Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Saradain]

First time that I hear this. Any sources?

https://visitukraine.today/blog/1974...t-mobilisation

Won't let me copypaste stuff so have a screenshot:

[Forogil]

We can't be sure of the numbers. Both sides use tons of propaganda. The only certain is that the attacking side takes at least x2 the casualties especially against a well digged in / fortified defender.

That is just a rule of thumb.

In military doctrine in an open field battle with all other thing being equal, 3 attackers are needed to overcome a defender. In the case of Ukraine war, we made sure that RU has air superiority by not giving airplanes from month #1, thus i suspect that Ukraine took multiple times the losses. We are ruled by completely incompetent politicians.

Russia still does not have air superiority.

If US/EU don't pick up the weapons delivery SIGNIFICANTLY in the next months, we will witness the biggest fail in western history.

Not necessarily, but the US/EU should do it regardless.

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Since you seem relatively new in this thread, do you think russian demographics are better than Ukraines at the moment? Given we've had that discussion too and it looks far, far worse for Russia given the magic 300k number. And a TON, more than 300k left Russia during first mobilization.

And more realistic observers don't see demographics as a limiting factor for either side.

[Iphie]

And more realistic observers don't see demographics as a limiting factor for either side.

Perhaps, but the population pyramid of russia is not in their favour...(excuse the size I'm not sure how to resize this.)

[Dontrike]

an update vid

[video=youtube;beecnWKAOrI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beecnWKAOrI[/vieo]

No one should get their war news from youtube, or news from youtube. Please go back to school.

[Elder Millennial]

I see the Vatniks are back.

Sheer number of bodies you can throw into a meat grinder won't win you a war.

"Demographics" is utterly irrelevant in this context unless you plan on turning this into a generational conflict, even then.

What's your plan here? How do you plan on actually mobilizing those people? Logistically speaking. How will you get them to front? And keep them there? Feed them, cloth them, provide medical care, training, equipment etc.

Nobody has ever questioned Russian numerical superiority. What's in question is Russia's ability to utilize it.

Just looking at numbers on paper, Ukraine should have no air force, no artillery, no armor, and no infrastructure by this point. Yet somehow, we have a stalemate.

Also Russian production numbers were and are bullshit.

Several pages ago I already explained how they rig their production numbers and how they keep on putting new (refurbished) equipment in service.

The weak link here is western defeatism and internal sabotage from Russia aligned factions...like the GOP, Orban etc.

Also, let's say Russia somehow manages to hold onto the territories it currently holds permanently in a negotiated settlement.

That's still not a Russian victory. The initial Russian war goals were either the complete annexation of Ukraine or its subjugation Belarus style. That objective will never be achieved.

[Xyonai]

It also says a lot when an alleged industrial powerhouse can barely get supplies to a front line right on it's doorstep.

Ukraine's ultimate win condition (shoving Russia out of their territory) isn't assured, but Russia's abhorrent logistics have given them more than a fighting chance.

[zealo]

No one should get their war news from youtube, or news from youtube. Please go back to school.

And on top of that, that particular dude is extraordinarily awful of a “source” among them.

It explains a lot about why Waffles views are so warped that he’s following such a complete tool as HistoryLegends.

[Specialka]

I see the Vatniks are back.

Sheer number of bodies you can throw into a meat grinder won't win you a war.

"Demographics" is utterly irrelevant in this context unless you plan on turning this into a generational conflict, even then.

What's your plan here? How do you plan on actually mobilizing those people? Logistically speaking. How will you get them to front? And keep them there? Feed them, cloth them, provide medical care, training, equipment etc.

Nobody has ever questioned Russian numerical superiority. What's in question is Russia's ability to utilize it.

Just looking at numbers on paper, Ukraine should have no air force, no artillery, no armor, and no infrastructure by this point. Yet somehow, we have a stalemate.

Also Russian production numbers were and are bullshit.

Several pages ago I already explained how they rig their production numbers and how they keep on putting new (refurbished) equipment in service.

The weak link here is western defeatism and internal sabotage from Russia aligned factions...like the GOP, Orban etc.

Also, let's say Russia somehow manages to hold onto the territories it currently holds permanently in a negotiated settlement.

That's still not a Russian victory. The initial Russian war goals were either the complete annexation of Ukraine or its subjugation Belarus style. That objective will never be achieved.

