Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Ulmita]

Russian soldiers complain that North Korean ammunition is causing weapons to 'explode'

Russian forces on the frontline in Ukraine are reportedly complaining to their superiors that their North Korean-made munitions are randomly "exploding".

This comes as South Korea revealed last month that North Korea may have sent over a million artillery shells and other munitions to Russia for use in Ukraine

Tendar, a social media account that monitors the war in Ukraine, revealed that posts on Russian military Telegram channels exposed the consequences of the faulty munitions.

Tendar posted on X, formerly known as Twitter: "More complaints regarding North Korean ammo.

"Russian military bloggers report that the North Korean ammunition is very unevenly produced."

The post continued: "Even coming from the same production lot, it is obvious that deviations in the charge compositions and powder can be seen.

"It is very poor quality. Targeting and hitting becomes a game of luck.

"This comes after reports of production deviations of the shells in terms of manufacturing tolerances which were too much outside acceptable parameters and causing barrels of Russian artillery to explode."

This comes as frontline footage filmed by Russian forces shows large-calibre rounds, not exploding on impact.

Ya get what you pay for apparently.

I am tired of such articles. Yeah you know which I mean: Bad ammunition, low ammunition, no ammunition, shovels only....

[Benggaul]

"Your honor I object!"
"On what grounds?"
"Because it's devastating to my case!"

[alach]

[QUOTE]Russia has lost 87% of troops it had prior to start of Ukraine war, according to US intelligence assessment[/QUOTE]

CNN
—
Russia has lost a staggering 87 percent of the total number of active-duty ground troops it had prior to launching its invasion of Ukraine and two-thirds of its pre-invasion tanks, a source familiar with a declassified US intelligence assessment provided to Congress told CNN.

Still, despite heavy losses of men and equipment, Russian President Vladimir Putin is determined to push forward as the war approaches its two-year anniversary early next year and US officials are warning that Ukraine remains deeply vulnerable. A highly anticipated Ukrainian counteroffensive stagnated through the fall, and US officials believe that Kyiv is unlikely to make any major gains over the coming months.

The assessment, sent to Capitol Hill on Monday, comes as some Republicans have balked at the US providing additional funding for Ukraine and the Biden administration has launched a full-court press to try to get supplemental funding through Congress.

Those are some big numbers. And no matter what you think the reason was, is it worth it? Is it worth for Putin to continue? For what end? These anti-Ukraine people keep saying to negioiate - But for what? What does Putin actually want? Has he said? 4 new regions or the complete siezure of all the Ukrainian lands and the erasure of its idenity and culture, like he has already done in cities like Melitopol.

[Xyonai]

Those are some big numbers. And no matter what you think the reason was, is it worth it? Is it worth for Putin to continue?

Russian forces have shown an inability to retake new territory, at least not without suffering catastrophic losses (by way of the Bakhmut meat grinder or blowing up that dam and drowning a bunch of their own soldiers) so right now all Putin -can- do is stall until either he wears down western patience with the war or the Russian lines collapse so utterly that holding onto their gains is impossible.

A stalemate for territories he's managed to hold onto is the best case scenario for him right now, which isn't an unachievable goal if the lines hold out long enough for the Western world to get bored of supporting Ukraine. But, considering the wasted manpower, destroyed equipment, and spiraling economy... A consolation prize of slivers of unremarkable land don't seem worth the effort.

[Ulmita]

"Your honor I object!"
"On what grounds?"
"Because it's devastating to my case!"

No because articles with no sources other than "a guy in telegraph" or "trust me bro" are laughable

[Gigantique]

I wonder if this is how sane people in the 1920s and 30s felt, looking at Germany, Italy, or seeing in other nations groups like the British Union of Fascists marching freely and having a huge "WTF is wrong with you." viewpoint.

The general awareness globally was probably lower then and especially so the access to information and "protection" from misinformation and/or falling for obvious propaganda that brings.

Not in any way to say we are immune to that now but we at least have legitimate reporting on events rather than ONLY having chest-thumping propaganda mills telling us what to feel as our only source of information.

