Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Kallisto]

While true, they were substantially more common the further back you go. Waterloo does come to mind for one which might have been called that in advance due to everyone knowing what winning or losing meant.

Waterloo is overstated in its importance. Even if Napoleon won he'd still lose the war in similar timeframe.

[Jastall]

While true, they were substantially more common the further back you go. Waterloo does come to mind for one which might have been called that in advance due to everyone knowing what winning or losing meant.

Eh, even if Napoleon had won Waterloo, he'd have lost some other battle and be defeated all the same. The odds stacked against him were far too great and the coalition was quite determined to see him gone to the remotest island they could fit him in this time.

Truly decisive battles are very rare. Gaugamela is certainly one of them for example, but even some military marvels like Cannae or Agincourt weren't actually all that decisive. Wars are far more often won via attrition and logistics than anything else, that's been true since there were wars.

[Karreck]

Yeah, that's when battles were fought with honour and gentlemanly conduct, where a time and place would be declared and everyone would show up on an organised battlefield with bands and banners dressed in company colours. Any sense of that was lost with the industrialisation of war.

It's rarely been that way in history. There is no honor in war.

[alach]

Speaking of honor, I give you the Russians...

US says Russia used choking agents against Ukrainian troops, breaching chemical weapons ban
CNN
—
The United States has formally accused Russia of using chemical weapons “as a method of warfare” against Ukraine and imposed sweeping new sanctions on Russian firms and government bodies.

In a statement on Wednesday, the US State Department said it had “made a determination … that Russia has used the chemical weapon chloropicrin against Ukrainian forces in violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC).”

It added that Russia had also used “riot control agents,” or tear gas, during the war in violation of the CWC.

“The use of such chemicals is not an isolated incident, and is probably driven by Russian forces’ desire to dislodge Ukrainian forces from fortified positions and achieve tactical gains on the battlefield,” it said.

[Iphie]

Speaking of honor, I give you the Russians...

Chloropicrin IS a tear gas...

The funny thing is that tear gases are authorised to be used against civilians but not on a field of battle. Feels a little bit off if I'm honest.

[alach]

Chloropicrin IS a tear gas...

The funny thing is that tear gases are authorised to be used against civilians but not on a field of battle. Feels a little bit off if I'm honest.

Maybe it's in a more concentrated form or dose.

[Azadina]

Should give Ukraine a shipment of VX missiles, to deter RuZZia from using chemical weapons. Force or the immediate threat of force is the only language orks understand.

[ringpriest]

Waterloo is overstated in its importance. Even if Napoleon won he'd still lose the war in similar timeframe.

Disagree. Napoleon was generally superb at strategy, operations, and battlefield tactics and charismatic to an amazing degree. While he might have made another such series of mistakes, there are no guarantees he would have done so... and had Wellington's British and allies, plus Blucher's Prussians all been defeated in (large) detail, it is unclear when the 7th Coalition would have been able to bring him to battle again, and no guarantees they would have had as much success when they did. Wellington and Blucher both gambled and won, by the skin of their teeth.

[Gabriel]

Should give Ukraine a shipment of VX missiles, to deter RuZZia from using chemical weapons. Force or the immediate threat of force is the only language orks understand.

Expedite it and just deliver it directly to the invaders.

[Jessicka]

It's rarely been that way in history. There is no honor in war.

Of course there isn't. Those just just happened to be the kinds of battles where battles were battles in kind of the "purest" sense of the word, being pre-planned to be decisive rather than key moments picked out of an ongoing conflict retrospectively as turning points.

[Gigantique]

Chloropicrin IS a tear gas...

The funny thing is that tear gases are authorised to be used against civilians but not on a field of battle. Feels a little bit off if I'm honest.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Chloropicrin known to induce vomiting and having (back in the day against older mask designs) particles small enough to bypass gas masks?

So the horrific strategy was to dunk the enemy with Chloropicrin to give them the choice between drowning in their own vomit or remove the masks and then conveniently also drop actual lethal agents like mustard on top of it.

[Iphie]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Chloropicrin known to induce vomiting and having (back in the day against older mask designs) particles small enough to bypass gas masks?

So the horrific strategy was to dunk the enemy with Chloropicrin to give them the choice between drowning in their own vomit or remove the masks and then conveniently also drop actual lethal agents like mustard on top of it.

It's an odd one:

Chloropicrin (PS) is used in agriculture as a soil fumigant. It has also been used as a chemical warfare agent (military designation, PS) and a riot control agent. It was used in large quantities during World War I and was stockpiled during World War II. However, it is no longer authorized for military use. Chloropicrin (PS) is an irritant with characteristics of a tear gas. Chloropicrin (PS) has an intensely irritating odor. Inhalation of 1 ppm causes eye irritation and can warn of exposure.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/eme..._29750034.html

Like it's a pesticide.thst got used for riot control.

[Jessicka]

It's an odd one:



https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/eme..._29750034.html

Like it's a pesticide.thst got used for riot control.

Many chemical weapons are derived from the same groups of chemicals as pesticides since they target the nervous system directly. If that doesn't make you worry about pesticide use, well, it should.

[Iphie]

Many chemical weapons are derived from the same groups of chemicals as pesticides since they target the nervous system directly. If that doesn't make you worry about pesticide use, well, it should.

I mean, I'm pretty sure I saw an article about higher than average incidences of nerve damage with pesticide factory plant workers.

[Jessicka]

I mean, I'm pretty sure I saw an article about higher than average incidences of nerve damage with pesticide factory plant workers.

Yep, farmers too.

[alach]

Ukraine has just said the F-16s will be in the air starting after the 5th. Not sure if I would announce this to my enemies, but hey, there you go.

[Zaydin]

Ukraine has just said the F-16s will be in the air starting after the 5th. Not sure if I would announce this to my enemies, but hey, there you go.

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why people kept touting F-16s for Ukraine. Yeah, they are better than the aging Soviet crap they have but Ukraine would need hundreds of them to achieve parity with the Russian Air Force. Russian planes might be shit but the Russians have a lot more of them and, much as I hate quoting him, as Stalin said “Quantity has a quality all its own”

[Odinfrost]

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why people kept touting F-16s for Ukraine. Yeah, they are better than the aging Soviet crap they have but Ukraine would need hundreds of them to achieve parity with the Russian Air Force. Russian planes might be shit but the Russians have a lot more of them and, much as I hate quoting him, as Stalin said “Quantity has a quality all its own”

Well, from what we have generally seen throughout the war, Russia also suffer from no-quality pilots, so this might be a more even fight than we assume

[Poopymonster]

Well, from what we have generally seen throughout the war, Russia also suffer from no-quality pilots, so this might be a more even fight than we assume

If both teams have minimally trained pilots, my money is on the one with the shinier toy.

[Iphie]

Stalin said “Quantity has a quality all its own”

That may have been true in a pre-nuke world, and before we learned to effectively slaughter thousands on a battlefield, but the shine has gone off that quote.