Russian invasion of Ukraine

[alach]

Jeffery Sachs? Never heard of him before, but he does seem to have a fairly impressive resume.
Either way, just another anti-american government, "if Ukraine wants peace they should just surrender" dude.

[KrayZ33]

Such an interesting interview:
https://youtu.be/c586OPde_NA?si=I0krk0KUxncpUSHH

Some fun things that were said:
1. US helped overthrow Uktaine government
2. Zelensky agreed to nutrality during Ankara talks, US pushed for war
3. NATO expansion
4. There is Monroe doctrine in effect for US but Russia can't ask for something similar, cause xyz


Thoughts?

It's really simple and obvious. Positions like his always come down to the point that Taiwan and Ukraine are not allowed to be anything but vassals that crumble under the influence of their neighbouring giants, they shall remain weak and powerless, so they can be invaded if it is necessary.
They are not allowed to find allies *they* want, they are not allowed to have weapons *they* from whom they want.

And people like Sachs support this, because it's not his people or him that has to take the hit.

Appeasing crocodiles is not a solution.

[Voidism]

[...]
Everyone paying attention knows that India is happy to get cheap petrol right now and this isn't exactly surprising, it's in their interests.

I mean, it's in our interests too. Without russian oil, our economies would be worse and it would rally more countries against the West. It's better that they continue to sell, but without (much) profits. Break even.

[Ulmita]

It's really simple and obvious. Positions like his always come down to the point that Taiwan and Ukraine are not allowed to be anything but vassals that crumble under the influence of their neighbouring giants, they shall remain weak and powerless, so they can be invaded if it is necessary.
They are not allowed to find allies *they* want, they are not allowed to have weapons *they* want.

And people like Sachs support this, because it's not his people or him that has to take the hit.

Appeasing crocodiles is not a solution.

I don't think he ever said or implied such a thing. What he is telling is that we should find ways to de escalate instead of risking nuclear war. He never said anything about Ukraine surrendering.

[KrayZ33]

I don't think he ever said or implied such a thing. What he is telling is that we should find ways to de escalate instead of risking nuclear war. He never said anything about Ukraine surrendering.

Of course he did.
You didn't watch your own video if you come to a different conclusion.

What is there to "negotiate". Why does Ukraine have to remain neutral even though they don't want to?

He himself said, after Russia *invaded* Zelensky apparently was ready to "negotiate and will remain *neutral*" and the US, so he says, stopped that.

So Russia is quite literally forcing political decisions and undermining their right to determine their own future through the use of military force, by killing Ukrainians

[Corvus]

Jeffery Sachs has been pushing a russian friendly message for ages. Here is an article from a year ago refuting all his wrong talking points.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/03/20...ia-ukraine-war

[KrayZ33]

Jeffery Sachs has been pushing a russian friendly message for ages. Here is an article from a year ago refuting all his wrong talking points.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/03/20...ia-ukraine-war

That's a very good find with very good points, I'll bookmark that.
It's really hard to keep track of everything that has happened and mentioning everything whenever people bring up the topic again and again and again.
You end up forgetting to mention important details, it's almost like there is a strategy behind people bringing up the same points again and again, no matter how wrong they are.... "almost".

Gotta love the signatures below it as well, consideren the fallacy that was used with his name and position here.

[alach]

Jeffery Sachs has been pushing a russian friendly message for ages. Here is an article from a year ago refuting all his wrong talking points.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/03/20...ia-ukraine-war

Yep! That about all we need for a rebuttal of the Piers Morgan interview above.

[Flarelaine]

Finnish foreign minister Valtonen has come out saying that deploying NATO troops into Ukraine should not be excluded from decisions on how to aid Ukraine further. Seems like that despite some notable cowardly nay-sayers there are substantial amount of pro-presence countries.

Notably the ones that can see Russia from their house.

- - - Updated - - -

Such an interesting interview:
https://youtu.be/c586OPde_NA?si=I0krk0KUxncpUSHH

Some fun things that were said:
1. US helped overthrow Uktaine government
2. Zelensky agreed to nutrality during Ankara talks, US pushed for war
3. NATO expansion
4. There is Monroe doctrine in effect for US but Russia can't ask for something similar, cause xyz


Thoughts?

The thread has been warned numerous times that "b-but NATO" and similar conspiracy theory narratives are derailing the discussion.

