1. #35981
    And, as always, it's "lol" followed by a load of unsupported Armchair General wankery.

  2. #35982
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    The first two of your answers contradict each other, lol. Citation? Did you miss the aftermath of Cold War and it's impact on the military industries? Everything was downsized, closed, bought out, merged and super importantly - privatized.
    The factory lines and factories themselves literally are gone or converted to something else entirely, they were not preserved. An example? UK literally cannot make new Challengers from scratch.

    Yes, exactly - now you can see what it looks like when you do not have stockpoles. Western strategy and planning failed - the big war on the continent arrived and caught everyone with pants down and it totally works differently than what was envisioned. You, American, are now going to eat that shit with the biggest spoon you can find. For a decade, at least. Or you won't and there will be consequences. Good fucking luck cause we all will need it.

    A win? Have you taken a look at economies lately? Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?
    Of course we can ignore the very high positioned retards who lately are claiming you will be the next ones in the trenches. Or we can not, in which case this is even more serious.

    None of your theoretical matters - the "appetite", what USA might be capable of, NOTHING. Why? Because it is simply is not happening nor looks like it will happen. Theoretical doesn't fire a shell at Russians therefore everything else is nothing else but an empty noise. Either you have guns and ammo now, or you do not.
    Ukraine needed those shells yesterday, they could not give two fucks how big the Daddy Sam or the Baguette or Sausage can grow. No shells = it doesn't matter and shit's fucked, yo.

    How many tanks can the only working tanking factory in the West, the KWM, (not counting SK and Japan and no, USA does not have one unless you want to start counting M10's as future tanks)) make in a month? The answer seems to be 3. Three.
    Do you know what the latest number for Russia is? 100-150. Before you ask - source is Latvian MoD press secretary. A reminder - NATO claim was 200 per year this summer (which was basically the peacetime number, but whatever, just another reason to laugh).
    It's almost as much as UK has tanks in total, 3 months of what Germany has, 4 months of what France has. Oh, and Leopard 2's cost is simply insane, for something that is basically a consumable. How does a fucking 20 million EUR for a single tank sound to you? Oh yeah, and half of existing ones are in questionable order.
    You can claim about how they are oh so much superior to Russian crap, how they save crews, and so on. But as it turns out numbers actually do matter and they matter a lot. The Ukraine started war with as many tanks as UK, France and Germany had together, 3 of top 10 GDP, lul. It enabled them to stay afloat. Numbers. Fucking. Matter.
    Maybe let's talk about artillery, oh wait, same shit and ammo only for veeeeeery short war.

    What the fuck are you, the West, doing?
    P.S.
    Blaming Repubs is really funny, when the same shit happens in leftist EU countries.
    I know your banned and can't respond but you missed a 3 when you said the plant can only build 3 a month.
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...in-ukraine-war
    Officials said Thursday that production totals at the plant — which is formally called Joint Systems Manufacturing Center-Lima — vary, based on contract demands. And while the plant is currently building 15-20 armored vehicles per month — including tanks — it can easily boost that to 33 a month and could add another shift of workers and build even more if needed.
    Apparently one of the few things Trump did that was good was he actually visited the tank plant and got more money to be invested there.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenth...h=682da0d73d01

  3. #35983
    Latest strike on Kyiv used around 10 s-400 missiles, which is odd. They have used plenty of surplus s300 missiles previous, but the s400 is expensive and meant to defend against NATO planes and missiles. Guess they don't consider NATO a threat after all if they are lobbing top of the line air defence missiles randomly into cities.

  4. #35984
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    The first two of your answers contradict each other, lol. Citation? Did you miss the aftermath of Cold War and it's impact on the military industries? Everything was downsized, closed, bought out, merged and super importantly - privatized.
    The factory lines and factories themselves literally are gone or converted to something else entirely, they were not preserved. An example? UK literally cannot make new Challengers from scratch.

