Russian invasion of Ukraine

[diller]

Ukraine is like half a step from being NATO, so any notion that we’re doing “more than we should” is absurd

It's not absurd it's facts, Ukraine is not a part of NATO we are not obliged to help, and as I'm pretty sure you can tell I'm all for helping Ukraine.

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And no, I don’t think Russia is afraid of being glassed because there’s no world in which NATO actually uses those weapons first and they know it. It’s an excuse that plays well at home for your typical fascist “everything sucks here because of those guys over there” bullshit.

Who's talking about NATO using weapons first, my point was if Russia drops a nuke against some NATO country they will be glassed that is a deterrence in itself.

[Iphie]

St. Peterburgians shouldn't smoke.

[Gabriel]

US asked China and India for help to prevent Russia from carrying out a nuclear strike in 2022, report says

Exclusive: US prepared ‘rigorously’ for potential Russian nuclear strike in Ukraine in late 2022, officials say

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_K...unteroffensive

Called it. Remember the weeks where no Russian missiles were launched, and then there was a huge attack with a missile carrying a dummy warhead?
It was a fucking test to see if they can overwhelm Ukraine's defenses and deliver a nuke.
And then afterwards, suddenly, there was an attack on a russian airbase far outside the reach of Ukrainian attacks. Suddenly, the US okay'd Patriot.
The three letter agencies prevented a nuclear escalation. That's what Putin means when he talks about the "Anglo Saxons" - they bombed his bombers.

Can't we just BTFO the Russian invaders with joint NATO effort already?

[Iphie]

I have literally 0 issue with the US, China and India working together to prevent such nonsense from happening.

[Saradain]

Can't we just BTFO the Russian invaders with joint NATO effort already?

If it includes Crimea and all, I'm all in for that. Fuck giving anything to nazi orcs, kill them all! You settling ukrainian lands? Too fucking bad, you either leave willingly, or you get pushed out.

[alach]

I agree. I said before, Putins already telling his people they are at war with NATO, nothing to lose making it true.
Problem is, with what? Europe's not yet organized enough, and the Americans are blocked by Maga.

...

Actually isn't there a huge nato exercise happening right now somewhere in north Europe. That would about do it.

[Jessicka]

It's not absurd it's facts, Ukraine is not a part of NATO we are not obliged to help, and as I'm pretty sure you can tell I'm all for helping Ukraine.

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Who's talking about NATO using weapons first, my point was if Russia drops a nuke against some NATO country they will be glassed that is a deterrence in itself.

I suppose technically correct is the best kind of correct, putting aside the numerous multilateral verbal assurances, the billions in aid already provided long before the invasion and the strategic obligations to our own populations.

And you suggesting that “Russia IS afraid of the west glassing them” is where I got the notion that someone somewhere seems to think Russia might think it could happen.

[Iphie]

And you suggesting that “Russia IS afraid of the west glassing them” is where I got the notion that someone somewhere seems to think Russia might think it could happen.

I should hope that at least everyone with their fingers on the buttons not named "putin" think it could happen if they launched. (and I hope putin knows that as well.)

[Jessicka]

I should hope that at least everyone with their fingers on the buttons not named "putin" think it could happen if they launched. (and I hope putin knows that as well.)

Honestly I doubt we’d even launch if they “only” dropped a couple of tactical warheads. Doubtless it would provoke a massive response that would be the end of Russia as a military power, but not a nuclear one. That would itself would be enough to discourage Putin, he knows now for absolutely certain he couldn’t take on a fraction of NATO in a conventional war.

[Iphie]

US asked China and India for help to prevent Russia from carrying out a nuclear strike in 2022, report says

Exclusive: US prepared ‘rigorously’ for potential Russian nuclear strike in Ukraine in late 2022, officials say

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_K...unteroffensive

Can't we just BTFO the Russian invaders with joint NATO effort already?

