Russian invasion of Ukraine

[alach]

I agree.
Or like, I don't mind conservatives, its just when they start spouting inaccurate facts, like Jan 6th was a tour group, and Trump was totally allowed to keep nuclear secrets next to the can that it becomes a problem.
Sadly, again, there is a striking similarly between those groups in the west and the Russian populace cheering this war on.

Oh, I just saw some big news, Ukraine's government voted to legalize weed.

[Gabriel]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

I don't think people should be automatically banned for being pro-Russia. But there's a line between being sympathetic to Russia, and genocide denialism.

I think they should be.

[Elder Millennial]

I think they should be.

I see a utility in some open lines of communications.

I don't consume Vatnik media, especially as from what I know about Eastern Europeans they tend to have a rather interesting capacity for simultaneously consuming bullshit propaganda but also sometimes realizing it's bullshit, even if they don't voice it openly, so I want to hear what THEY believe from the official propaganda served up to them by state media.

[Forogil]

UN commission has not found evidence of genocide in Ukraine.
https://news.yahoo.com/un-commission...171500785.html

Apart from everything else that is misleading in two ways: the headline from September says: "UN commission has not found ‘sufficient evidence’ of genocide in Ukraine"; but they are continuing the investigation - and have a found large number of war-crimes (relocating children, torture, rape, indiscriminate attacks on civilians primarily by Russians).

And in other reports: "The Commission is also concerned about allegations of genocide in Ukraine. For instance, some of the rhetoric transmitted in Russian state and other media may constitute incitement to genocide. The Commission is continuing its investigations on such issues."

https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/h...-ukraine/index

Seems the commission is being cautious, and taking the time to both document the Russian war-crimes, and the incitment to genocide (while those crimes are fresh), so that they later can link the two together, which gives sufficient evidence for genocide.

[Corvus]

We know pootie is desperate for Trump and the republicans to win, but a recently released intelligence report shows just how desperate - he is willing to sacrifice thousands of russian lives for it.

In the section on russia, it contains this;

“[redacted] 2022, Russian military officials proposed delaying the Russian withdrawal from Kherson until after the midterms to avoid giving a named US political party a perceived win before the election. Russia publicly announced its withdrawal the day after the election; a leading Russian propogandist suggested on a Russian state media program that the Kremlin waited to announce its withdrawal to avoid helping the Democratic Party during the elections."

So they knew they were going to pull out of Kherson before hand but continued to fight, even feeding more men into the grinder despite the bridges behind down and being unable to supply the troops properly, simply to try and give the republicans a better chance in the November 8 elections.

[Wilian]

Genocide is defined as the systematic killing of a group, such as an ethnic, religious, or national group.

There is no evidence of systematic killing of Ukrainians, but there are indiscriminate attacks on Ukrainian civilians by the Russian army. Indiscriminate attacks occur in wars, and there is no justification for them. Russia is conducting indiscriminate attacks, similar to what the Israelis (backed and funded by the US) are doing to the Palestinians, but it doesn't meet the definition of genocide against Palestinians.

If Putin truly wanted to commit genocide against Ukrainians, he would have finished the job long ago. It's ridiculous that someone here just said that Russia is worse than Nazi Germany. I hope he didn't say it with a straight face because that would be a huge insult to the victims of the Nazi regime.

Russia is worse than Nazi Germany. Russians during soviet era murdered tens of millions. Russia continues murder spree, relocations, settling other people's lands and waging imperial wars against their neighbours for expansionist goals to this date. And you are a fan of genocide, ethnic cleansing and colonization. You salivate over dead people and wish more of suffering. Be honest about it.

[Corvus]

Ukraine is claiming to have brought down three su-34s. russia's fighterbomber TG channel (which is very reliable for reporting on losses) admits to combat losses but doesn't give numbers.

The theory is that the Ukrainians brought a Patriot system in to range and bagged them while they were lobbing glide bombs from where they thought they were out of range.

[alach]

Heres a good article that offers some hope to Ukraine.

To Win, The Ukrainians Must Kill Or Maim 100,000 Russians in 2024

When Ukraine’s summer counteroffensive ended this fall and Russia’s attempt to capture the eastern city of Avdiivka slowed to a bloody grind, a war of maneuver in Ukraine became a war of attrition.

It’s apparent neither Ukraine nor Russia possesses the excess combat power it would need to achieve a major breakthrough that swiftly and radically could alter the course of Russia’s 22-month wider war on Ukraine.

Instead, the ultimate winner might be the country that attrits enough of the enemy’s forces to cause a military-wide collapse. According to the Estonian defense ministry, Ukraine can ensure Russia’s defeat in 2025 by killing or maiming 100,000 Russian troops in 2024.

That’s a lot of Russians. But then, the Ukrainians have been killing ... a lot of Russians. According to the best estimates, Ukrainian troops so far have killed or wounded 315,000 Russian troops. That’s 172,000 per year.

Outside that, settling for a ceasefire and getting Ukraine in the EU asap, then degrading Russia over the next few decades until it collapses unto itself seems like the other option, of course both sides would need to be willing to negotiate, and as much as kremlim lackeys and Putin himself say they will, he really has no interest in it.
Of course the third option, where western countries surge in advanced military gear enough to give Ukraine everything it needs to push Russia out forcefully is still possible as well. That will depend on elections across the world in 2024.

[Twdft]

OK here's a crazy idea... Ukraine could sell a strip of land 1km wide directly at the frontlines to a NATO+EU country, let's say Germany. Let's see if ruSSia attacks NATO.

