Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Iphie]

"Backing down"? Those fuckers were offered precisely that and rejected it because His Lord Almighty Donald Trump, First of His Name, didn't want them to pass anything that would make Satan Incarnate, Joe "the Devil" Biden look good.

I mean soon they can't anymore anyway, the majority is like what? 1 or 2? So if they'd lose one or two more (as was implied by the last guy to leave, Ken something-or-other, from Colorado's 4th (?) district) it doesn't matter anymore and then the Dems can pass all those things which Donny would campaign on.

[DarkTZeratul]

I mean soon they can't anymore anyway, the majority is like what? 1 or 2? So if they'd lose one or two more (as was implied by the last guy to leave, Ken something-or-other, from Colorado's 4th (?) district) it doesn't matter anymore and then the Dems can pass all those things which Donny would campaign on.

How much do you want to bet that the two are connected?

[diller]

How much do you want to bet that the two are connected?

So you think the sudden willingness is to avoid getting embarrassed?

[DarkTZeratul]

So you think the sudden willingness is to avoid getting embarrassed?

I mean that the House failing to pass even the bills that give them what they want because Trump told them not to and more moderate-leaning Republicans suddenly departing in droves may be connected.

But... I suppose this is a bit off-topic, since this is the Russia thread. So all I'll say is good on 'em for actually maybe passing this, finally.

[Iphie]

How much do you want to bet that the two are connected?

No deal, I can't afford to lose money! (So yeah, I'm pretty sure they are 100% connected.)

[Corvus]

Another refinery hit, at Kaluga.

Was reading an explanation on what is going on. Hitting the refineries isn't just about denying output. The whole industry is a web of pipes and refineries. The oil has to keep flowing but if enough refineries are damaged the flow slows and hardens and clogs up the pipes. And if enough of the happens the wells stop pumping. Last time that happened it took them years and a lot of western expertise and equipment to get them working again.

[Gabriel]

Another refinery hit, at Kaluga.

Was reading an explanation on what is going on. Hitting the refineries isn't just about denying output. The whole industry is a web of pipes and refineries. The oil has to keep flowing but if enough refineries are damaged the flow slows and hardens and clogs up the pipes. And if enough of the happens the wells stop pumping. Last time that happened it took them years and a lot of western expertise and equipment to get them working again.

Iirc if the wells in the permafrost area in Siberia have to halt production, they will freeze shut, and Russians can't get them open without western tech.

[Biglog]

I think most here are aware, but one public misconception I've noticed is that many people see the big $ aid numbers and think the US is cutting Ukraine a check for that amount. That's not the case. If they get $x in aid, it means they are getting rockets, guns, ammo, etc. that has been sitting in storage, usually for several decades roughly estimated to cost that amount. It's also taken from the oldest stock in inventory closest to being obsolete. Granted those inventories will need to be replenished on the other end. But it's not really a 1:1 swap.

Or to give a specific example, we send Ukraine a rocket built in 1992 that's gen 1, that was due to be obsoleted soon anyway. We have to replace that rocket in inventory, but it'll get replaced with a new 2024 gen 4 rocket, built by employees today. So there is definitely a cost to the aid but it's not like for like, and at the end of the day US defense is in a better place anyway with a 2024 Corvette in the driveway vs. a 1992 Honda Civic.

[D Luniz]

I think most here are aware, but one public misconception I've noticed is that many people see the big $ aid numbers and think the US is cutting Ukraine a check for that amount. That's not the case. If they get $x in aid, it means they are getting rockets, guns, ammo, etc. that has been sitting in storage, usually for several decades roughly estimated to cost that amount. It's also taken from the oldest stock in inventory closest to being obsolete. Granted those inventories will need to be replenished on the other end. But it's not really a 1:1 swap.

Or to give a specific example, we send Ukraine a rocket built in 1992 that's gen 1, that was due to be obsoleted soon anyway. We have to replace that rocket in inventory, but it'll get replaced with a new 2024 gen 4 rocket, built by employees today. So there is definitely a cost to the aid but it's not like for like, and at the end of the day US defense is in a better place anyway with a 2024 Corvette in the driveway vs. a 1992 Honda Civic.

yup, pretty much is a stimulus package for US arms factories

[Iphie]

Iirc if the wells in the permafrost area in Siberia have to halt production, they will freeze shut, and Russians can't get them open without western tech.

I think that's' a bit exaggerated, yes with western tech it could be done much more effective and efficient but I'm sure they'll get there...eventually...until then frozen pipes are bad, bad, bad, bad and I'm sure India and China will be ABSOLUTELY thrilled when russia fails to deliver. (thought they're liable to blame Ukraine)

[Jessicka]

I think that's' a bit exaggerated, yes with western tech it could be done much more effective and efficient but I'm sure they'll get there...eventually...until then frozen pipes are bad, bad, bad, bad and I'm sure India and China will be ABSOLUTELY thrilled when russia fails to deliver. (thought they're liable to blame Ukraine)

India are neutral enough to play all sides, while China's might blame Ukraine to Russia's face, but they'll exploit them until there's nothing left to take. These aren't countries I'd take on as 'dependable allies'. Russia isn't getting any stronger in those relations and they'll use that for all its worth.