Apart from having no issues with cooperation on this front I also regard it as a positive that China and India CAN have this sway on russia. (if true)

[Gorsameth]

Probably the one thing you can get the entire world to agree on is that the nuclear Pandora's box should stay firmly closed. No one is going to accept anyone else using a nuclear weapon. period Full stop.

[Iphie]

Still positive that russia listens, since that's not a given. Everyone else I trust (yes even North Korea) to be not stupid about it.

[Kaleredar]

Still positive that russia listens, since that's not a given. Everyone else I trust (yes even North Korea) to be not stupid about it.

Putin is hiding in a bunker because he fears assassination from without and within. He's purging dissidents and having political rivals killed because he's afraid of the tide turning against him. And he's conducting this war in an attempt to build a new Europe-spanning USSR.

This is a deeply paranoid and fearful man driven by his own vanity, fearful chiefly for his own life and vane in purpose of wanting to be the next Stalin of a reforged USSR. He doesn't want to die, period, let alone in a nuclear fireball.

[Gabriel]

Honestly I doubt we’d even launch if they “only” dropped a couple of tactical warheads. Doubtless it would provoke a massive response that would be the end of Russia as a military power, but not a nuclear one. That would itself would be enough to discourage Putin, he knows now for absolutely certain he couldn’t take on a fraction of NATO in a conventional war.

That could backfire spectacularly, as now the only option he has left is nuclear.

Just glass Russia if they launch even a tiny nuke at someone.

[diller]

That could backfire spectacularly, as now the only option he has left is nuclear.

Just glass Russia if they launch even a tiny nuke at someone.

I agree, if any NATO country is hit with a nuke we just flat out glass like 5 of their major cities, again I don't think it will happen despite Putin being a lunatic, I still think someone in his inner circle will stop him if he tries.

[Iphie]

I agree, if any NATO country is hit with a nuke we just flat out glass like 5 of their major cities, again I don't think it will happen despite Putin being a lunatic, I still think someone in his inner circle will stop him if he tries.

5 of their major cities? My man you only need two to totally annihilate russia as a factor, and any others are inconsequential. (Moscow and St. Petersburg are the ones, if you look at a population density chart it's not even funny how concentrated the russian population is.)

As for stopping him? *IF* russia's systems are still in place there's at least 20-30 people who must agree on a strike (putin, shoigu, gerashimov, then the generals), and then a written order must make it's way to the actual commanding officer who still can say "no". it's not like in the US where the pres can just order a strike on his/her own.

[Gabriel]

I agree, if any NATO country is hit with a nuke we just flat out glass like 5 of their major cities, again I don't think it will happen despite Putin being a lunatic, I still think someone in his inner circle will stop him if he tries.

m8 I don't think they have 3 "major" cities.

[Iphie]

m8 I don't think they have 3 "major" cities.

Well... they do have 36 with more than 500000, out of which 16 with more than 1 million out of which 2 with more than 2 million. (No prizes for guessing which.) But that just shows how concentrated the population really is and how you really only need to destroy 2.

[Gabriel]

Well... they do have 36 with more than 500000, out of which 16 with more than 1 million out of which 2 with more than 2 million. (No prizes for guessing which.) But that just shows how concentrated the population really is and how you really only need to destroy 2.

None of the others really matter beyond Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Tho tbh NATO wouldn't be glassing cities on purpose anyway. Moscow would be hit because that's where the Kremlin is, but hitting civilian centers for the sake of killing civilians is not something that any competent nuke user would do.

[Iphie]

None of the others really matter beyond Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Tho tbh NATO wouldn't be glassing cities on purpose anyway. Moscow would be hit because that's where the Kremlin is, but hitting civilian centers for the sake of killing civilians is not something that any competent nuke user would do.

You know, there's two opposing schools of thought on this, countervalue and counterforce, countervalue is deliberately targeting civilian populations, it is prohibited of course but I bet russia is a proponent of countervalue. (To be sure both have their...merits...and drawbacks.)