1. #37041
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Rumour has it another A-50 joined the Eternal Flight:

    https://kyivindependent.com/russian-...military-says/

    edit: at this point there is coverage and it's no longer a rumour.
    Last edited by Iphie; 2024-02-23 at 09:41 PM.

  2. #37042
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Rumour has it another A-50 joined the Eternal Flight:

    https://kyivindependent.com/russian-...military-says/

    edit: at this point there is coverage and it's no longer a rumour.

    Even russian sources are admitting to it. The attack was caught on film, with it desperately dropping flares but still being hit and going down in flames.

    russia is only meant to have 6 or 7 of these things in operation, and that's 2 of them down now. And they can't replace them. And, unlike the meat waves, they need trained specialists onboard and they are all gone now as well.

    Oh, and there is a report of yet another su-34 lost as well, but that one is still a rumour.

  3. #37043
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Oh, and there is a report of yet another su-34 lost as well, but that one is still a rumour.
    wait, that would be number 8?

  4. #37044
    8 or 9 in the last week. Hard to keep track.

    Ukraine is saying they used an upgraded s200 missile that had increased range to bring it down. russia has decided to go with 'we shot down another of our very rare very expensive awacs through friendly fire, again' excuse.

    Given how they have been pushing the message Ukraine is weak they kind of can't admit to losing planes to them. Or ships. Or anything.

  5. #37045
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    8 or 9 in the last week. Hard to keep track.

    Ukraine is saying they used an upgraded s200 missile that had increased range to bring it down. russia has decided to go with 'we shot down another of our very rare very expensive awacs through friendly fire, again' excuse.

    Given how they have been pushing the message Ukraine is weak they kind of can't admit to losing planes to them. Or ships. Or anything.
    Which is funny because they didn't explicitly confirm the first A-50 was brought down by friendly fire, nor did they explicitly deny it was brought down Ukraine. The Kremlin has clearly lost the plot as far as messaging goes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  6. #37046
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Which is funny because they didn't explicitly confirm the first A-50 was brought down by friendly fire, nor did they explicitly deny it was brought down Ukraine. The Kremlin has clearly lost the plot as far as messaging goes.
    Again, Russia is stuck in the dilemma of choosing between "Ukraine is strong enough to threaten us and our aircraft" or "we're so stupid we shot down our own plane." There is no option C.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #37047
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Again, Russia is stuck in the dilemma of choosing between "Ukraine is strong enough to threaten us and our aircraft" or "we're so stupid we shot down our own plane." There is no option C.
    Of course there is, the Option C..IA: blame the US. Too bad Russia is too much of a pussy to take it lmao

  8. #37048
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Of course there is, the Option C..IA: blame the US. Too bad Russia is too much of a pussy to take it lmao
    Ah so by their logic of course the USA is able to project force across the world to strike down Russian aircraft, which big strong Russia is of course retributing by doing... uh... nothing?

    Bad options the whole way down.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  9. #37049
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Ah so by their logic of course the USA is able to project force across the world to strike down Russian aircraft, which big strong Russia is of course retributing by doing... uh... nothing?

    Bad options the whole way down.
    CIA saboteurs taking the plane down is better story for them than Ukrainians doing it tbh. USA would be the safe thing to blame as they know the US won't do shit about Russia just talking shit. Domestically it also looks better to blame someone as strong as the US.

    There was a lot of talk back in the day about how Putin might actually want for the West to collectively push his shit it, so he could withdraw from the clusterfuck of the Ukraine invasion by claiming that Russia is actually fighting the entire West. It would have looked way better for them than getting their dick kicked off by Ukraine.

  10. #37050
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    CIA saboteurs taking the plane down is better story for them than Ukrainians doing it tbh. USA would be the safe thing to blame as they know the US won't do shit about Russia just talking shit. Domestically it also looks better to blame someone as strong as the US.

    There was a lot of talk back in the day about how Putin might actually want for the West to collectively push his shit it, so he could withdraw from the clusterfuck of the Ukraine invasion by claiming that Russia is actually fighting the entire West. It would have looked way better for them than getting their dick kicked off by Ukraine.
    The Dark Biden move would be "I can neither confirm or deny, nor can I confirm or deny we won't do it again."
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  11. #37051
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    CIA saboteurs taking the plane down is better story for them than Ukrainians doing it tbh. USA would be the safe thing to blame as they know the US won't do shit about Russia just talking shit. Domestically it also looks better to blame someone as strong as the US.

