Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Draco-Onis]

So what you essentially mean: let Russia nuke, if we do the same, we're the bad guys. You utterly forgot that if the civilized world just casually allows a nuclear strike, it's a sign for the entire world that it is alright to do. And if someone does, then intervening or threatening with similar fate will be seen as the evil West acting like a world police again.

Nope. If Russia nukes Ukraine, there will be hell to pay and the Pandora's box will be opened for good. Russia knows this very well. If they nuke, they can be nuked and no one has a right to act holier-than-thou. And any "end of the world" scenario would be entirely and utterly Russia's fault. Not the West's even if they retaliate with same response.

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Besides...you know. If Russia uses a nuclear weapon, its effects would lead to radiation-related harm to Europe that is not a participant in the war. You really think Russia declaring war on Europe (and NATO) means we're gonna play nice? Or that we would just let Russia poison our allies for fun?

I disagree I think the main thing nukes would defeat their narrative internally and domestically not to mention not meet their goal of conquering useful territory. Any semblance that there is a limit on nuclear used was blown to pieces by the first use of it on civilians by the US as a genocidal act. That's also a narrative weapon that most countries still love to use against us especially Russia. The reason that nukes are last resort is because most conquering countries don't want to wait decades and spend billions cleaning up to use the mess afterwards.

[Saradain]

I disagree I think the main thing nukes would defeat their narrative internally and domestically not to mention not meet their goal of conquering useful territory. Any semblance that there is a limit on nuclear used was blown to pieces by the first use of it on civilians by the US as a genocidal act. That's also a narrative weapon that most countries still love to use against us especially Russia. The reason that nukes are last resort is because most conquering countries don't want to wait decades and spend billions cleaning up to use the mess afterwards.

So what now, the usual whataboutism? USA did this or that, now everyone is totally a-okay to do the same? Or will we learn from history that some weapons we created should have remained uncreated?

[Draco-Onis]

So what now, the usual whataboutism? USA did this or that, now everyone is totally a-okay to do the same? Or will we learn from history that some weapons we created should have remained uncreated?

I think we are afraid of the wrong thing, Nuclear weapons remain last resort because no country can control the wind or wants to deal with the aftermath. We've evolved since then and made worse things for example biological weapons, nukes are far too crude to be used for anything other than rhetoric and a dick measuring contest. We learned from history just got the wrong lessons I say.

[Ulmita]

So what you essentially mean: let Russia nuke, if we do the same, we're the bad guys. You utterly forgot that if the civilized world just casually allows a nuclear strike, it's a sign for the entire world that it is alright to do. And if someone does, then intervening or threatening with similar fate will be seen as the evil West acting like a world police again.

Nope. If Russia nukes Ukraine, there will be hell to pay and the Pandora's box will be opened for good. Russia knows this very well. If they nuke, they can be nuked and no one has a right to act holier-than-thou. And any "end of the world" scenario would be entirely and utterly Russia's fault. Not the West's even if they retaliate with same response.

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Besides...you know. If Russia uses a nuclear weapon, its effects would lead to radiation-related harm to Europe that is not a participant in the war. You really think Russia declaring war on Europe (and NATO) means we're gonna play nice? Or that we would just let Russia poison our allies for fun?

All I am saying here is that noone will trade 31T+ for 2.2T (GDP numbers), for a non EU - NA - NATO country. I am not discussing if it's right or wrong.

[Gorsameth]

All I am saying here is that noone will trade 31T+ for 2.2T (GDP numbers), for a non EU - NA - NATO country. I am not discussing if it's right or wrong.

Literally everyone will.
Not a single country in the world is going to allow that Pandora's box to be opened (again). Not one.

[Wilian]

Are we forgetting the lessons of the cold war? The fate of humanity is too important to allow nuclear powers to get into a position where a shooting match is likely because the Cold War showed that there is only one actual outcome that will happen.

Clearly you are forgetting Cold War lessons. During Cold War, Russia was kept in bay by hard power, not by self-inserted red lines. Berlin crisis wasn't solved by giving Berlin to Soviets. Cuban crisis didn't end with letting Russia insert missiles into Cuba.The sole reason Ukraine war even is a thing right now is because West collectively refused to see what Russia is and act on what they did by 2014 and if we had aided Ukraine sufficiently and with real power and threat behind it, Russia would've not attacked.

Instead we gave them the power to dictate any rule of engagement and red line. It's time to get over that and call out their bluff, Russia will not end the world over Ukraine.

[Corvus]

Pootie is claiming an 88% vote in the elections. Totally no ballot stuffing or being forced to vote at gunpoint.

And in his victory speech he promised more war and even more military spending.

[Gaidax]

He does not need to stuff anything, he ran vs cherrypicked clowns.

[Elder Millennial]

He does not need to stuff anything, he ran vs cherrypicked clowns.