    Yes, exactly - now you can see what it looks like when you do not have stockpoles. Western strategy and planning failed - the big war on the continent arrived and caught everyone with pants down and it totally works differently than what was envisioned. You, American, are now going to eat that shit with the biggest spoon you can find. For a decade, at least. Or you won't and there will be consequences. Good fucking luck cause we all will need it.

    A win? Have you taken a look at economies lately? Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?
    Of course we can ignore the very high positioned retards who lately are claiming you will be the next ones in the trenches. Or we can not, in which case this is even more serious.

    None of your theoretical matters - the "appetite", what USA might be capable of, NOTHING. Why? Because it is simply is not happening nor looks like it will happen. Theoretical doesn't fire a shell at Russians therefore everything else is nothing else but an empty noise. Either you have guns and ammo now, or you do not.
    Ukraine needed those shells yesterday, they could not give two fucks how big the Daddy Sam or the Baguette or Sausage can grow. No shells = it doesn't matter and shit's fucked, yo.

    How many tanks can the only working tanking factory in the West, the KWM, (not counting SK and Japan and no, USA does not have one unless you want to start counting M10's as future tanks)) make in a month? The answer seems to be 3. Three.
    Do you know what the latest number for Russia is? 100-150. Before you ask - source is Latvian MoD press secretary. A reminder - NATO claim was 200 per year this summer (which was basically the peacetime number, but whatever, just another reason to laugh).
    It's almost as much as UK has tanks in total, 3 months of what Germany has, 4 months of what France has. Oh, and Leopard 2's cost is simply insane, for something that is basically a consumable. How does a fucking 20 million EUR for a single tank sound to you? Oh yeah, and half of existing ones are in questionable order.
    You can claim about how they are oh so much superior to Russian crap, how they save crews, and so on. But as it turns out numbers actually do matter and they matter a lot. The Ukraine started war with as many tanks as UK, France and Germany had together, 3 of top 10 GDP, lul. It enabled them to stay afloat. Numbers. Fucking. Matter.
    Maybe let's talk about artillery, oh wait, same shit and ammo only for veeeeeery short war.

    What the fuck are you, the West, doing?
    P.S.
    Blaming Repubs is really funny, when the same shit happens in leftist EU countries.
    The hilarious thing about this utter pile of shite, is that if it were true, WW2 would have been impossible. Apparently, according to you, retooling an economy onto a war footing is impossible, and will be the reason the West loses.

    Those who learn nothing from history, are doomed to post fog of war nonsense on forums repeatedly.

    It's a shame you're banned, it's always nice to start the day with a chuckle.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  5. #35985
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Latest strike on Kyiv used around 10 s-400 missiles, which is odd. They have used plenty of surplus s300 missiles previous, but the s400 is expensive and meant to defend against NATO planes and missiles. Guess they don't consider NATO a threat after all if they are lobbing top of the line air defence missiles randomly into cities.
    More like they know it is trash against NATO planes and decided to just hit something with it. My man @Ulmita could give us more up to date info on the capabilities of the S-400 system tho.

  6. #35986
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    The hilarious thing about this utter pile of shite, is that if it were true, WW2 would have been impossible. Apparently, according to you, retooling an economy onto a war footing is impossible, and will be the reason the West loses.

    Those who learn nothing from history, are doomed to post fog of war nonsense on forums repeatedly.

    It's a shame you're banned, it's always nice to start the day with a chuckle.
    That is not what he is saying ? Unless I misunderstood, he is saying that the West is not willing to retool its economy for a "war economy" while Russia did.

  7. #35987
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    That is not what he is saying ? Unless I misunderstood, he is saying that the West is not willing to retool its economy for a "war economy" while Russia did.
    He said, and I quote "Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?"

    Suggesting that the West couldn't retool towards armament production was the most laughable part of his post. Especially given that it would be a HUGE opportunity for the arms manufacturers to make bank.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  8. #35988
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    The first two of your answers contradict each other, lol. Citation? Did you miss the aftermath of Cold War and it's impact on the military industries? Everything was downsized, closed, bought out, merged and super importantly - privatized.
    The factory lines and factories themselves literally are gone or converted to something else entirely, they were not preserved. An example? UK literally cannot make new Challengers from scratch.

