Russian invasion of Ukraine

[zorkuus]

Then we need to get with the argument. If someone falls out of a vagina within dumb lines of map as another person are they super guilty as the other person. because if you go by the logic of everyone is guilty of their own crimes, not of others, then punishing random people for just being from the same landmass is stupid.

They're not random people. Athletes represent their country and its values, like it or not. And you don't get to represent your country in an autocracy if you don't sign along its tune.

- - - Updated - - -

Or take the chance and negotiate for a peace settlement? If Putin violates the treaty, Ukraine will retaliate and give Russia hell, and the West will likely be more emboldened in their support for Ukraine.

Putler and ruZZia has already violated everything, multiple times. There's no reason to give them the 999th chance.

[Forogil]

So what is the alternative? For Ukrainians to continue fighting amid dwindling support and manpower, which means Ukraine's military will eventually collapse thus giving Russia the opportunity to conquer the entire Ukraine?

The alternative is to support Ukraine more, and not be alarmist. You have a choice in that.

At least the latter will give Ukraine the moral high ground for trying (to seek peace).

That seems like the Russian style of negotiation: pretend to give Ukraine something they already have; in this case the moral high ground.

[The Stormbringer]

So what is the alternative?

What is the alternative? The alternative is for Russia to leave. To turn around, and go back home, to their own country. That is the alternative.

Because even if the USA, Europe, and all the other countries supporting Ukraine stopped giving support, Ukrainians would fight tooth and nail, and if and when Russia starts rolling in, they would break their military apart into cells to operate during the occupation phase, because there would have to be an occupation phase, unless Russia plans on murdering every single Ukrainian and planting their flag atop a mountain of corpses.

[Gabriel]

What is the alternative? The alternative is for Russia to leave. To turn around, and go back home, to their own country. That is the alternative.

Because even if the USA, Europe, and all the other countries supporting Ukraine stopped giving support, Ukrainians would fight tooth and nail, and if and when Russia starts rolling in, they would break their military apart into cells to operate during the occupation phase, because there would have to be an occupation phase, unless Russia plans on murdering every single Ukrainian and planting their flag atop a mountain of corpses.

Lets not pretend that wasn't the plan all along.

[Flarelaine]

Lets not pretend that wasn't the plan all along.

We can really only speculate, but a lot of analyses have been published over the past two years and the one I favour is the one that said Russia is terrified about their demographics. Their "core" population (Orthodox Russians) is getting older and smaller in number whereas their Muslim population is growing dynamically. Some projections expect Russia to become a majority Muslim country at some point later this century. Capturing a large Orthodox population would remedy that but is not accomplished by exterminating Ukraine.

All those kidnapped children certainly seem to support the demographic angle.

[Easo]

It should be horrifying to see that people support extrajudicial killings but I guess I am not surprised anymore.
Rule of law, lul.

Also the latest support package from Germany involves... 250 artillery shells. Not a typo. You should all ask WTF is going on.

[DarkTZeratul]

It should be horrifying to see that people support extrajudicial killings but I guess I am not surprised anymore.

"Extrajudicial killings"? They're openly at war with Russia and he joined the other side. How do you not understand this simple concept?

[zorkuus]

It should be horrifying to see that people support extrajudicial killings

I'm pretty sure every kill in a fucking war is like that. Think McFly, think!

[Iphie]

I'm pretty sure every kill in a fucking war is like that. Think McFly, think!

No, technically not as soldiers are not prosecuted for killing other soldiers in a war, that is legal. Extrajudicial killing would be summary execution or arbitrarily killing of civilians, both have happened and I'm not denying that, but not every kill in a war is extrajudicial by default.

[zealo]

Please, stop. We already don't take you seriously, you can stop working hard to make sure we don't take you seriously.

He's not even trying particularly hard with that one, he's just brainlessly regurgitating Kremlin talking points openly yet again.

Just earlier this week Sergei Naryshkin, the director of the Russian SVR, pushed that exact same line of thought

[Rustedsaint]

Still not sure why you guys keep yelling at the Russian bot, if you ignore it will eventually get sent to the front anyway like yuppie.