[Iphie]

I wonder if this is how sane people in the 1920s and 30s felt, looking at Germany, Italy, or seeing in other nations groups like the British Union of Fascists marching freely and having a huge "WTF is wrong with you." viewpoint.

Given how Nationalism and racism were at an all time high I doubt it.

[Easo]

Citation needed*



No, because that'd be silly to have fully tooled out production facilities sitting there with people showing up to work to sit there and do nothing. I'm unsure why you'd think I might think this unless you think I'm a completely ignorant idiot, and I'd imagine we've been in enough threads to at least assume I'm not walking around with a drool bucket attached to my belt.



Well yeah, because you don't really have a huge need for high production of wartime supplies if you're not really anticipating war any time soon or anything. That's generally pretty wasteful, and as an American I can tell you a few things about gross overspending on your military!



Yes, lol. Because your average citizen is fucking ignorant as fuck and highly susceptible to bad actors misinforming them, like our Republicans in the USA. Strategically, even a loss for Ukraine is pretty fantastically cost-effective for western nations supporting them. The damage done to the Russian military and nation is immense because they chose to start a war and chose to continue it for multiple years, and it's costing western nations pennies comparatively. Your average citizen doesn't realize this because they just see $60B and go "THAT'S A BIG NUMBER!" which it is! But considering that's mostly just us dumping Cold War era supplies and otherwise spending a fraction of what mobilizing their respective militaries would cost.



Practically yes, and that's a level of involvement that western nations clearly don't have the political appetite for. If you're going to tell me the US somehow isn't capable of mobilizing and deploying significant forces both in terms of manpower and hardware or something I'm going to ask you what drugs you're on because that's ludicrous. The US very likely won't because there's no political will for it, not because they physically or practically can't logistically. Same goes for NATO forces to a lesser extent.

The first two of your answers contradict each other, lol. Citation? Did you miss the aftermath of Cold War and it's impact on the military industries? Everything was downsized, closed, bought out, merged and super importantly - privatized.
The factory lines and factories themselves literally are gone or converted to something else entirely, they were not preserved. An example? UK literally cannot make new Challengers from scratch.

Yes, exactly - now you can see what it looks like when you do not have stockpoles. Western strategy and planning failed - the big war on the continent arrived and caught everyone with pants down and it totally works differently than what was envisioned. You, American, are now going to eat that shit with the biggest spoon you can find. For a decade, at least. Or you won't and there will be consequences. Good fucking luck cause we all will need it.

A win? Have you taken a look at economies lately? Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?
Of course we can ignore the very high positioned retards who lately are claiming you will be the next ones in the trenches. Or we can not, in which case this is even more serious.

None of your theoretical matters - the "appetite", what USA might be capable of, NOTHING. Why? Because it is simply is not happening nor looks like it will happen. Theoretical doesn't fire a shell at Russians therefore everything else is nothing else but an empty noise. Either you have guns and ammo now, or you do not.
Ukraine needed those shells yesterday, they could not give two fucks how big the Daddy Sam or the Baguette or Sausage can grow. No shells = it doesn't matter and shit's fucked, yo.

How many tanks can the only working tanking factory in the West, the KWM, (not counting SK and Japan and no, USA does not have one unless you want to start counting M10's as future tanks)) make in a month? The answer seems to be 3. Three.
Do you know what the latest number for Russia is? 100-150. Before you ask - source is Latvian MoD press secretary. A reminder - NATO claim was 200 per year this summer (which was basically the peacetime number, but whatever, just another reason to laugh).
It's almost as much as UK has tanks in total, 3 months of what Germany has, 4 months of what France has. Oh, and Leopard 2's cost is simply insane, for something that is basically a consumable. How does a fucking 20 million EUR for a single tank sound to you? Oh yeah, and half of existing ones are in questionable order.
You can claim about how they are oh so much superior to Russian crap, how they save crews, and so on. But as it turns out numbers actually do matter and they matter a lot. The Ukraine started war with as many tanks as UK, France and Germany had together, 3 of top 10 GDP, lul. It enabled them to stay afloat. Numbers. Fucking. Matter.
Maybe let's talk about artillery, oh wait, same shit and ammo only for veeeeeery short war.