    Yes, exactly - now you can see what it looks like when you do not have stockpoles. Western strategy and planning failed - the big war on the continent arrived and caught everyone with pants down and it totally works differently than what was envisioned. You, American, are now going to eat that shit with the biggest spoon you can find. For a decade, at least. Or you won't and there will be consequences. Good fucking luck cause we all will need it.

    A win? Have you taken a look at economies lately? Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?
    Of course we can ignore the very high positioned retards who lately are claiming you will be the next ones in the trenches. Or we can not, in which case this is even more serious.

    None of your theoretical matters - the "appetite", what USA might be capable of, NOTHING. Why? Because it is simply is not happening nor looks like it will happen. Theoretical doesn't fire a shell at Russians therefore everything else is nothing else but an empty noise. Either you have guns and ammo now, or you do not.
    Ukraine needed those shells yesterday, they could not give two fucks how big the Daddy Sam or the Baguette or Sausage can grow. No shells = it doesn't matter and shit's fucked, yo.

    How many tanks can the only working tanking factory in the West, the KWM, (not counting SK and Japan and no, USA does not have one unless you want to start counting M10's as future tanks)) make in a month? The answer seems to be 3. Three.
    Do you know what the latest number for Russia is? 100-150. Before you ask - source is Latvian MoD press secretary. A reminder - NATO claim was 200 per year this summer (which was basically the peacetime number, but whatever, just another reason to laugh).
    It's almost as much as UK has tanks in total, 3 months of what Germany has, 4 months of what France has. Oh, and Leopard 2's cost is simply insane, for something that is basically a consumable. How does a fucking 20 million EUR for a single tank sound to you? Oh yeah, and half of existing ones are in questionable order.
    You can claim about how they are oh so much superior to Russian crap, how they save crews, and so on. But as it turns out numbers actually do matter and they matter a lot. The Ukraine started war with as many tanks as UK, France and Germany had together, 3 of top 10 GDP, lul. It enabled them to stay afloat. Numbers. Fucking. Matter.
    Maybe let's talk about artillery, oh wait, same shit and ammo only for veeeeeery short war.

    What the fuck are you, the West, doing?
    P.S.
    Blaming Repubs is really funny, when the same shit happens in leftist EU countries.
    Just curious what leftist country are you talking about?

  9. #35989
    Quote Originally Posted by Deianeira View Post
    Just curious what leftist country are you talking about?
    Netherlands? Then again, netherlands hasnt been leftist since den Uyl somewhere in the 60's or 70's.

  10. #35990
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    He said, and I quote "Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?"

    Suggesting that the West couldn't retool towards armament production was the most laughable part of his post. Especially given that it would be a HUGE opportunity for the arms manufacturers to make bank.
    The West doesn't even need to re-arm. We're sending surplus and old gear that is being replaced

    Western armies are no weaker now then they were when Russia started its invasion.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  11. #35991
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Netherlands? Then again, netherlands hasnt been leftist since den Uyl somewhere in the 60's or 70's.
    Jopie was from '73-'77, but we're now going full on brownshirt it seems...and Paars I and II in the 90's was left-ish...(ok, ok, yeah I know...)

  12. #35992
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The West doesn't even need to re-arm. We're sending surplus and old gear that is being replaced

    Western armies are no weaker now then they were when Russia started its invasion.
    The west does need to actively produce more shells than it is currently, on an absolutely massive scale here. If there's any lesson from this war not just for the sake of Ukraine needing more shells, it's that regular artillery is a lot more valuable in a near-peer war than what was believed before, and it's a lot better to have those shells in storage beforehand rather than needing to scramble even more when it does.

    That said, any such mobilisation if it gets to a point of near-peer great power war happening, it wouldn't take decades. The likes of the US would institute a modern reincarnation of the War Production Board for mobilising and converting the economy for war at large at that point, after which vast quantities of all sorts of war materiel would start flowing.