[Azadina]

So, the grand solution is to sacrifice every ukrainian head avaliable in this magnificent plan of yours? "Fight Russia until the last ukrainian head!"

That sounds like a very peculiar way to "care" about ukrainians. And I'm not very sure if that's what they want for them. But who knows.

The grand solution is to keep it going until every orc, and orc wannabe are dead and buried.

[Corvus]

So, the grand solution is to sacrifice every ukrainian head avaliable in this magnificent plan of yours? "Fight Russia until the last ukrainian head!"

That sounds like a very peculiar way to "care" about ukrainians. And I'm not very sure if that's what they want for them. But who knows.

Except russia has openly and repeatedly said they plan to exterminate the Ukrainians as a people and have specifically said they will need to eradicate a large portion of the population who cant be 'converted'.

So is it better to die fighting or wait for the gas chambers?

[Benggaul]

If the plan is a mass extermination, why they don't nuke everything? Why they are wasting time? What are they waiting for? Or maybe that's not the plan? It's insane to me that people think infine war is something nice and that there shouldn't be any effort to end this.

Just on the off chance you aren't just a massive fucking troll on a ban-evading alt account, nuking the country would both 1) ensure that they incur ACTUAL consequences from most of the rest of the world and 2) leave them unable to claim all of the resources of Ukraine.

But given what you've written here before it's probably meaningless to point out the fucking obvious.

[Jastall]

So, the grand solution is to sacrifice every ukrainian head avaliable in this magnificent plan of yours? "Fight Russia until the last ukrainian head!"

That sounds like a very peculiar way to "care" about ukrainians. And I'm not very sure if that's what they want for them. But who knows.

Yeah, right now they're only fighting because Uncle Sam is brainwashing them. Who knows what'll happen when it wears off.

[Benggaul]

So, the plan is a mass extermination, except that they can't do a mass extermination for the reasons you just described.
Don't you think that mass extermination AND nuking are basically the same thing? So, the same consequencies 1 and 2 you mentioned would be on the table, anyway.

Honestly, I think people were blinded by the warmongering propaganda. Every war in history, no matter how it started, had a way of finding its end.

Dishonest troll it is, then.

[Corvus]

Nukes would lead to massive consequences from near everyone, including China. China has openly said nukes are not to be used and russia can't ignore what their overlords say.

Nukes would also irradiate the whole region, with fallout spreading across the important parts of russia, ie Moscow and St Petersburg. Hope you have your iodine tablets to hand.

And russia doesn't want to exterminate all of them, just most of the males, leaving children to be indoctrinated and women to be used as breeding stock for more russians. The only makes left would be the quslings who would be second class citizens anyway, as can be seen in the occupied Donbas.

[Calfredd]

So, the grand solution is to sacrifice every ukrainian head avaliable in this magnificent plan of yours? "Fight Russia until the last ukrainian head!"

That sounds like a very peculiar way to "care" about ukrainians. And I'm not very sure if that's what they want for them. But who knows.

As opposed to sacrificing every Ukrainian head available by allowing Russia to fully invade and take the country over?

[zorkuus]

The point was to do efforts to try to resolve and end the conflict. Try anything, I don't know exactly what it would be. What about gathering enough forces to a negotiation table and try to find a way? Do you think it's impossible? I think it would be worth a try. And if it fails, try again. And then keep trying as much as it's needed. I bet it's also cheaper.

ruZZia has stated plenty of times that any negotiations on Ukraine's terms would be impossible. There. ruZZia doesn't want a real negotiation, where both make compromises. They just want to have their way 100%.

[Calfredd]

The point was to do efforts to try to resolve and end the conflict. Try anything, I don't know exactly what it would be. What about gathering enough forces to a negotiation table and try to find a way? Do you think it's impossible? I think it would be worth a try. And if it fails, try again. And then keep trying as much as it's needed. I bet it's also cheaper.

And when (not if, when) Russia breaks any treaty, oath, or promise they make and attack again?