1. #38721
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    IDF "apologist" - guilty as charged.

    Putin shill? Now that's one hallucination too far. Me not subscribing to all the rosy hopes and wishes voiced by ignorant people does not make me that, especially given my Ukrainian heritage.

    We talked about China's relationship with Russia given the recent visit of Putin there and we naturally discussed possible future events in the context of China-Russia collaboration.

    There isn't much else to discuss at the moment given mostly things are stalemate-ish at the moment, while that was news.
    I don't think Elegiac was talking about you, given that they said both the Putin shill and IDF apologist. And there's been a bunch of Putin shills, even if some try and fail to hide as true neutral parties.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  2. #38722
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Putin shill? Now that's one hallucination too far. Me not subscribing to all the rosy hopes and wishes voiced by ignorant people does not make me that, especially given my Ukrainian heritage.
    So why the fuck are you suggesting something that helps Putin in the short and long run?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  3. #38723
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    So why the fuck are you suggesting something that helps Putin in the short and long run?
    Because it helps Ukrainians even more so, as I plenty explained.

    As I said, you can supply ammo and weapons, you can't really supply soldiers that die, get disabled or worn out. The biggest problem of Ukraine is that Russia can simply bury them under the corpses of disposable meat, they outsource from all over the place - so at best it ends up being a stalemate anyway.

    It's literally the reality in front of your face every other decent Western analytic points out. Soldiers are the biggest problem for Ukraine and time is needed to replenish the losses on that front.

  4. #38724
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Because it helps Ukrainians even more so, as I plenty explained.
    You didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    As I said, you can supply ammo and weapons, you can't really supply soldiers that die, get disabled or worn out. The biggest problem of Ukraine is that Russia can simply bury them under the corpses of disposable meat, they outsource from all over the place - so at best it ends up being a stalemate anyway.
    A stalemate is better than giving up territory and the invaders time to reinforce, replenish, and restock. You never explained how lifting sanctions is a positive for Ukraine and a negative for Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    It's literally the reality in front of your face every other decent Western analytic points out. Soldiers are the biggest problem for Ukraine and time is needed to replenish the losses on that front.
    Yeah, but you never explained how this much-needed supply of soldiers doesn't go both ways. Russia also will come up with more disposable meat and the best part is they are motivated because they already succeeded partially while Ukraine just suffered losses and managed to get a not lasting peace.

    Because if they end this now territories are lost, they are then part of Russia, not part of Ukraine, not occupied, they become part of Russia. The only way for this to work in the way you think it could would be if Russia asked for an end, not if Ukraine asks to end this.

    If Russia is allowed to make demands it means Ukraine loses short-term and long-term.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  5. #38725
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    A stalemate is better than giving up territory and the invaders time to reinforce, replenish, and restock. You never explained how lifting sanctions is a positive for Ukraine and a negative for Russia.
    Where did I ever said/wrote that there should be any lifting of sanctions or that I am supporting such? You sure you reply to correct person?



    Yeah, but you never explained how this much-needed supply of soldiers doesn't go both ways. Russia also will come up with more disposable meat and the best part is they are motivated because they already succeeded partially while Ukraine just suffered losses and managed to get a not lasting peace.

    Because if they end this now territories are lost, they are then part of Russia, not part of Ukraine, not occupied, they become part of Russia. The only way for this to work in the way you think it could would be if Russia asked for an end, not if Ukraine asks to end this.

    If Russia is allowed to make demands it means Ukraine loses short-term and long-term.
    The need for Ukraine is much greater AND the delay of 2-3 years would allow Ukraine to maybe finally get functioning air force and more air defenses to better support their soldiers AND their civilians.

    What Russia is allowed or not allowed will be decided by the negotiations, I said multiple times - I do not expect any such agreement to last more than couple of years at best anyway. But it might just be enough for Ukraine to get reinforced with people, weapons and more importantly air force.

    ---

    So pray tell, how is this Putin shilling? You don't like or disagree with my opinion, does not suddenly make me some Kremlin agent. A notion that is fucking ridiculous giving I was born in Ukraine and now living in Israel and both these countries have beef with Russia and their pals at the moment.

  6. #38726
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Where did I ever said/wrote that there should be any lifting of sanctions or that I am supporting such? You sure you reply to correct person?
    On what basis would the sanctions continue if there was peace between Russia and Ukraine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The need for Ukraine is much greater AND the delay of 2-3 years would allow Ukraine to maybe finally get functioning air force and more air defenses to better support their soldiers AND their civilians.