What the fuck are you, the West, doing?
P.S.
Blaming Repubs is really funny, when the same shit happens in leftist EU countries.

[Benggaul]

And, as always, it's "lol" followed by a load of unsupported Armchair General wankery.

[Deus Mortis]

The first two of your answers contradict each other, lol. Citation? Did you miss the aftermath of Cold War and it's impact on the military industries? Everything was downsized, closed, bought out, merged and super importantly - privatized.
The factory lines and factories themselves literally are gone or converted to something else entirely, they were not preserved. An example? UK literally cannot make new Challengers from scratch.

Yes, exactly - now you can see what it looks like when you do not have stockpoles. Western strategy and planning failed - the big war on the continent arrived and caught everyone with pants down and it totally works differently than what was envisioned. You, American, are now going to eat that shit with the biggest spoon you can find. For a decade, at least. Or you won't and there will be consequences. Good fucking luck cause we all will need it.

A win? Have you taken a look at economies lately? Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?
Of course we can ignore the very high positioned retards who lately are claiming you will be the next ones in the trenches. Or we can not, in which case this is even more serious.

None of your theoretical matters - the "appetite", what USA might be capable of, NOTHING. Why? Because it is simply is not happening nor looks like it will happen. Theoretical doesn't fire a shell at Russians therefore everything else is nothing else but an empty noise. Either you have guns and ammo now, or you do not.
Ukraine needed those shells yesterday, they could not give two fucks how big the Daddy Sam or the Baguette or Sausage can grow. No shells = it doesn't matter and shit's fucked, yo.

How many tanks can the only working tanking factory in the West, the KWM, (not counting SK and Japan and no, USA does not have one unless you want to start counting M10's as future tanks)) make in a month? The answer seems to be 3. Three.
Do you know what the latest number for Russia is? 100-150. Before you ask - source is Latvian MoD press secretary. A reminder - NATO claim was 200 per year this summer (which was basically the peacetime number, but whatever, just another reason to laugh).
It's almost as much as UK has tanks in total, 3 months of what Germany has, 4 months of what France has. Oh, and Leopard 2's cost is simply insane, for something that is basically a consumable. How does a fucking 20 million EUR for a single tank sound to you? Oh yeah, and half of existing ones are in questionable order.
You can claim about how they are oh so much superior to Russian crap, how they save crews, and so on. But as it turns out numbers actually do matter and they matter a lot. The Ukraine started war with as many tanks as UK, France and Germany had together, 3 of top 10 GDP, lul. It enabled them to stay afloat. Numbers. Fucking. Matter.
Maybe let's talk about artillery, oh wait, same shit and ammo only for veeeeeery short war.

What the fuck are you, the West, doing?
P.S.
Blaming Repubs is really funny, when the same shit happens in leftist EU countries.

I know your banned and can't respond but you missed a 3 when you said the plant can only build 3 a month.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...in-ukraine-war

Officials said Thursday that production totals at the plant — which is formally called Joint Systems Manufacturing Center-Lima — vary, based on contract demands. And while the plant is currently building 15-20 armored vehicles per month — including tanks — it can easily boost that to 33 a month and could add another shift of workers and build even more if needed.

Apparently one of the few things Trump did that was good was he actually visited the tank plant and got more money to be invested there.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenth...h=682da0d73d01

[Corvus]

Latest strike on Kyiv used around 10 s-400 missiles, which is odd. They have used plenty of surplus s300 missiles previous, but the s400 is expensive and meant to defend against NATO planes and missiles. Guess they don't consider NATO a threat after all if they are lobbing top of the line air defence missiles randomly into cities.

[Huehuecoyotl]

The first two of your answers contradict each other, lol. Citation? Did you miss the aftermath of Cold War and it's impact on the military industries? Everything was downsized, closed, bought out, merged and super importantly - privatized.
The factory lines and factories themselves literally are gone or converted to something else entirely, they were not preserved. An example? UK literally cannot make new Challengers from scratch.

