Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Edge-]

But I am seriously flummoxed and jaded that the same people telling me to get vaccinated for the betterment of human lives are now cheering that Russian civilians get fucked and have a worse off time than they already do.

I can help with that: The two ideas have no connection to each other.

Getting vaccinated is an objectively good thing, both for yourself and everyone around you. Period. There's no downside to it. Nobody is to "blame" for the coronavirus or pandemic, this is shit that has been warned about for years and shit that will happen again.

Wanting sanctions against Russia in direct response to the actions of Russia as a means to attempt to punish or dissuade them from further action while avoiding a military conflict is the diplomatic approach. It's unfortunate, but it's the correct and appropriate response to this kind of behavior. People don't want the Russian people to suffer, especially as many are risking their lives to go out in the streets and protest, but that's the unfortunate result of the sanctions, which are appropriate and necessary when dealing with what is essentially a rogue state.

[Tyris Flare]

Man, Pornhub continues to be a tremendous force for good in the world. If anything is gonna rile up the Russian citizenry against their government, it's losing access to the biggest porn site in the world (I assume it is, at least).

I mean, let's not go nuts here. It's funny, but it's just a PR stunt. Saying a company who has and is almost certainly raking in a non trivial amount of money from underaged/trafficked/compelled girls is "a tremendous force for good" is...yeah. Let's not lose our bearings.

Edit: also it's apparently bunk anyway!

[Vasilisa]

I'm not going to sit here with my finger up my ass pretending to know even a little bit about Putin, how Russia operates, Communism as a whole or events up until now. But I am seriously flummoxed and jaded that the same people telling me to get vaccinated for the betterment of human lives are now cheering that Russian civilians get fucked and have a worse off time than they already do.

The problem is that in the end it comes down to two options (well, three if you count ignoring Russian aggression as one): send in the military (which may and probably will end up with a large-scale conflict) or make the aggressor's country elites suffer so they'll stand against their maniac leader. Common people will suffer as well but there isn't an option to hit oligarchy heavily without hitting common Russians as well.

[PhaelixWW]

May be you should fact check certain posts as a moderator instead of jerking off the posters to make them feel better.

Edge is not a moderator in this forum. Regardless, moderators are allowed to have opinions and express them. And it's not like PornHub hasn't engaged in recognition of political actions before.

It was a simple mistake, and the mea culpa was made before you even responded.

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In my day we used our imagination while waiting 5 minutes for a jpg of tits to load.

All while hoping that nobody gets mad because you're taking up the phone line to do so.

[Breccia]

Because Putin isn't, technically, totalitarian. He's technically elected.

I mean, "elected" is a stretch. Remembe that time he hit his term limit, and his successor immediately abdicated and put un-elected Putin in charge?

Or that time in 2020 when he fired the entire government?

Putin is only barely an elected leader.

[Al Gorefiend]

This isn’t just whataboutism, but ducking stupid whataboutism at that.

Lol.

"Human life sacred, just not those ones"

Lol.

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I can help with that: The two ideas have no connection to each other.

Getting vaccinated is an objectively good thing, both for yourself and everyone around you. Period. There's no downside to it. Nobody is to "blame" for the coronavirus or pandemic, this is shit that has been warned about for years and shit that will happen again.

Wanting sanctions against Russia in direct response to the actions of Russia as a means to attempt to punish or dissuade them from further action while avoiding a military conflict is the diplomatic approach. It's unfortunate, but it's the correct and appropriate response to this kind of behavior. People don't want the Russian people to suffer, especially as many are risking their lives to go out in the streets and protest, but that's the unfortunate result of the sanctions, which are appropriate and necessary when dealing with what is essentially a rogue state.

Both refusing to vaccinate and sanctioning Russia does have something in common: Indifference to the suffering of others.

[PhaelixWW]

"Human life sacred, just not those ones"

Lol.

Sanctions are not killing Russian citizens. Russian soldiers are, however, killing Ukrainians.

It's like you don't get that making some people uncomfortable in order to save other people's lives is, in fact, a humanitarian effort.

[Vasilisa]

He will probaly die from old age before that (69). Stalin died at age of 74 for example.