    What Russia is allowed or not allowed will be decided by the negotiations, I said multiple times - I do not expect any such agreement to last more than couple of years at best anyway. But it might just be enough for Ukraine to get reinforced with people, weapons and more importantly air force.
    Why would Russia agree to this? If the West dictates what Ukraine has to do as you more or less predict why would Russia accept anything but the best for them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    So pray tell, how is this Putin shilling? You don't like or disagree with my opinion, does not suddenly make me some Kremlin agent. A notion that is fucking ridiculous giving I was born in Ukraine and now living in Israel and both these countries have beef with Russia and their pals at the moment.
    I have no idea how you came to the brilliant conclusion that Russia would accept peace without lifting sanctions giving Ukraine the much-needed breathing room (as you say) without getting anything out of it. For Russia to accept this it must get something in return.

    You're pretty inconsistent in your views and arguments so it's easy to mistake you for a Putin shill, I mean you're even using the Russian rhetoric of the NATO threat. It is Putin shilling because it helps Russia keep what they occupied/conquered and rebuild their Army, while Ukraine has to explain the loss of territory and rebuild their army for an inevitable attack by Russia.

    Pray tell how do you sell that to your countrymen in a positive way?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  7. #38727
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    So why the fuck are you suggesting something that helps Putin in the short and long run?
    1) More money and materiel for Israel.
    2) Freeing up Russia’s attention so they can start proxy conflicts in the Levant that Israel can exploit.

    Nothing more complicated to it, really. Just naked ethnonationalism. Lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  8. #38728

  9. #38729
    That is what happens when you draft the literal bottom of the barrel.

  10. #38730
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odinfrost View Post
    That is what happens when you draft the literal bottom of the barrel.
    Myeah, I don't think the pilots are the bottom of the barrel. Yeah sure they suck hard but compared to the grunts they're halfway decent.

  11. #38731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odinfrost View Post
    That is what happens when you draft the literal bottom of the barrel.
    They're making good on their "Kill the Nazis" claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  12. #38732
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Huh. Interesting. I didn't realize there was a geographical restriction to where Article 5 applies.
    When NATO was founded some founders still had colonial empires. It was declared from the start that whatever happens in these is not NATO business.

  13. #38733
    The UK has said intelligence shows that China has or is in the process of providing russia with lethal aid for its war.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk-def...ia-2024-05-22/

  14. #38734
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    When NATO was founded some founders still had colonial empires. It was declared from the start that whatever happens in these is not NATO business.
    Such was Hawaii, it only became a State in 1959, 10 years after the creation of NATO.
    "It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"

  15. #38735
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The biggest problem of Ukraine is that Russia can simply bury them under the corpses of disposable meat, they outsource from all over the place - so at best it ends up being a stalemate anyway.
    Do you use the same standard then you speak about Israel? the enemys of Israel can bury IDF in corpses. Its not like IDF have succeeded in winning the peace for the last 50+ year. So way do not Israel surrender?

    Not the last question was a rhetorical question. But do tell me why you do not use the same standard for Israel?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinfrost View Post
    That is what happens when you draft the literal bottom of the barrel.
    No its then you accept "good enough" guided glide bombs, Russia have used thousands of that type of weapon, so only about 1% hit a Russian villages, probably a few more % hit empty fields but the rest hit the target (or hit close to the target)
    Last edited by Fantomen; 2024-05-22 at 02:25 PM.

  16. #38736
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomen View Post
    Do you use the same standard then you speak about Israel? the enemys of Israel can bury IDF in corpses. Its not like IDF have succeeded in winning the peace for the last 50+ year. So way do not Israel surrender?

    Not the last question was a rhetorical question. But do tell me why you do not use the same standard for Israel?
    Because unlike in case of Ukraine, we beat the shit out of our invaders in a matter of weeks if not days, every time they tried.

    We have the overwhelming military superiority vs our neighbors here, unlike Ukraine vs Russia. Obvious answer, no?


    The reality in Israel is vastly different to reality in Ukraine.

  17. #38737
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Because unlike in case of Ukraine, we beat the shit out of our invaders in a matter of weeks if not days, every time they tried.

    We have the overwhelming military superiority vs our neighbors here, unlike Ukraine vs Russia. Obvious answer, no?


    The reality in Israel is vastly different to reality in Ukraine.
    Nah, you didn't. The IDF beat the shit out of a lot of civilians--including hostages and your countrymen--and might have accidentally hit some Hamas along the way.

  18. #38738
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The reality in Israel is vastly different to reality in Ukraine.
    Regardless of your opinions on the rest of Gaidax's post, I think we should all agree that this part is spot-on. There's another thread about Israel, let's not spread that here.

  19. #38739
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Regardless of your opinions on the rest of Gaidax's post, I think we should all agree that this part is spot-on. There's another thread about Israel, let's not spread that here.
    Correct.

    And as a whole the whataboutism is also generally not the best strategy to approach the topic given the very obvious differences in circumstances.

  20. #38740
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Regardless of your opinions on the rest of Gaidax's post, I think we should all agree that this part is spot-on. There's another thread about Israel, let's not spread that here.
    Hey, if they're going to bring up something objectively wrong, I'll go ahead and correct it. Whether or not it's in the proper thread.

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