Yes, exactly - now you can see what it looks like when you do not have stockpoles. Western strategy and planning failed - the big war on the continent arrived and caught everyone with pants down and it totally works differently than what was envisioned. You, American, are now going to eat that shit with the biggest spoon you can find. For a decade, at least. Or you won't and there will be consequences. Good fucking luck cause we all will need it.

A win? Have you taken a look at economies lately? Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?
Of course we can ignore the very high positioned retards who lately are claiming you will be the next ones in the trenches. Or we can not, in which case this is even more serious.

None of your theoretical matters - the "appetite", what USA might be capable of, NOTHING. Why? Because it is simply is not happening nor looks like it will happen. Theoretical doesn't fire a shell at Russians therefore everything else is nothing else but an empty noise. Either you have guns and ammo now, or you do not.
Ukraine needed those shells yesterday, they could not give two fucks how big the Daddy Sam or the Baguette or Sausage can grow. No shells = it doesn't matter and shit's fucked, yo.

How many tanks can the only working tanking factory in the West, the KWM, (not counting SK and Japan and no, USA does not have one unless you want to start counting M10's as future tanks)) make in a month? The answer seems to be 3. Three.
Do you know what the latest number for Russia is? 100-150. Before you ask - source is Latvian MoD press secretary. A reminder - NATO claim was 200 per year this summer (which was basically the peacetime number, but whatever, just another reason to laugh).
It's almost as much as UK has tanks in total, 3 months of what Germany has, 4 months of what France has. Oh, and Leopard 2's cost is simply insane, for something that is basically a consumable. How does a fucking 20 million EUR for a single tank sound to you? Oh yeah, and half of existing ones are in questionable order.
You can claim about how they are oh so much superior to Russian crap, how they save crews, and so on. But as it turns out numbers actually do matter and they matter a lot. The Ukraine started war with as many tanks as UK, France and Germany had together, 3 of top 10 GDP, lul. It enabled them to stay afloat. Numbers. Fucking. Matter.
Maybe let's talk about artillery, oh wait, same shit and ammo only for veeeeeery short war.

What the fuck are you, the West, doing?
P.S.
Blaming Repubs is really funny, when the same shit happens in leftist EU countries.

The hilarious thing about this utter pile of shite, is that if it were true, WW2 would have been impossible. Apparently, according to you, retooling an economy onto a war footing is impossible, and will be the reason the West loses.

Those who learn nothing from history, are doomed to post fog of war nonsense on forums repeatedly.

It's a shame you're banned, it's always nice to start the day with a chuckle.

[Gabriel]

Latest strike on Kyiv used around 10 s-400 missiles, which is odd. They have used plenty of surplus s300 missiles previous, but the s400 is expensive and meant to defend against NATO planes and missiles. Guess they don't consider NATO a threat after all if they are lobbing top of the line air defence missiles randomly into cities.

More like they know it is trash against NATO planes and decided to just hit something with it. My man @Ulmita could give us more up to date info on the capabilities of the S-400 system tho.

[Specialka]

The hilarious thing about this utter pile of shite, is that if it were true, WW2 would have been impossible. Apparently, according to you, retooling an economy onto a war footing is impossible, and will be the reason the West loses.

Those who learn nothing from history, are doomed to post fog of war nonsense on forums repeatedly.

It's a shame you're banned, it's always nice to start the day with a chuckle.

That is not what he is saying ? Unless I misunderstood, he is saying that the West is not willing to retool its economy for a "war economy" while Russia did.

[Huehuecoyotl]

That is not what he is saying ? Unless I misunderstood, he is saying that the West is not willing to retool its economy for a "war economy" while Russia did.

He said, and I quote "Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?"

Suggesting that the West couldn't retool towards armament production was the most laughable part of his post. Especially given that it would be a HUGE opportunity for the arms manufacturers to make bank.