[zealo]

Anyone want to take one for the team. I'm absolutely not clicking that link.

There’s nothing of value in what he linked to, but its just a regular youtube one for that matter, worst that can happen is that you’ll have to go into your viewing history and delete it so the algorithm doesn’t send you garbage recommendations from watching that.

[Attackrabbit]

worst that can happen is that you’ll have to go into your viewing history and delete it so the algorithm doesn’t send you garbage recommendations from watching that.

I dunno, someone said it's a Piers Morgan video so the worst that can happen is you end up seeing and hearing Piers Morgan - wouldn't wish that on anyone

[alach]

Yeah its Piers Morgan's talk show interviewing Jeffery Sachs. You can wikipedia him if you want like I did, but Corvus' link has all you really need to know.
In the same vein as Roger Waters' remarks last year.
Pretty lame, if you ask me.

[jeezusisacasual]

I dunno, someone said it's a Piers Morgan video so the worst that can happen is you end up seeing and hearing Piers Morgan - wouldn't wish that on anyone

He is sadly the dog shit you stepped on but keep smelling long after you think its off.

[Corvus]

Looks like mass mobilisation is back on the menu boys.

Just days after the 'election' Shoigu has announced they will create 2 new field armies comprising 14 divisions and 16 brigades. Current covert mobilisation is only keeping up with current casualties so if they mean to actually do this then they will have to do a more overt mobilisation of several hundred thousand more men.

[Iphie]

Looks like mass mobilisation is back on the menu boys.

Just days after the 'election' Shoigu has announced they will create 2 new field armies comprising 14 divisions and 16 brigades. Current covert mobilisation is only keeping up with current casualties so if they mean to actually do this then they will have to do a more overtime mobilisation of several hundred thousand more men.

Watch for another exodus, and/or a bit more backlash this time around. But hey! the war is going just fine, innit?

[Elder Millennial]

Looks like mass mobilisation is back on the menu boys.

Just days after the 'election' Shoigu has announced they will create 2 new field armies comprising 14 divisions and 16 brigades. Current covert mobilisation is only keeping up with current casualties so if they mean to actually do this then they will have to do a more overt mobilisation of several hundred thousand more men.

I'd be genuinely surprised if the Russians could equip and field 14 new divisions.

That's absolutely delusional. Even with their economy being as war tilted as it is. They'd need such a massive influx of Chinese gear that even the Chinese couldn't hide it.

Or they'd need to completely plunder the stockpiles of one or several CIS states like Kazakhstan or Belarus. Tho even there I wonder how much can they realistically get because I'm also sure they already squeezed them for everything they could.

[Iphie]

I'd be genuinely surprised if the Russians could equip and field 14 new divisions.

That's absolutely delusional. Even with their economy being as war tilted as it is. They'd need such a massive influx of Chinese gear that even the Chinese couldn't hide it.

Or they'd need to completely plunder the stockpiles of one or several CIS states like Kazakhstan or Belarus. Tho even there I wonder how much can they realistically get because I'm also sure they already squeezed them for everything they could.

I sincerely doubt the 'Stans would allow that since then their own regimes security will be precarious. Kazakhstan in particular already pivoted to China and none of them really supports russia's effort because they also know they would be on the chopping block next. (They also don't really actively oppose putin iirc.) Belarus has already been pilfered years ago (mid to late 2022!).

[Elder Millennial]

I sincerely doubt the 'Stans would allow that since then their own regimes security will be precarious. Kazakhstan in particular already pivoted to China and none of them really supports russia's effort because they also know they would be on the chopping block next. (They also don't really actively oppose putin iirc.) Belarus has already been pilfered years ago (mid to late 2022!).

I doubt there's any eager supporter of Russia outside Lukashenka, but I don't think they have much of a choice either.

I don't see them handing over their tank fleets, but they have probably sold and are selling gear to the Russians. Plus aiding with re-exports. Frankly it's hard to tell as we have very limited "eyes on the ground" there.

There are no DW or CNN journalists digging through Turkmen supply stock documents or Khazak army inventories.

[KrayZ33]

Apparently, US is asking to halt drone strikes on oil refineries.

Lmao.

I'm honestly disgusted.

[Iphie]

Apparently, US is asking to halt drone strikes on oil refineries.

Lmao.

I'm honestly disgusted.

Translation: these strikes are very effective and Russia is begging the US to call off Ukraine because they can't do it themselves on account of the war.