What happened during the Korea war seems to disagree with your statement.

[Iphie]

I see the Vatniks are back.

Sheer number of bodies you can throw into a meat grinder won't win you a war.

"Demographics" is utterly irrelevant in this context unless you plan on turning this into a generational conflict, even then.

You do realise that's exactly what's happening, yes? putin is actively fostering an atmosphere in russia where there is never ending war for generations to come.

[alach]

You do realise that's exactly what's happening, yes? putin is actively fostering an atmosphere in russia where there is never ending war for generations to come.

It's a good distraction for the peasants. And he can now blame all the country's problems on evil Nato aggression.

[Elder Millennial]

You do realise that's exactly what's happening, yes? putin is actively fostering an atmosphere in russia where there is never ending war for generations to come.

Being on a perpetual war footing/mentality and being actually at war are different things.

North Korea has been "at war" since 1950, but there hasn't actually been any real engagement since 1953. You know 70 years now.

Tho an outcome like that will certainly not be politically very complicated for Ukraine as it will seriously complicate their NATO/EU membership.

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What happened during the Korea war seems to disagree with your statement.

In what way?

Throwing bodies at allied forces didn't win North Korea/China the war. Elaborate beyond nuh-uh if you're trying to make a point.

[Specialka]

Being on a perpetual war footing/mentality and being actually at war are different things.

North Korea has been "at war" since 1950, but there hasn't actually been any real engagement since 1953. You know 70 years now.

Tho an outcome like that will certainly not be politically very complicated for Ukraine as it will seriously complicate their NATO/EU membership.

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In what way?

Throwing bodies at allied forces didn't win North Korea/China the war. Elaborate beyond nuh-uh if you're trying to make a point.

That's the thing. The allied had the technological advantage and were winning until the North + China started to throw human waves pushing them back. So yes, sheer number can be used as an effective strategy.

[Corvus]

Technology was very, very different back then. Human waves just don't work any more with drones watching all the time, precision munitions and all the other advances made since then.

[Gorsameth]

We have HIMARS missiles that kill 'soft targets' in a 4 football field radius. The notion you can 'human wave' against that is just silly.

[Elder Millennial]

That's the thing. The allied had the technological advantage and were winning until the North + China started to throw human waves pushing them back. So yes, sheer number can be used as an effective strategy.

The technological advantage bit is HIGHLY debatable.

North Korea and China was HEAVILY supplied by the USSR which at the time had a near technological parity and in some areas superiority over the allies. The Russians were flying MiG15's (Jet fighters) from inside the USSR (Google MiG Alley), later in the war they operated all over Korea.

Throughout the war the Allies never achieved air superiority, tho they did have an edge in air support and bombing capacity. But the Chinese+North Koreans always had the artillery edge.

Tank wise the NK were using T34-85's (upgunned T34s) and the allies were still using Shermans and Pershings.

So the notion that the allies had some sort of overwhelming technological advantage or whatnot is just goofy.

[Muzjhath]

We have HIMARS missiles that kill 'soft targets' in a 4 football field radius. The notion you can 'human wave' against that is just silly.

Seriously. "Human wave" has been defunct as a strategy since WW1 (arguably earlier).
Had the Blitzkreig of WW2 been a "human wave" it would have failed. It was a highly motorized wave followed by an incredibly advanced and efficient logistics train.

Can pure numbers still make a point and matter? Yeah, ofc it can. If you get a hundred thousand people that's still a lot of pressure. But it's not what it was.

[Ihavewaffles]

This is something else, and welcome to BRICS, received like a winner, guess which side will decide this century forwards?




do the Saudis still not return Blinken's calls?

[zorkuus]

This is something else, and welcome to BRICS, received like a winner, guess which side will decide this century forwards?

Not the autocratic shit side. Suck it.

[Wilian]

BRICS, as in the organization that has not passed a single substantial decision/project for themselves and is built of major large countries that on occassion are flirting with large open war?

I'll not hold my breath of their success.

[Ihavewaffles]

The BRICS countries overtook the G7 countries share of the world's total gross domestic product (GDP) in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP) in 2020. By 2023, the difference had increased even further, the BRICS now holding a total 32 percent of the world's GDP compared to 30 percent held by the G7 countries.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...7%20countries.