[Deianeira]

The first two of your answers contradict each other, lol. Citation? Did you miss the aftermath of Cold War and it's impact on the military industries? Everything was downsized, closed, bought out, merged and super importantly - privatized.
The factory lines and factories themselves literally are gone or converted to something else entirely, they were not preserved. An example? UK literally cannot make new Challengers from scratch.

Yes, exactly - now you can see what it looks like when you do not have stockpoles. Western strategy and planning failed - the big war on the continent arrived and caught everyone with pants down and it totally works differently than what was envisioned. You, American, are now going to eat that shit with the biggest spoon you can find. For a decade, at least. Or you won't and there will be consequences. Good fucking luck cause we all will need it.

A win? Have you taken a look at economies lately? Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?
Of course we can ignore the very high positioned retards who lately are claiming you will be the next ones in the trenches. Or we can not, in which case this is even more serious.

None of your theoretical matters - the "appetite", what USA might be capable of, NOTHING. Why? Because it is simply is not happening nor looks like it will happen. Theoretical doesn't fire a shell at Russians therefore everything else is nothing else but an empty noise. Either you have guns and ammo now, or you do not.
Ukraine needed those shells yesterday, they could not give two fucks how big the Daddy Sam or the Baguette or Sausage can grow. No shells = it doesn't matter and shit's fucked, yo.

How many tanks can the only working tanking factory in the West, the KWM, (not counting SK and Japan and no, USA does not have one unless you want to start counting M10's as future tanks)) make in a month? The answer seems to be 3. Three.
Do you know what the latest number for Russia is? 100-150. Before you ask - source is Latvian MoD press secretary. A reminder - NATO claim was 200 per year this summer (which was basically the peacetime number, but whatever, just another reason to laugh).
It's almost as much as UK has tanks in total, 3 months of what Germany has, 4 months of what France has. Oh, and Leopard 2's cost is simply insane, for something that is basically a consumable. How does a fucking 20 million EUR for a single tank sound to you? Oh yeah, and half of existing ones are in questionable order.
You can claim about how they are oh so much superior to Russian crap, how they save crews, and so on. But as it turns out numbers actually do matter and they matter a lot. The Ukraine started war with as many tanks as UK, France and Germany had together, 3 of top 10 GDP, lul. It enabled them to stay afloat. Numbers. Fucking. Matter.
Maybe let's talk about artillery, oh wait, same shit and ammo only for veeeeeery short war.

What the fuck are you, the West, doing?
P.S.
Blaming Repubs is really funny, when the same shit happens in leftist EU countries.

Just curious what leftist country are you talking about?

[Fuiking]

Just curious what leftist country are you talking about?

Netherlands? Then again, netherlands hasnt been leftist since den Uyl somewhere in the 60's or 70's.

[Gorsameth]

He said, and I quote "Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?"

Suggesting that the West couldn't retool towards armament production was the most laughable part of his post. Especially given that it would be a HUGE opportunity for the arms manufacturers to make bank.

The West doesn't even need to re-arm. We're sending surplus and old gear that is being replaced

Western armies are no weaker now then they were when Russia started its invasion.

[Iphie]

Netherlands? Then again, netherlands hasnt been leftist since den Uyl somewhere in the 60's or 70's.

Jopie was from '73-'77, but we're now going full on brownshirt it seems...and Paars I and II in the 90's was left-ish...(ok, ok, yeah I know...)

[zealo]

The West doesn't even need to re-arm. We're sending surplus and old gear that is being replaced

Western armies are no weaker now then they were when Russia started its invasion.

The west does need to actively produce more shells than it is currently, on an absolutely massive scale here. If there's any lesson from this war not just for the sake of Ukraine needing more shells, it's that regular artillery is a lot more valuable in a near-peer war than what was believed before, and it's a lot better to have those shells in storage beforehand rather than needing to scramble even more when it does.

That said, any such mobilisation if it gets to a point of near-peer great power war happening, it wouldn't take decades. The likes of the US would institute a modern reincarnation of the War Production Board for mobilising and converting the economy for war at large at that point, after which vast quantities of all sorts of war materiel would start flowing.