That's quite possible because Putler is said to be extremely paranoid but hopefully we'll be pleasantly surprised. Rich likes to live in luxury and if part of this luxury is going to be taken from them, they might reconsider their priorities.

[Endus]

I'm not going to sit here with my finger up my ass pretending to know even a little bit about Putin, how Russia operates, Communism as a whole or events up until now. But I am seriously flummoxed and jaded that the same people telling me to get COVID vaccinated for the betterment of human lives are now cheering that Russian civilians get fucked and have a worse off time than they already do.

1> As others have noted, not getting vaccinated was both important for your own health and also a protective measure for the health and security of your fellow citizens wherever you happen to live. There's no comparison between these two situations. Because;

2> Seriously, we were talking about access to Pornhub. If that's what you qualify as "unmitigated and unjustifiable human suffering", your principles are so completely out of whack with reality you don't bear any kind of honest or meaningful response.

Edit: Oh, also;

3> The alternative to sanctions, if you want to talk about the broader situation, isn't "do nothing and experience maximal goodness". Ukrainians would continue dying and being oppressed. So the alternatives to sanctions would be things like "striking Russian cities with cruise missiles". Which are clearly worse than sanctions, in terms of human suffering, by such a margin it's a ridiculous discussion to hold. So are you in favor of direct military strikes against Russia instead? Or are you just a Putin supporter who wants him to seize a sovereign nation without any pushback internationally for his expansionism?

I mean, "elected" is a stretch. Remembe that time he hit his term limit, and his successor immediately abdicated and put un-elected Putin in charge?

Or that time in 2020 when he fired the entire government?

Putin is only barely an elected leader.

Yeah, but that's still where I'd draw the line between "actual totalitarianism" and just "sparkling authoritarianism".

If enough Russians decide to boot him no matter what in the next election, he'd either be ousted or go full totalitarian.

[unfilteredJW]

"Human life sacred, just not those ones"

Lol.

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Both refusing to vaccinate and sanctioning Russia does have something in common: Indifference to the suffering of others.

Man, stretch harder.

Over fucking Pornhub.

[Al Gorefiend]

1> As others have noted, not getting vaccinated was both important for your own health and also a protective measure for the health and security of your fellow citizens wherever you happen to live. There's no comparison between these two situations. Because;

2> Seriously, we were talking about access to Pornhub. If that's what you qualify as "unmitigated and unjustifiable human suffering", your principles are so completely out of whack with reality you don't bear any kind of honest or meaningful response.

It isn't about just the access to Pornhub. Its the fact we have people in this thread saying "Oh that wasn't true? damn" as if hoping it to be the case. It could have been Youtube, and this carries on with people applauding Anonymous' actions of taking down a news network that delivered news to the Russian people. "Fuck yeah! Victory!"

Its like *gasp* these same people who are also pro-vaxxers were virtue signaling!

[Breccia]

Yeah, but that's still where I'd draw the line between "actual totalitarianism" and just "sparkling authoritarianism".

Indeed, but this might be the finest line in existence.

[lockybalboa]

The least the EU could do right now is to kick Russia out of Swift. But they are too spineless to do even that. This is a disgrace

[Edge-]

Both refusing to vaccinate and sanctioning Russia does have something in common: Indifference to the suffering of others.

Failing to sanction Russia for its actions is indifference for the Ukrainian people. I'll stick with sanctioning the country that invaded another and started a war. Again, the point isn't that we're celebrating the suffering of Russians should these sanctions actually have a negative impact. It would be great if we could hurt Putin without hurting the Russian people. But that's not possible, and sanctions are the least-bad option on the table right now beyond "Ignore everything and let Russia take Ukraine without consequence" and "Start a hot war with Russia".

The correct person to be mad at is Putin. Not the US or any western nations. Not anyone supporting the sanctions, but Putin, for choosing to invade Ukraine knowing full well that it would result in sanctions that might harm the Russian people.

Your anger is misdirected.

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It isn't about just the access to Pornhub. Its the fact we have people in this thread saying "Oh that wasn't true? damn" as if hoping it to be the case.

Because hypothetically losing access to a porn site isn't "suffering", it's kinda fuckin funny. Why you try to connect this to sanctions and other moves is beyond me, as they're totally unrelated.