He absolutely fucking stuffed it.

Whatever the number was, it wasn't fucking 88%.

That number is completely made up.

Not to mention that it fits into this weird "trend" where everytime he runs for re-election he wins by a 10% increase over his previous run, clearly intending to suggest that he's just doing better and better.

[Azadina]

He absolutely fucking stuffed it.

Whatever the number was, it wasn't fucking 88%.

That number is completely made up.

Not to mention that it fits into this weird "trend" where everytime he runs for re-election he wins by a 10% increase over his previous run, clearly intending to suggest that he's just doing better and better.

Of all the numbers he could have picked, of course he does 88%. Other numbers just don't have the same.....flavor.

[Gigantique]

Of all the numbers he could have picked, of course he does 88%. Other numbers just don't have the same.....flavor.

Well, if you think about it it's very smart and bigly clever: anything above 90% is too obvious, 89% is just you obviously taking 90% and removing 1% and 87% is too far away from 90%.

[diller]

I think most here are aware, but one public misconception I've noticed is that many people see the big $ aid numbers and think the US is cutting Ukraine a check for that amount.

The same is the case for all other countries donating weapons/ammo - BUT it also means those countries will have to buy news stuff sooner so it is an expense.

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Fake news! That only makes 100% voter turnout. You'll be window accidented for reporting anything short of 125%.

I think that is included in the people that voted twice already

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I don't think that we will use a nuke, even if Russia nukes Ukraine.

I think it's a real possibility actually.

[Gabriel]

I would've rigged it at 69% if I were him.

[Iphie]

Of all the numbers he could have picked, of course he does 88%. Other numbers just don't have the same.....flavor.

It's a rounding, I keep reading it was 87,3% (I mean I would round down to 87, but sometimes it's convention to round everything up.)

[Ulmita]

West decries Putin's election win, China, India vow closer ties

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...im-2024-03-18/

In sharp contrast, Chinese President Xi Jinping congratulated Putin, and said Beijing would maintain close communication with Moscow to promote the "no limits" partnership they agreed in 2022, just before Russia invaded Ukraine.
"I believe that under your leadership, Russia will certainly be able to achieve greater achievements in national development and construction," Xi told Putin in his message, according to Xinhua News.
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi echoed that message, saying he looked forward to strengthening New Delhi's "time-tested special and privileged strategic partnership" with Moscow

So just two of the countries that congratulated Putin and vowed for closer ties, represent almost 3B of world's 8B population (or around 37.5%). This is why sanctions aren't working as they should tbh.

[DarkTZeratul]

So just two of the countries that congratulated Putin and vowed for closer ties, represent almost 3B of world's 8B population (or around 37.5%). This is why sanctions aren't working as they should tbh.

Words are cheap. What are they actually doing that materially benefits Russia's crashing economy?

EDIT: Also, people are not economies. Do you have any conception how many people in India and China live in abject poverty? Tens of millions of poor people won't do a damn thing for Russia. You realize that the countries that are against them account for around 70% of the global GDP, right?

[Ivanstone]

So just two of the countries that congratulated Putin and vowed for closer ties, represent almost 3B of world's 8B population (or around 37.5%). This is why sanctions aren't working as they should tbh.

Those 3B people need resources like gas and minerals. Its almost like their respective leaders are giving cheep flattery so they can continue to gut Russia's resources for little cost.

[Ulmita]

Words are cheap. What are they actually doing that materially benefits Russia's crashing economy?

EDIT: Also, people are not economies. Do you have any conception how many people in India and China live in abject poverty? Tens of millions of poor people won't do a damn thing for Russia. You realize that the countries that are against them account for around 70% of the global GDP, right?

They help Russia circumvent the sanctions. For example they buy their oil and then they sell it to us.

[Edge-]

So just two of the countries that congratulated Putin and vowed for closer ties, represent almost 3B of world's 8B population (or around 37.5%). This is why sanctions aren't working as they should tbh.

Just for some context.

India 2021 GDP: $3.176T (USD)
China 2021 GDP: $17.73T (USD)
Russia 2021 GDP: $1.779T (USD)
USA 2021 GDP: $23.32T (USD)

Most of what India is still purchasing from Russia is dirt-cheap oil that others won't purchase, making up more than half of the $40B in exports from RUS -> India https://oec.world/en/profile/bilater...us/partner/ind

Everyone paying attention knows that India is happy to get cheap petrol right now and this isn't exactly surprising, it's in their interests.

[DarkTZeratul]

They help Russia circumvent the sanctions. For example they buy their oil and then they sell it to us.

Which they've been doing all this time, it's nothing new, but that's much less about helping Russia and much more about taking advantage of Russia's desperation to buy really cheap oil.

Also Ukraine's now targeting their refineries, so who knows how much longer that'll even last.