1. #37061
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    CIA saboteurs taking the plane down is better story for them than Ukrainians doing it tbh. USA would be the safe thing to blame as they know the US won't do shit about Russia just talking shit. Domestically it also looks better to blame someone as strong as the US.

    There was a lot of talk back in the day about how Putin might actually want for the West to collectively push his shit it, so he could withdraw from the clusterfuck of the Ukraine invasion by claiming that Russia is actually fighting the entire West. It would have looked way better for them than getting their dick kicked off by Ukraine.
    Since nothing Russia says is true and the people know this aswell, I fail to see why he couldn't withdrawn now and claim its because the entirety of NATO attacked them. I mean they have already been claiming they are fighting the entirety of NATO in Ukraine. They wouldn't even be changing the narrative.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #37062
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Since nothing Russia says is true and the people know this aswell, I fail to see why he couldn't withdrawn now and claim its because the entirety of NATO attacked them. I mean they have already been claiming they are fighting the entirety of NATO in Ukraine. They wouldn't even be changing the narrative.
    I believe his calculus is that he thinks he can still win the war of attrition as long as NATO doesn't actually directly intervene.

  3. #37063
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I believe his calculus is that he thinks he can still win the war of attrition as long as NATO doesn't actually directly intervene.
    well his attempt to stop aid via the US Republican party seems to be working, it makes sense for him to hold out until the US election and see how that shapes the coming 2 years. If Republicans hold power in either chamber then they can further delay aid, if Trump wins the aid just stops entirely, and the Democrats get control of all 3 steps the pressure is going to ramp back up.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  4. #37064
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    8 or 9 in the last week. Hard to keep track.

    Ukraine is saying they used an upgraded s200 missile that had increased range to bring it down. russia has decided to go with 'we shot down another of our very rare very expensive awacs through friendly fire, again' excuse.

    Given how they have been pushing the message Ukraine is weak they kind of can't admit to losing planes to them. Or ships. Or anything.
    BTW was that this one they said was downed or another one?
    https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato...ion-media.html

    Edit:

    I guess so, unless they meant this one...


    But they can always make new ones, right?

    Oh...
    Last edited by Iphie; 2024-02-24 at 05:35 PM.

  5. #37065
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    But they can always make new ones, right?

    Oh...
    For a second I thought it's a Modern Warfare clip.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  6. #37066
    Interesting opinion

    Ukraine Can’t Win the War
    https://time.com/6695261/ukraine-forever-war-danger/

    For the lost Ukrainian territories are lost, and NATO membership is pointless if the alliance is not prepared to send its own troops to fight for Ukraine against Russia. Above all, however painful a peace agreement would be today, it will be infinitely more so if the war continues and Ukraine is defeated.

  7. #37067
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Interesting opinion

    Ukraine Can’t Win the War
    https://time.com/6695261/ukraine-forever-war-danger/
    Ukraine has won the air war with no meaningful air force and the naval war with no navy. You want to tell me they can’t win a ground war after the lessons of last year, and as Russia is projected to run out of money, equipment and soldiers over the next year?

  8. #37068
    That is ultimately the issue, there are more Russian men than there are Ukrainian and if it comes down to pure attrition, which it is. I don't think they need to completely wipe Russia out but they do need to make it absolutely impractical to continue, that is probably their best option, rather than winning by killing everyone you win by simply making it pointless to keep fighting, or nearly impossible to do effectively. Russia probably won't get that far either seeing as they wouldn't get a supply line to Kyiv, I saw a video the other day where some guy is talking about the supply line being individual dudes carrying 30kg over 15km. That's not going to get them very far, the deeper they actually get into Ukraine, the more they are going to be relying on non-existent supply lines.

  9. #37069
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Interesting opinion

    Ukraine Can’t Win the War
    Weasel article that relies entirely on a semantic debate about the meaning of "winning." Boring.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2024-02-24 at 09:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  10. #37070
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Interesting opinion

    Ukraine Can’t Win the War
    https://time.com/6695261/ukraine-forever-war-danger/
    Interesting opinion indeed.

    Hey speaking of opinions, could you elaborate on the position you held back in the day of Russian S-400 systems being an impenetrable forcefield? How is your opinion on it right now?

  11. #37071
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I believe his calculus is that he thinks he can still win the war of attrition as long as NATO doesn't actually directly intervene.
    The longer this goes on the more I think NATO actually should put an end to this with direct intervention.

    All this talk of "ruSSia can't win" and then feeding Ukraine just enough to hold up this shitshow a bit longer is becoming increasingly irritating. This is only prolonging the time until NATO has to intervene, because if NATO actually means "ruSSia can't win" we should make sure that'll be the outcome. Ukrainians are fighting and dying for two years now so I can sit at home and play WoW and I'm really sad for them.