[Iphie]

India are neutral enough to play all sides, while China's might blame Ukraine to Russia's face, but they'll exploit them until there's nothing left to take. These aren't countries I'd take on as 'dependable allies'. Russia isn't getting any stronger in those relations and they'll use that for all its worth.

I didn't say anything about 'dependable', in fact they're anything but to russia. I just said they might blame Ukraine publicly.

[Deus Mortis]

I think most here are aware, but one public misconception I've noticed is that many people see the big $ aid numbers and think the US is cutting Ukraine a check for that amount. That's not the case. If they get $x in aid, it means they are getting rockets, guns, ammo, etc. that has been sitting in storage, usually for several decades roughly estimated to cost that amount. It's also taken from the oldest stock in inventory closest to being obsolete. Granted those inventories will need to be replenished on the other end. But it's not really a 1:1 swap.

Or to give a specific example, we send Ukraine a rocket built in 1992 that's gen 1, that was due to be obsoleted soon anyway. We have to replace that rocket in inventory, but it'll get replaced with a new 2024 gen 4 rocket, built by employees today. So there is definitely a cost to the aid but it's not like for like, and at the end of the day US defense is in a better place anyway with a 2024 Corvette in the driveway vs. a 1992 Honda Civic.

Yeah that is one thing that has annoyed me about this conflict, I have had to correct a couple people I know in real life about what that means. The problem I think could of been more easily avoided if the headlines changed how they went about it, instead of leading with $40bil aid deal, say Military equipment package passed, and then in the article state that all the military equipment is worth $40bil. While bad faith right leaning sites will still not explain to their readers, I think it overall would of lessened the spread of the belief that we are just giving them $40bil in cash. Each article needs to also explain we are giving equipment about to expire, and it is literally cheaper for us to give it to Ukraine then to dispose of it ourselves in the proper manner. I think this would go a long ways in helping the less informed who only passively follower this war.

[Jessicka]

Yeah that is one thing that has annoyed me about this conflict, I have had to correct a couple people I know in real life about what that means. The problem I think could of been more easily avoided if the headlines changed how they went about it, instead of leading with $40bil aid deal, say Military equipment package passed, and then in the article state that all the military equipment is worth $40bil. While bad faith right leaning sites will still not explain to their readers, I think it overall would of lessened the spread of the belief that we are just giving them $40bil in cash. Each article needs to also explain we are giving equipment about to expire, and it is literally cheaper for us to give it to Ukraine then to dispose of it ourselves in the proper manner. I think this would go a long ways in helping the less informed who only passively follower this war.

It's because it is more complex than painting it as just cash, or just cash equivalent of old kit etc. Ukraine's own domestic weapon production and development, especially in terms of drones got a huge boost from various aid packages as well, so its very much a mixture and that makes it hard to unpick in a manner anyone is actually going to read and more importantly, actually pay attention to. Cash value, or number of tanks is what gets reported because its easy to spell out, so that's what happens.

[Corvus]

2 more refineries reportedly struck.

https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/dron...710566348.html

[Gabriel]

2 more refineries reportedly struck.

https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/dron...710566348.html

Thoughts and prayers.

[Kaleredar]

Thoughts and prayers.

And apparently this is all going on amid Russia’s elections.

Unfortunately however, even if Russia’s elections weren’t a dog-and-pony show scam, I’m fairly certain Putin would still win easily.

[zealo]

And apparently this is all going on amid Russia’s elections.

Unfortunately however, even if Russia’s elections weren’t a dog-and-pony show scam, I’m fairly certain Putin would still win easily.

Russia doesn't have anything deserving to be called an election anyway, it's all an elaborate national ritual of subjecting the populace to taking part in reaffirming their own submission to their ruling class.

[Kaleredar]

Russia doesn't have anything deserving to be called an election anyway, it's all an elaborate national ritual of subjecting the populace to taking part in reaffirming their own submission to their ruling class.

Indeed, hence the "dog-and-pony show." And like I said... I don't think Russia's national perception of their invasion of Ukraine would have been negative enough to oust Putin, even if the elections were real. If the population doesn't outright promote it, the rest of them, largely, are content to be apathetic towards it.

So it's good that Ukraine is striking more and more prominently at military infrastructure in Russia. Start making this less of a "one way" war and weigh a bit more heavily on the minds of Russia's citizens.

[Poopymonster]

Russia doesn't have anything deserving to be called an election anyway, it's all an elaborate national ritual of subjecting the populace to taking part in reaffirming their own submission to their ruling class.

Exit poll reporting:
55% of people voted for Putin.
38% of people voted for Putin twice.
7% of people fell out of windows.