Russian invasion of Ukraine

[alach]

If we had run a betting pool, Iphie would have won.

Russia Victory Day parade: Only one tank on display as Vladimir Putin says country is going through 'difficult period'

Vladimir Putin used his Victory Day speech this year to try and warn Russia's combat forces were "always ready" but admitted the country was going through a "difficult period".

In the parade in Moscow, only one tank was present throughout the entire display - as the country continues to dedicate considerable firepower and resources to its war in Ukraine.

[Iphie]

It was quite pathetic in general, no self-propelled artillery, mostly cadets and navy personnel some iskanders and, of course, some show nukes. (Which I bet were just the hulls of missiles, I cannot imagine they'd let anything with that amount of explosive power get within a 100 km of putin.)

[Shadowferal]

...maybe it wasn't a field operable tank.

[Jessicka]

...maybe it wasn't a field operable tank.

It's a WW2 relic literally maintained for display, of course it isn't.

[TrueNeutral]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ys-2024-05-03/

Even a senior Ukrainian intelligence official admitted that the only way to end the war is through negotiations. There's no battlefield solution for Ukraine. Only in Zelensky's dreams.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...er-2024-05-06/
Italy's defense minister thought the same. There's no battlefield solution, only diplomatic solution to end the war. He also warned the comedian in Kiev that the counter-offensive last year was doomed to fail, but the comedian went ahead with it anyway.

[Iphie]

Like clockwork.

[Cynical Asshole]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ys-2024-05-03/

Even a senior Ukrainian intelligence official admitted that the only way to end the war is through negotiations. There's no battlefield solution for Ukraine. Only in Zelensky's dreams.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...er-2024-05-06/
Italy's defense minister thought the same. There's no battlefield solution, only diplomatic solution to end the war. He also warned the comedian in Kiev that the counter-offensive last year was doomed to fail, but the comedian went ahead with it anyway.

Yes, but it's very important to negotiate from a position of power, not from the position of the loser.

And to do that, Russia needs to be beaten into being more open to concessions and compromise.

[diller]

Even a senior Ukrainian intelligence official admitted that the only way to end the war is through negotiations. There's no battlefield solution for Ukraine.

Pretty much all wars ends through negotiations so it's not really that much of a big deal as you make it seem.

Also again, Russia started it, it's their war to end by retreating.

Not even sure why I'm replying to a troll...

[Corvus]

Speaking of tanks, confirmed visual losses of russian tanks via Onyx has hit 3000, including over 2000 destroyed outright. Given russia can only 'make' 200 a year (though most of those are refurbishing rapidly depleting stores), that is 15 years worth of tanks gone.

And to celebrate pootie's embarrassing victory day, Ukraine set a new record by hitting a refinery 1500km inside russia with a Cessna drone. What air defence doing?

[Dontrike]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ys-2024-05-03/

Even a senior Ukrainian intelligence official admitted that the only way to end the war is through negotiations. There's no battlefield solution for Ukraine. Only in Zelensky's dreams.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...er-2024-05-06/
Italy's defense minister thought the same. There's no battlefield solution, only diplomatic solution to end the war. He also warned the comedian in Kiev that the counter-offensive last year was doomed to fail, but the comedian went ahead with it anyway.

Alright, Mods, even you folks can see that you ban one the next one pops up. You can't sit there and say that this isn't the same user evading their ban. How many times does this loop need to be circled before it's acknowledged.

[TrueNeutral]

Pretty much all wars ends through negotiations so it's not really that much of a big deal as you make it seem.

Also again, Russia started it, it's their war to end by retreating.

Not even sure why I'm replying to a troll...

WW2 in Europe ended because Germany surrendered unconditionally. The battlefield solution worked because Germany was fighting against two major powers (Western Allies and Soviet Union).

I imagine the war in Ukraine will end similarly to how the war between Finland and Soviet Union ended, where Finland had to make concessions by giving up some land to Russia, committing to neutrality which allowed them to exist and survive up to this day. Finland was pragmatic and smart during the Cold War.

This is what I predict is going to happen, whether you or me like it or not.
1. Ukraine will officially recognize Crimea is part of Russia.
2. Ukraine will cede the Donbass region (and other regions Russia captured) to Russia.
3. Ukraine will commit to not joining NATO, but will be allowed to join the EU (Russia already indicated that Ukraine is allowed to join the EU). I think that's a fair compromise.

Why? Because Ukraine does not have the means to sustain the war, because their facing severe shortage of manpower. They're so desperate that they're now allowing convicts to serve in the army.



- - - Updated - - -

Alright, Mods, even you folks can see that you ban one the next one pops up. You can't sit there and say that this isn't the same user evading their ban. How many times does this loop need to be circled before it's acknowledged.

