1. #37541
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Russia doesn't have anything deserving to be called an election anyway, it's all an elaborate national ritual of subjecting the populace to taking part in reaffirming their own submission to their ruling class.
    Indeed, hence the "dog-and-pony show." And like I said... I don't think Russia's national perception of their invasion of Ukraine would have been negative enough to oust Putin, even if the elections were real. If the population doesn't outright promote it, the rest of them, largely, are content to be apathetic towards it.

    So it's good that Ukraine is striking more and more prominently at military infrastructure in Russia. Start making this less of a "one way" war and weigh a bit more heavily on the minds of Russia's citizens.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2024-03-16 at 09:35 PM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #37542
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Russia doesn't have anything deserving to be called an election anyway, it's all an elaborate national ritual of subjecting the populace to taking part in reaffirming their own submission to their ruling class.
    Exit poll reporting:
    55% of people voted for Putin.
    38% of people voted for Putin twice.
    7% of people fell out of windows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  3. #37543
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    Exit poll reporting:
    55% of people voted for Putin.
    38% of people voted for Putin twice.
    7% of people fell out of windows.
    Those who only voted for Putin once are to be conscripted for the 3 day special military operation.

  4. #37544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Those who only voted for Putin once are to be conscripted for the 3 day special military operation.
    It is a 3 day special military operation when your training, deployment and time of death all fits within the span of 3 days. Russia yet has to find a way to utilize the dead in warfare.

  5. #37545
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quite a few stories of Russians throwing Molotov cocktails, paint and ink on ballot boxes. It won't matter but these people do seem to disagree with pootpoot.

  6. #37546
    Finnish foreign minister Valtonen has come out saying that deploying NATO troops into Ukraine should not be excluded from decisions on how to aid Ukraine further. Seems like that despite some notable cowardly nay-sayers there are substantial amount of pro-presence countries.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  7. #37547
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Finnish foreign minister Valtonen has come out saying that deploying NATO troops into Ukraine should not be excluded from decisions on how to aid Ukraine further. Seems like that despite some notable cowardly nay-sayers there are substantial amount of pro-presence countries.
    Are we forgetting the lessons of the cold war? The fate of humanity is too important to allow nuclear powers to get into a position where a shooting match is likely because the Cold War showed that there is only one actual outcome that will happen.

  8. #37548
    Banned Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Because as it stands, does NATO have any nukes committed to it ? I do not think so unless I am mistaken.
    https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2...nuclear-en.pdf


    Looks like you are mistaken.

  9. #37549
    Yet another refinery struck. russia seems incapable of stopping it.

    Ukraine can reportedly make 3 of those 1000km drones a day, and 30 of the medium range ones so this campaign isn't ending anytime soon.

  10. #37550
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Yet another refinery struck. russia seems incapable of stopping it.

    Ukraine can reportedly make 3 of those 1000km drones a day, and 30 of the medium range ones so this campaign isn't ending anytime soon.
    To stop that, they have to shoot down the satellites that those drones use to navigate, which means war with NATO

  11. #37551
    Ir seems Ukraine isnt just trying to do random damage to the refineries, which russia might be able to brute force repairs to, but are aiming for the cracking towers, the most expensive and hard to replace part of the whole thing.

    I've read a number of people who say they work in the industry that the cracking towers have to be specifically designed for each refinery and they take at least 18 months to make. Probably longer in the current climate.

    The campaign does seem to be having some effect as russia has again banned export of petrol, and despite that price have hit a 6 month high. There will be some lag time before the effects really become known.

    Even before the attacks, there was no lot of speculation that russia would have to import petrol soon. Kind of embarrassing for a petrostate. No doubt China or India will import cheap oil, refine it, then sell it back to russia at a significant cost increase.

  12. #37552
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Are we forgetting the lessons of the cold war? The fate of humanity is too important to allow nuclear powers to get into a position where a shooting match is likely because the Cold War showed that there is only one actual outcome that will happen.
    Then Russia should really be the bigger man here and stop all of this escalation.

