

[Corvus]

russia is pushing really hard in the information sphere of late, pushing a lot of untruths and mistruths and half-truths and using useful idiots to try and amplify it. They need support to Ukraine to stop because they are badly stuck. Problem is that while the US is having difficulties due to the useful idiots in the republican party, there is still support coming in. Finland just announced it is going to manufacture heavy artillery ammunition for Ukraine for starters, and a number of other European nations have made announcements in the last week of continuing support being sent.

November saw russia take some of its heaviest losses for the whole war, not just claimed losses but verified losses. And what did they get for a few tens of thousands of casualties? 4 square kilometers. For a month. At that rate it'll take 150 years to reach Kyiv. And casualties in the millions.

Speaking of - there seem to be a lot of russian soldiers missing. We know they invaded with 200K men, plus the Donbass puppets. As things bogged down, thew threw in almost their entire army, called up reserves, drained Donbass try of men, and sought volunteers. When that didn't work they mobilised 300k more men, took 100k more out of prisons and claim that this year had another 400k 'volunteers'. And yet they still only have 400k men in Ukraine. So somewhere along the line 600k+ men have disappeared.

They aren't being kept back training and they aren't manning the borders with NATO, so it is possible Ukraine's numbers may be close to truth. 300k dead, another 300k+ wounded and crippled.

[Edge-]

I had to bring up Israel/Gaza, because I think it is the most clear practical example of how REAL western foreign policy (led by the US) works. No matter how the media tries to clean it up, what you see there is REALITY, it's western foreign policy in practice.

This is a domestic issue for Israel. While US policy towards Israel (and other nations policy towards Israel) has a role in this overall, it remains a domestic issue for Israel and not some example of the west puppeteering states.

So, yesterday they condemned russian attacks, today they endorse israeli attacks. The blatant hypocrisy is the hint about how the real game is played, the Kissinger game. Gaza doesn't have army, navy or airforce, but a clandestine group. And ofc, they have reserves of natural gas, the big prize.

Damn, almost like the war in Ukraine and the war in Israel are to wildly different conflicts, between wildly different groups and with wildly different histories?

Though if you're going to invoke Kissinger I do hope you realize that most of this thread probably danced at the news of his death and he likely doesn't have many fans here. The dunks you think you're getting are seeming to be airballs.

I inicially thought Israel would first try a tactical/intelligence approach.

Then I'd have to guess you've spent as little time paying attention to that conflict and the history there as you have the war in Ukraine. Not getting more into it than that as this is the Russia thread, my dude.

Why? Because they heared the magical words: unconditional support. The code, the dogwhistle for the IDF. "Unconditional support" = we'll cover your genocide/ethinc cleasing/mass displacement. We'll veto anything at UN. That's real western foreign policy in practice.

It's weird how you think the US, which is a shitshow itself, is actually also secretly manipulating all these nations around the world so expertly, secretly, and effectively.

Meanwhile, the US is struggling to pass a budget because the Republican party in control of the House spent 3 weeks picking someone to lead them and the best they could do on the other end was a continuing resolution.

Like, these theories are honestly so detached from observable reality they're hilarious.

[Jastall]

The fact the you are anticipating so much info about someone you don't know gives me a hint about how sensitive this subject is. People already have full pictures in their minds. I'll delete the sig, if that's the problem, so ppl don't get offended for nothing.

"America as the literal worst thing ever while making excuses for all the rest."

America foreign policy is the worst thing ever. Period.
Feel free to disgree, but that's my genuine opinion atm.

There is no excuses for anyone, other countries do a lot of shit. It just that no other country have the material conditions, the resources, the mediatic network, the vassal states. No other country accumulated so much power to imperial levels. When a powerful empire do shit, it stinks big, everywhere.



I had to bring up Israel/Gaza, because I think it is the most clear practical example of how REAL western foreign policy (led by the US) works. No matter how the media tries to clean it up, what you see there is REALITY, it's western foreign policy in practice.

So, yesterday they condemned russian attacks, today they endorse israeli attacks. The blatant hypocrisy is the hint about how the real game is played, the Kissinger game. Gaza doesn't have army, navy or airforce, but a clandestine group. And ofc, they have reserves of natural gas, the big prize.

I inicially thought Israel would first try a tactical/intelligence approach. The guys just went straight to carpet bombing houses and building everywhere. Why? Because they heared the magical words: unconditional support. The code, the dogwhistle for the IDF. "Unconditional support" = we'll cover your genocide/ethinc cleasing/mass displacement. We'll veto anything at UN. That's real western foreign policy in practice.

The full pictures are there because the whole song and dance has been performed here and elsewhere a number of times. Don't get offended, as you like to say. It's just an observation that your opinion isn't as unique as you seem to believe.

American foreign policy isn't different from the policies of other powers like China or Russia. It's the classic realpolitik outlook of spheres and influence and crisis management (or causing a crisis and using it). The only real difference is that America's policies work more often due to 1. them being able to throw outrageous amount of resources at a problem compared to their peers, 2. having fairly reliable allies (mostly in Western Europe) and 3. usually accompanying their hegemony with actual benefits so that a fair amount of nations want to participate in it. It's no coincidence that, say, NATO keeps expanding, because the benefits of NATO are clearer the closer you get to Russia. It's no coincidence that those Asian countries that don't want to be influenced/conquered by China go to daddy USA instead. It's not about the media when it comes to higher level decisions, it's flatly because America, when it wants to, can be pretty good at showing why you should join its club, whereas others are mostly good at threatening people outside their club instead which isn't as effective most of the time.

When other powers try to add benefits to their sphere of influence, it tends to not work as well. China tried real hard with the Belt And Road business and propping out African infrastructure but the former is a massive investment money pit and the latter mostly served to trap underdeveloped countries with astronomical repayments.

Besides, going on about how bad the Americans are RE meddling on other's business in a thread about Russia outright trying to annex its neighbor out of imperialist motivations while using the most transparent bullshit as excuses is pretty gauche if you ask me. There's a thread about Israel right there where I'll definitely agree that America is not helping matters at all within the context of not only Palestine but the Middle East in general. The entire region's modern geopolitical landscape is built on one American foreign policy failure after the other across decades. It definitely shows them at their worst. But the thread is about Russia and Ukraine, which aren't in the Middle East.

[Iphie]

Speaking of - there seem to be a lot of russian soldiers missing. We know they invaded with 200K men, plus the Donbass puppets. As things bogged down, thew threw in almost their entire army, called up reserves, drained Donbass try of men, and sought volunteers. When that didn't work they mobilised 300k more men, took 100k more out of prisons and claim that this year had another 400k 'volunteers'. And yet they still only have 400k men in Ukraine. So somewhere along the line 600k+ men have disappeared.

They aren't being kept back training and they aren't manning the borders with NATO, so it is possible Ukraine's numbers may be close to truth. 300k dead, another 300k+ wounded and crippled.

That would explain the drive to glorify the 8 time mothers...