[Iphie]

So, patrushev ordered the hit on priggy?

Sure the Kremlin denies but, let's entertain for a second that it WASN'T pootie who ordered this. If it wasn't then that opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities. Not in the least the notion that pootie isn't as secure in his position or is in total control.

Anyway, since the Kremlin denies it I'm convinced it's true.

[Azadina]

OK here's a crazy idea... Ukraine could sell a strip of land 1km wide directly at the frontlines to a NATO+EU country, let's say Germany. Let's see if ruSSia attacks NATO.

Let's go more crazy: Ukraine could declare war on all of NATO, and as NATO troops move into Ukraine, it could immediately surrender all Ukrainian territory under NATO control/supervision as peace terms. This leaves RuZZki terrorists on NATO controlled land, and very poor choices for them on how to keep going any direction other than back to Orcdaria.

[Twdft]

Let's go more crazy: Ukraine could declare war on all of NATO, and as NATO troops move into Ukraine, it could immediately surrender all Ukrainian territory under NATO control/supervision as peace terms. This leaves RuZZki terrorists on NATO controlled land, and very poor choices for them on how to keep going any direction other than back to Orcdaria.

Maybe that was the plan behind that rocket a year ago... Poland should have gone "U WOT MATE?!"

[Benggaul]

Heres a good article that offers some hope to Ukraine.

Well with respect to the article it sounds like the local wildlife is already helping Ukraine chip away at that 100k.

[ringpriest]

So, patrushev ordered the hit on priggy?

Sure the Kremlin denies but, let's entertain for a second that it WASN'T pootie who ordered this. If it wasn't then that opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities. Not in the least the notion that pootie isn't as secure in his position or is in total control.

Anyway, since the Kremlin denies it I'm convinced it's true.

To give the devils in the Kremlin their due, the WSJ has been nothing but another Murdoch rag for a while. I wouldn't trust them to hold my beer.

[Iphie]

To give the devils in the Kremlin their due, the WSJ has been nothing but another Murdoch rag for a while. I wouldn't trust them to hold my beer.

So one group of known liars is saying another group of known liars are lying?

Whoever to believe...

The thing is, if this assassination wasn't ordered by pootie, but by patrushev on his own accord then that's a major chink in putin's control and this, if true obviously, could be a move in a quiet coup. (I mean this would be a rather strong signal to pootie.)

Lest we forget patrushev's son has been fingered as a potential successor to putin.

Now, obviously I take it with a grain of salt mostly because who knows what really went on but I can certainly see how this would fit in an internal power struggle.

[zealo]

So, patrushev ordered the hit on priggy?

Sure the Kremlin denies but, let's entertain for a second that it WASN'T pootie who ordered this. If it wasn't then that opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities. Not in the least the notion that pootie isn't as secure in his position or is in total control.

Anyway, since the Kremlin denies it I'm convinced it's true.

It's a possibility he acted out his own volition to rid themselves of Prigozhin, but it wouldn't be much of an improvement if someone like Patrushev were to oust Pootie and take control, he's no less of a deranged warhawk than his boss is.

[Iphie]

It's a possibility he acted out his own volition to rid themselves of Prigozhin, but it wouldn't be much of an improvement if someone like Patrushev were to oust Pootie and take control, he's no less of a deranged warhawk than his boss is.

Oh, yeah, no patty wouldn't be better no. It's more the implications of him even doing something like that on his own volition. mainly because, like I said earlier, it would indicate less control on the part of pootie.

[Lynarii]

Oh, yeah, no patty wouldn't be better no. It's more the implications of him even doing something like that on his own volition. mainly because, like I said earlier, it would indicate less control on the part of pootie.

I think it's highly unlikely though. If Patrushev felt like Putin had lost control and it was time to take a major step on his own, he'd have gone after Putin himself, he wouldn't do something that just advertises the fact that he's making independent power plays while Putin still has power. It's not like Prigozhin was an ally of Putin's, it doesn't weaken Putin's power to take him out. If Patrushev was the one who gave the order, I'd wager it was with Putin's behind the scenes okay so Putin's fingers aren't directly on a broken agreement.

[Cynical Asshole]

Patrushev were to oust Pootie and take control, he's no less of a deranged warhawk than his boss is.

His boss showed weakness by failing in Ukraine. How is taking up the same task as his boss and very likely failing at it too because he can't do anything other than what his boss already did, somehow a good idea?

[Iphie]

I think it's highly unlikely though. If Patrushev felt like Putin had lost control and it was time to take a major step on his own, he'd have gone after Putin himself, he wouldn't do something that just advertises the fact that he's making independent power plays while Putin still has power. It's not like Prigozhin was an ally of Putin's, it doesn't weaken Putin's power to take him out. If Patrushev was the one who gave the order, I'd wager it was with Putin's behind the scenes okay so Putin's fingers aren't directly on a broken agreement.

Not necessarily, by offing priggy on his own he's sending a message to putin (all on the assumption it is true of course), the message being: "you're weak, and I can do what I want." . Now if this is the case I can see it in a greater power struggle and eliminating competition for his son. Priggy may not have been a putin ally but he was still somewhat popular, with him around it would not have been a shoe in for patty's son.

Many successful coups and power grabs happen because:

-The army stops supporting the powers that be
-The intelligence apparatus deposes the powers that be or
-The populace rises up and doesn't care for casualties on their side.

Any combination of those factors can spark a full blown revolution, and the second option can be very subtle and bloodless...guess what patty is the head of?