[Jessicka]

I'm not going to sit here with my finger up my ass pretending to know even a little bit about Putin, how Russia operates, Communism as a whole or events up until now. But I am seriously flummoxed and jaded that the same people telling me to get COVID vaccinated for the betterment of human lives are now cheering that Russian civilians get fucked and have a worse off time than they already do.

I'll tell you to wear a mask and get vaccinated.

I'm also under no delusions that sanctions will do shit. Problem is, rather than try to disentangle ourselves from the Russian economy after Georgia, or Crimea, or whatever other massive red flag of a point of aggression towards NATO you want to pick through history (he didn't exactly make a secret that NATO was his excuse), we got more wrapped up. That means any non-military action that would actually achieve something will have massive blowback.

Furthermore, Putin made a lot of people in the west unfathomably rich, and they had, and still have a lot of influence on policy. That to dials back what we're prepared to ask for.

This hasn't 'just happened', it's been a long game from Putin, but people didn't want to see it. And again, anyone thinking sanctions will cause ordinary Russians to oust Putin, they're deluded. Germany was starving, unimaginably suffering when the allies rolled in. And they kept fighting and fighting. Same with Japanese soldiers who never got the memo that the mainland had been nuked and the Empire surrendered. It simply doesn't work like that. Trying to starve, terrorise, or break a nation doesn't stop it fighting.

[PhaelixWW]

It isn't about just the access to Pornhub. Its the fact we have people in this thread saying "Oh that wasn't true? damn" as if hoping it to be the case. It could have been Youtube, and this carries on with people applauding Anonymous' actions of taking down a news network that delivered news to the Russian people. "Fuck yeah! Victory!"

Its like *gasp* these same people who are also pro-vaxxers were virtue signaling!

It's like you're in a make-believe world; your position legitimately doesn't even make sense.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I mean, by that logic every country funds the war, every war probably.

I mean, by this logic then really no one is good or bad in any war its just how it is why care. Then if you don't care why reply?

Or.. you can cut the Russians off from what is funding their only hope of survival. Natural Gas and oil and accept filling up the car is going to suck and heating the house is going to be more expensive. If not, really.. its how many Ukrainian people are you willing to throw into the burner to keep the temp set at 78 tonight. Or save yourself 20 bucks a week at the fuel station.

The current sanctions are nothing because they knew exactly what was coming. Oh no.. take my boat or my condo in London. Oh no.. freeze the banks that was obviously coming. I mean imagine losing your hotel in exchange for a nation. The only thing that will cut the Russians hard is oil and gas. As long as it flows west their armies can move west as well with ease.

[Vasilisa]

It isn't about just the access to Pornhub. Its the fact we have people in this thread saying "Oh that wasn't true? damn" as if hoping it to be the case. It could have been Youtube, and this carries on with people applauding Anonymous' actions of taking down a news network that delivered news to the Russian people. "Fuck yeah! Victory!"

These news are full of propaganda.

[Micfeind]

Hey, everyone in Russia is losing access to Pornhub, men and women alike. They'll have to find their spank material elsewhere, though I can't say I'm familiar with the Russian porn landscape so I'm not sure what other options they have.

Sad bastards will have to resort to X-hamster....
To quote the great John McAfee, "No one should have to use X-Hamster"

[Magnagarde]

What is it with this sudden fucking mentality everyone has that suddenly the Russian people as a whole need to suffer because of the actions of a totalitarian leader.

"Haha Trump was such an asshole, those Americans deserve school shootings"

This is a very senseless comparison; nobody here is wishing for school shootings to happen in Russia because Russia is invading Ukraine.

The reason why the Russian people as a whole are "targeted" is because they've spent the past 20 years voting Putin into office and because it is Russians invading Ukraine, with a large number of Russians being supportive of landgrabs under the pretext of ethnic unification. The world criticised the US and responded equally to Americans whenever they invaded a country, except that this kind of internet reaction wasn't possible nor common behaviour in the 2000s. I don't know a single person that approves of the invasion of Iraq to this day and I know that Americans are universally criticised for it to this day and will continue to get criticised for years to come. Many Russians clearly don't want this war, but people will always associate an ethnos with the decision of its leadership whenever said ethnos keeps said leader in place.