I am not that guy. He is a pro-Z propagandist who supports the war and killing of Ukrainians (which I find sickening). I am the opposite of that guy; I am against the war and I support peace for Ukrainians.

[alach]

Ok lets say your right.
Ukraine goes to the negotiating table and agrees to give up a portion of its sovereign territory to Russia in exchange for them to stop bombing apartments and schools and power stations.
What then? Could you imagine what kind of precendent that would set? It would completely undermine the world order for the last 70 years. It would basically say, "Whoever has the bigger army can absorb a neighbour country with smaller army."
As someone from a country who has a small army, next to a country who has the most powerful army in the world, I would be greatly worried for the future. Sure it sounds crazy to imagine it today, but its all just one bad election away if Russia is allowed to get away with this. Theres a reason your examples go back to WW2. Because thats when this type of behaviour ended. By global concensus.
Not even mentioning all the other reasons that have been brought up in this thread countless and countless of times. (Like the generally lack of trust for any deal made with Russia in the first place.)

[Dontrike]

I am not that guy. He is a pro-Z propagandist who supports the war and killing of Ukrainians (which I find sickening). I am the opposite of that guy; I am against the war and I support peace for Ukrainians.

Sure you're not, you just happen to show up right after the other guy gets banned the last three times and then spout the same bot farm propaganda like they do until this account gets banned. Do you get two paychecks for two accounts?

[Elder Millennial]

Some types of territorial concessions might be on the table, but any commitment to neutrality or not joining NATO will absolutely not.

Russian is not in the position to force that on Ukraine, nor will Ukraine ever accept peace without NATO membership because such a peace would be effectively useless because it wouldn't be peace, it would just be a break for Russia to re-arm and go at it again in a few years time as they have in the past with Chechenia.

But this is an irrelevant discussion. As long as Ukraine is willing to fight, it's out job to equip them.

[TrueNeutral]

Ok lets say your right.
Ukraine goes to the negotiating table and agrees to give up a portion of its sovereign territory to Russia in exchange for them to stop bombing apartments and schools and power stations.
What then? Could you imagine what kind of precendent that would set? It would completely undermine the world order for the last 70 years. It would basically say, "Whoever has the bigger army can absorb a neighbour country with smaller army."
As someone from a country who has a small army, next to a country who has the largest army in the world, I would be greatly worried for the future. Sure it sounds crazy to imagine it today, but its all just one bad election away if Russia is allowed to get away with this. Theres a reason your examples go back to WW2. Because thats when this type of behaviour ended. By global concensus.
Not even mentioning all the other reasons that have been brought up in this thread countless and countless of times.

I see your point about the bad precedent, but what are the alternatives?

Alternative 1. Status quo, battlefield solution. The West keeps sending aid to Ukraine, let them fight to the last Ukrainian and still lose the war. Overall, more Ukrainians die and Russia will probably seize more land, or even the whole of the Ukraine.

Alternative 2. NATO send troops to Ukraine, which is extremely unlikely as Ukraine is not a member of NATO and NATO is not bound to protect Ukraine. Moreover, even if they did, it could escalate to a nuclear war and the whole world will be doomed. This is an even worse option. Emmanuel Macron the joker toyed with this idea but his European partners like Italy and Germany outright said no.

It's always worth giving peace a chance. Finland clearly couldn't defeat the mighty Soviet army, they negotiated a peace settlement and it worked out for both parties. If Finland could do it, I don't see why Ukraine can't.

[Dontrike]

I see your point about the bad precedent, but what are the alternatives?

Alternative 1. Status quo, battlefield solution. The West keeps sending aid to Ukraine, let them fight to the last Ukrainian and still lose the war. Overall, more Ukrainians die and Russia will probably seize more land, or even the whole of the Ukraine.

Weird how the option isn't Russia's economy collapses and they lose the war.

[Odinfrost]

Why? Because Ukraine does not have the means to sustain the war, because their facing severe shortage of manpower. They're so desperate that they're now allowing convicts to serve in the army.

What? You mean the thing Russia has been doing for ages now?

Why is it only bad when Ukraine does it?!

[alach]

Finland war in the 30s? You honestly believe if that would happen today it would have that same outcome?
Also, ask today's average Fins how they feel about russia. Not all peace and love if I recall.

[Shadowferal]

Casualties;
Russia: 300k+
Ukraine: 70k

It's a war of attrition right now...until the US sends Ukraine new stuff to...test.

[Dontrike]

What? You mean the thing Russia has been doing for ages now?

Why is it only bad when Ukraine does it?!

They act like Russia didn't hit that point within the first six months of these "three days".