  12. #37072
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    The longer this goes on the more I think NATO actually should put an end to this with direct intervention.

    All this talk of "ruSSia can't win" and then feeding Ukraine just enough to hold up this shitshow a bit longer is becoming increasingly irritating. This is only prolonging the time until NATO has to intervene, because if NATO actually means "ruSSia can't win" we should make sure that'll be the outcome. Ukrainians are fighting and dying for two years now so I can sit at home and play WoW and I'm really sad for them.
    As soon as NATO directly intervenes, it will feed russian narrative.

  13. #37073
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    The longer this goes on the more I think NATO actually should put an end to this with direct intervention.

    All this talk of "ruSSia can't win" and then feeding Ukraine just enough to hold up this shitshow a bit longer is becoming increasingly irritating. This is only prolonging the time until NATO has to intervene, because if NATO actually means "ruSSia can't win" we should make sure that'll be the outcome. Ukrainians are fighting and dying for two years now so I can sit at home and play WoW and I'm really sad for them.
    A real good way to escalate this entire thing which is the exact thing NATO wants to avoid! We are staying back to not turn this into a larger war while still clearly being on one side of the conflict

  14. #37074
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    As soon as NATO directly intervenes, it will feed russian narrative.
    and we should care about that because?
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  15. #37075
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    As soon as NATO directly intervenes, it will feed russian narrative.
    That's not an issue. The Russian narrative exists mostly for internal consumption, with the tankies and US Republican politicians that swallow it hook, line and sinker being useful idiots but not the primary audience. And as we've seen with Putin's interview it is based on a mostly evidence-proof pile of nationalistic tropes. Whenever NATO acts aggressively against Russia changes little to Russia's outlook towards NATO which they see as a bully due to its mere existence stopping them from bullying others into line.

    What IS an actual issue, is escalation. No one, neither Russia nor anyone in NATO, wants a conflict taking place in one country to spill over. That's several steps too far, especially when you consider that Russia has nukes. No, I'm not pulling a Yuppie and fapping over them using the things at the slightest provocation out of some morbid fetish. But there's a reason nuclear-armed nations don't enter into armed conflicts directly. And intervention from NATO states against the Russian army is far too close to a direct conflict for comfort. There's a reason Putin hasn't even tried to disrupt weapon shipments to Ukraine, he knows attacking NATO assets is a big no-no, and the reserve is also true.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

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  16. #37076
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    As soon as NATO directly intervenes, it will feed russian narrative.
    Oh no? The fuck does the rest of the world care about what some Russian oligarchs say?

    Dontrike/Shadow Priest/Black Cell Faction Friend Code - 5172-0967-3866

  17. #37077
    Quote Originally Posted by Odinfrost View Post
    A real good way to escalate this entire thing which is the exact thing NATO wants to avoid! We are staying back to not turn this into a larger war while still clearly being on one side of the conflict
    As I see it the only question is when and not if NATO has to directly fight ruSSia. The only case it doesn't happen is if ruSSia says "well it was worth a try we give up" and gets the fuck out of Ukraine. So why wait? Ahh I forgot the arms industry has to squeeze as much profit out of the conflict as possible.

  18. #37078
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    The longer this goes on the more I think NATO actually should put an end to this with direct intervention.

    All this talk of "ruSSia can't win" and then feeding Ukraine just enough to hold up this shitshow a bit longer is becoming increasingly irritating. This is only prolonging the time until NATO has to intervene, because if NATO actually means "ruSSia can't win" we should make sure that'll be the outcome. Ukrainians are fighting and dying for two years now so I can sit at home and play WoW and I'm really sad for them.
    It probably wouldn’t last long, but even without nukes Russia could still hit stuff in the US and Western Europe with their navy and long range bombers. Never mind that they have FSB crawling all over the place to do some terrorism. Suffice to say the damage they could do would be politically unpopular as futile as it might be.

  19. #37079
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    and we should care about that because?
    If NATO was to attack "unprovoked" (because that's what it would be), that would validate one of the arguments that was used to start this shitshow. Like NATO is an aggressive alliance, yada, yada. And that would also escalate the conflict even further (something that no one wants, maybe apart from the Ukrainians given the mess they are in).

  20. #37080
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    If NATO was to attack "unprovoked" (because that's what it would be), that would validate one of the arguments that was used to start this shitshow. Like NATO is an aggressive alliance, yada, yada. And that would also escalate the conflict even further (something that no one wants, maybe apart from the Ukrainians given the mess they are in).
    Russia is a-okay to genocide Ukraine, and that's fine for some nations because of the tinfoil hat level shit they believe, but helping Ukraine to not be wiped out entirely is worse. Yeah, you're right, that's the shit part of the world. Some entities have more leverage than others.

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