  13. #35993
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    The west does need to actively produce more shells than it is currently, on an absolutely massive scale here. If there's any lesson from this war not just for the sake of Ukraine needing more shells, it's that regular artillery is a lot more valuable in a near-peer war than what was believed before, and it's a lot better to have those shells in storage beforehand rather than needing to scramble even more when it does.

    That said, any such mobilisation if it gets to a point of near-peer great power war happening, it wouldn't take decades. The likes of the US would institute a modern reincarnation of the War Production Board for mobilising and converting the economy for war at large at that point, after which vast quantities of all sorts of war materiel would start flowing.
    But that would take decades, decades I tell you! Or are you suggesting that @Easo doesn't know what he's talking about?
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  14. #35994
    Pootie had his 'phone in' and said his goals are unchanged. He also spouted off a bunch of numbers of troops recruited and fighting - if you calculate the numbers he is admitting to 360,000 russian troops lost.

  15. #35995
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    He said, and I quote "Do you not understand that West needs to rearm? Do you understand that it will take decades? What it will cost?"

    Suggesting that the West couldn't retool towards armament production was the most laughable part of his post. Especially given that it would be a HUGE opportunity for the arms manufacturers to make bank.
    A straight up conventional war with the usa is stupid. Putin is obviously going to use the usas own divisions against it and raise a guerrila army inside the usa, either pro-palestinian supporters, jan 6ers or both or more. As putin says, diversity is a weakness and he is exploiting that.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  16. #35996
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    A straight up conventional war with the usa is stupid. Putin is obviously going to use the usas own divisions against it and raise a guerrila army inside the usa, either pro-palestinian supporters, jan 6ers or both or more. As putin says, diversity is a weakness and he is exploiting that.
    You really do have the most overactive imagination. If only you'd put it to good use you might be an incredible fiction writer.

  17. #35997
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    A straight up conventional war with the usa is stupid. Putin is obviously going to use the usas own divisions against it and raise a guerrila army inside the usa, either pro-palestinian supporters, jan 6ers or both or more. As putin says, diversity is a weakness and he is exploiting that.
    What happened with those nukes you said Putin will defo send towards USA in Nov last year?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You really do have the most overactive imagination. If only you'd put it to good use you might be an incredible fiction writer.
    Dunno, "X has fallen" movies went really bonkers in that area.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  18. #35998
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    But that would take decades, decades I tell you! Or are you suggesting that @Easo doesn't know what he's talking about?
    Not decades, but years at least.

    The ramp-up of shell production is going a bit slowly, the US has doubled production this year, but only plan to produce 100k per month in 2025 or 2026 (up from 14k at the beginning of this year) https://www.defensenews.com/land/202...illery-rounds/ https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon...pentagon-says/

    The EU has a similar target (well 1M per year instead of 100k per month); and a more ambitious time-table - but it seems it will not be reached https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...oris-pistorius

    Ukraine seems to use more than the US plans to produce already; and could certainly use more; so a surge by a factor of 7 isn't enough.

  19. #35999
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Dunno, "X has fallen" movies went really bonkers in that area.
    The first was dumb compared to the Jamie Foxx/Channing Tatum White House attack movie (which was quite excellent and very fun), but the sequel's really cranked up the insanity and cheese in a delightful way.

    I'm honestly unsure how anyone could look at the Russian militaries achievements in Ukraine over the past few years and think that the Russian military poses a serious threat to a nation like the US in a straight up fight.

    Plus, I'm pretty sure Russia is pretty busy waging a protracted "3-Day Special Operation" that's about to enter its third year pretty soon so I don't exactly think they've got tons of free resources to foment insurrections and better arm local right wing militias (honestly could they better arm them? I'd imagine most of those folks are already better armed than what Russia could reasonably try to sneak in short of some explosives which...home made, baby) and then direct them remotely. They've got their hands pretty full as-is.

  20. #36000
    The EU is going to open up membership talks with Ukraine (and Moldova).

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67722252

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