    There was a lot of talk back in the day about how Putin might actually want for the West to collectively push his shit it, so he could withdraw from the clusterfuck of the Ukraine invasion by claiming that Russia is actually fighting the entire West. It would have looked way better for them than getting their dick kicked off by Ukraine.
    Since nothing Russia says is true and the people know this aswell, I fail to see why he couldn't withdrawn now and claim its because the entirety of NATO attacked them. I mean they have already been claiming they are fighting the entirety of NATO in Ukraine. They wouldn't even be changing the narrative.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  12. #37052
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Since nothing Russia says is true and the people know this aswell, I fail to see why he couldn't withdrawn now and claim its because the entirety of NATO attacked them. I mean they have already been claiming they are fighting the entirety of NATO in Ukraine. They wouldn't even be changing the narrative.
    I believe his calculus is that he thinks he can still win the war of attrition as long as NATO doesn't actually directly intervene.

  13. #37053
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I believe his calculus is that he thinks he can still win the war of attrition as long as NATO doesn't actually directly intervene.
    well his attempt to stop aid via the US Republican party seems to be working, it makes sense for him to hold out until the US election and see how that shapes the coming 2 years. If Republicans hold power in either chamber then they can further delay aid, if Trump wins the aid just stops entirely, and the Democrats get control of all 3 steps the pressure is going to ramp back up.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  14. #37054
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    8 or 9 in the last week. Hard to keep track.

    Ukraine is saying they used an upgraded s200 missile that had increased range to bring it down. russia has decided to go with 'we shot down another of our very rare very expensive awacs through friendly fire, again' excuse.

    Given how they have been pushing the message Ukraine is weak they kind of can't admit to losing planes to them. Or ships. Or anything.
    BTW was that this one they said was downed or another one?
    https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato...ion-media.html

    Edit:

    I guess so, unless they meant this one...


    But they can always make new ones, right?

    Oh...
    Last edited by Iphie; 2024-02-24 at 05:35 PM.

  15. #37055
    Over 9000! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    But they can always make new ones, right?

    Oh...
    For a second I thought it's a Modern Warfare clip.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  16. #37056
    Interesting opinion

    Ukraine Can’t Win the War
    https://time.com/6695261/ukraine-forever-war-danger/

    For the lost Ukrainian territories are lost, and NATO membership is pointless if the alliance is not prepared to send its own troops to fight for Ukraine against Russia. Above all, however painful a peace agreement would be today, it will be infinitely more so if the war continues and Ukraine is defeated.

  17. #37057
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Interesting opinion

    Ukraine Can’t Win the War
    https://time.com/6695261/ukraine-forever-war-danger/
    Ukraine has won the air war with no meaningful air force and the naval war with no navy. You want to tell me they can’t win a ground war after the lessons of last year, and as Russia is projected to run out of money, equipment and soldiers over the next year?

  18. #37058
    That is ultimately the issue, there are more Russian men than there are Ukrainian and if it comes down to pure attrition, which it is. I don't think they need to completely wipe Russia out but they do need to make it absolutely impractical to continue, that is probably their best option, rather than winning by killing everyone you win by simply making it pointless to keep fighting, or nearly impossible to do effectively. Russia probably won't get that far either seeing as they wouldn't get a supply line to Kyiv, I saw a video the other day where some guy is talking about the supply line being individual dudes carrying 30kg over 15km. That's not going to get them very far, the deeper they actually get into Ukraine, the more they are going to be relying on non-existent supply lines.

  19. #37059
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Interesting opinion

    Ukraine Can’t Win the War
    Weasel article that relies entirely on a semantic debate about the meaning of "winning." Boring.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2024-02-24 at 09:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  20. #37060
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Interesting opinion

    Ukraine Can’t Win the War
    https://time.com/6695261/ukraine-forever-war-danger/
    Interesting opinion indeed.

    Hey speaking of opinions, could you elaborate on the position you held back in the day of Russian S-400 systems being an impenetrable forcefield? How is your opinion on it right now?

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