    The only reason NATO gives a flying fig about what's going on with Russia is that they attempted a bald-faced invasion of a sovereign country.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  13. #37553
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Not really, there are three countries with nuclear weapons in NATO and they keep control over those according to what I could find.

    The NPG is mostly consultative and France is not even a part of it.

  14. #37554
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    Exit poll reporting:
    55% of people voted for Putin.
    38% of people voted for Putin twice.
    7% of people fell out of windows.
    Fake news! That only makes 100% voter turnout. You'll be window accidented for reporting anything short of 125%.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Are we forgetting the lessons of the cold war? The fate of humanity is too important to allow nuclear powers to get into a position where a shooting match is likely because the Cold War showed that there is only one actual outcome that will happen.
    No one reasonable believes that nuclear annihilation of RuZZia and the West is the immediate outcome of RuZZia losing a war of aggression outside of it's own territory. Regardless of whether it's Ukraine or NATO that kicks RuZZia back behind it's own borders.

    Interesting fantasy though. Are you saying that you would gladly blow up yourself, your house, your neighbors house and the family, over being denied stealing said neighbors backyard, and simply being told to be content with what you own (no loss, no penalty, just denied the parts you attempted to steal)?

    PS. By the way, speaking of cold war lessons: Launch orders were already disobeyed at least once by soviet troop, when the threat of US missile launch towards RuZZia wasn't clear enough (because it didn't happen, and was radar problems). Basically, it's evident the troops don't want to blow up everyone for shits and giggles, when something isn't evidently about to blow up their homes.
    Last edited by Azadina; 2024-03-17 at 09:24 AM.
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    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  15. #37555
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    It is a 3 day special military operation when your training, deployment and time of death all fits within the span of 3 days. Russia yet has to find a way to utilize the dead in warfare.
    Russia saw the concept of Helldivers and went "Now that's an idea but save on the equipment costs by like, not giving them any"

  16. #37556
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    To stop that, they have to shoot down the satellites that those drones use to navigate, which means war with NATO
    They’d probably have to switch off GLONASS as well.

  17. #37557
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    They’d probably have to switch off GLONASS as well.
    And Galileo as well. Btw, GLONASS is falling apart all on it's own so they don't need to worry about that ...

  18. #37558
    Banned Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Not really, there are three countries with nuclear weapons in NATO and they keep control over those according to what I could find.

    The NPG is mostly consultative and France is not even a part of it.
    I read that as if NATO agreed to use nukes they would launch a nuke.

  19. #37559
    I don't think that we will use a nuke, even if Russia nukes Ukraine. The reason behind that is that the question then becomes: Is it worth it to lose Paris, Washington, London, for Moscow? Nope, not really. There might be a massive conventional reaponse which might lead to nuking each other but I am pretty sure our leaders understand what's at stake.

    Recent hawkish statements from France is just politics imho. He needs to show that he isn't a pushover.

  20. #37560
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    I don't think that we will use a nuke, even if Russia nukes Ukraine. The reason behind that is that the question then becomes: Is it worth it to lose Paris, Washington, London, for Moscow? Nope, not really. There might be a massive conventional reaponse which might lead to nuking each other but I am pretty sure our leaders understand what's at stake.

    Recent hawkish statements from France is just politics imho. He needs to show that he isn't a pushover.
    So what you essentially mean: let Russia nuke, if we do the same, we're the bad guys. You utterly forgot that if the civilized world just casually allows a nuclear strike, it's a sign for the entire world that it is alright to do. And if someone does, then intervening or threatening with similar fate will be seen as the evil West acting like a world police again.

    Nope. If Russia nukes Ukraine, there will be hell to pay and the Pandora's box will be opened for good. Russia knows this very well. If they nuke, they can be nuked and no one has a right to act holier-than-thou. And any "end of the world" scenario would be entirely and utterly Russia's fault. Not the West's even if they retaliate with same response.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Besides...you know. If Russia uses a nuclear weapon, its effects would lead to radiation-related harm to Europe that is not a participant in the war. You really think Russia declaring war on Europe (and NATO) means we're gonna play nice? Or that we would just let Russia poison our allies for fun?

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