Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Orange Joe]

Hey now, I'm coming up on 32 and haven't got a clue as to what 88 or 14, 18 etc are referring to specifically

But then again I don't encounter Nazi sympathisers... Well never here so forgive my sheltered mind. What do they stand for?

odd..... no one mentioned 14 before you

[Ulmita]

The USSR itself ceased to exist formally in late 1991.

Id read that at minimum as him saying Russia should be allowed to annex Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania.

Don't put words in my mouth please.


On other news:

80 countries singed the Swiss peace summit communique
https://kyivindependent.com/80-count...nt-communique/

80 countries including Ukraine (so 40% of all countries and waaayy less in terms of population) out of the 92 that participated actually signed it, meaning it's even a bigger bust that initially thought. Draw your own conclusions here.

[Orange Joe]

Even if Graham is a troll, at the end of the day it came out of the mouth of a very high ranked political official, from the party that sends the most support to one of the parties of the conflict. US citizens ought to be asking him some questions right about now. It looks bad, because it is bad.

What "rank" do you think he is?

[Mayhem]

Don't put words in my mouth please.

Well, then explain why 1990 borders. What is Russia fearing that NATO can do that they couldn't already do? Think of it like this, if NATO is actually the threat Russia states it is then NATO wouldn't allow it anyway. Why is Russia poking them if they are this existential threat? Maybe because it's just bullshit made up to have an excuse to occupy and annex foreign territory.

Even in 1990 there was NATO right at Russia's borders, to the north and the south, and nothing happened. No aggression towards Russia but lots of aggression from Russia.

Oh and because it went unchallenged, the 2% is not actually tied to American companies, NATO members are compelled to spend 2% of GDP on the military, what and how is up to them.

[Saradain]

Don't put words in my mouth please.


On other news:

80 countries singed the Swiss peace summit communique
https://kyivindependent.com/80-count...nt-communique/

80 countries including Ukraine (so 40% of all countries and waaayy less in terms of population) out of the 92 that participated actually signed it, meaning it's even a bigger bust that initially thought. Draw your own conclusions here.

Can do. You're full of shit. India, Armenia, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Indonesia, Bahrain, Colombia, South Africa, Thailand, Mexico, and the United Arab Emirates didn't sign. You also "forgot" to mention not all the invitees were nations, but also organizations. Try a math lesson next time, you don't take a percentage of something that wasn't even invited or present for any sort of vote. 100% of non-russian people without the right to vote on russian "elections" on this planet, or any other planet in the universe, didn't vote for Putin. Your logic works very well. But what comes to your math, 87% of the attendees supported the peace summit communique. Resounding success. In Russia, whatever Putin wants, would be supported by 120%...Freedom of choice for your votes is pretty isn't it?

But hey, keep peddling that the countless masses of 3rd world country people somehow mean Russia is stronk because they are not present in a peace summit...or that they somehow have a big role in world politics.

Hell, even better...from your same article you also conveniently forgot to mention.

Countries that have not attended the summit will be able to sign the communique later, Ukraine's Presidential Office head Andriy Yermak said on national television on June 15.

How's the "gotcha" for the Minsk agreement btw? You fled without replying to multiple different posters to defend your point.

[Corvus]

Meanwhile how many nations have backed pootie's 'peace' plan?

[Iphie]

"That's just his birthyear...", right...and the first of April is the day? (1488) or if you write dates differently, the fourth of January? These people aren't even subtle anymore. 18 is another i've seen used, but it's more rare.

To be sure I recently had to smack down someone saying that those symbols (14, 88, double lightning bolts, swastika and the Black Sun) were only widely known to NAZIs and their sympathizers...that was fun.

odd..... no one mentioned 14 before you

I did, a bit hidden but I did.

[Muzjhath]

On the whole Russia is supported by African nations bit.

That's because of a very aggressive PR campaign where they (Russia) have managed to paint themselves as anti-colonialistic. Not a hyper colonial empire.

I'm sure if lots of ingenious groups within Russia spread the message of who Russia is the view of it within Africa would be very different.

[diller]

But NATO should also move the borders back to 1990 location (or even better disband completely as ot has served its purpose. There is no Soviet Union anymore).

Please make just one good argument as to why the former eastern block shouldn't be in NATO.

NATO is not a threat to Russia, hell at some point there were even talks about Russia joining, that was obviously before they became a dictatorship again.

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I'm not surprised that they are fighting us since the official stance of the state is not neutrality but instead support Ukraine

Why shouldn't we picks sides against an aggressor, seriously what the hell is wrong with you?

[zealo]

Don't put words in my mouth please.


On other news:

80 countries singed the Swiss peace summit communique
https://kyivindependent.com/80-count...nt-communique/

80 countries including Ukraine (so 40% of all countries and waaayy less in terms of population) out of the 92 that participated actually signed it, meaning it's even a bigger bust that initially thought. Draw your own conclusions here.

You were the one that said the borders of 1990, not me.

Nobody is putting words in your mouth, so much as that your phrasing reveals what you really think for you.

[Orange Joe]

I did, a bit hidden but I did.

My mistake @Gigantique

[Ulmita]

Can do. You're full of shit. India, Armenia, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Indonesia, Bahrain, Colombia, South Africa, Thailand, Mexico, and the United Arab Emirates didn't sign. You also "forgot" to mention not all the invitees were nations, but also organizations. Try a math lesson next time, you don't take a percentage of something that wasn't even invited or present for any sort of vote. 100% of non-russian people without the right to vote on russian "elections" on this planet, or any other planet in the universe, didn't vote for Putin. Your logic works very well. But what comes to your math, 87% of the attendees supported the peace summit communique. Resounding success. In Russia, whatever Putin wants, would be supported by 120%...Freedom of choice for your votes is pretty isn't it?

But hey, keep peddling that the countless masses of 3rd world country people somehow mean Russia is stronk because they are not present in a peace summit...or that they somehow have a big role in world politics.

Hell, even better...from your same article you also conveniently forgot to mention.



How's the "gotcha" for the Minsk agreement btw? You fled without replying to multiple different posters to defend your point.

You obviously don't understand what happened.

Let me do some quoting for you:

Switzerland says invitations were sent to more than 160 heads of state or government and 57 agreed to take part — including the leaders of Kenya, Ghana, Argentina and Colombia. Dozens of other nations including diplomatic heavyweights South Africa, Brazil and Indonesia opted to send diplomats instead of leaders, while India sent a junior minister. Russia ally China refused to participate.

Source: https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-update.../live-69369361

To sum up, invites where send to 160+ head of states (i am pretty sure that it wasn't send to 195 because some of the not invited countries include North Korea, Iran, Belarus etc) and out of the 160+ invitations 52 countries actually send their PMs, and the rest (40) send random dudes including junior diplomats hahahaha

Let's do the math now Saradin: 80 signatures / 195 countries in the world = 41% of countries supported it.

Now the amount of countries isn't as strong indicator as the population. If we do the math for the population that didn't sign, we are less than 40% as China, India, Indonesia, Brazil etc, are all heavyweights.

I mean, even the freaking organizer said that are big differences between the countries that participated. (Diplomatic way of saying it was a bust)

I am not sure how much clearer it can get. It's the minority that drives the world to anahiliation and you Saradin are a part of it.

There can be no peace talks without Russia and China participating period.

[Saradain]

You obviously don't understand what happened.

Let me do some quoting for you:



Source: https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-update.../live-69369361

To sum up, invites where send to 160+ head of states (i am pretty sure that it wasn't send to 195 because some of the not invited countries include North Korea, Iran, Belarus etc) and out of the 160+ invitations 52 countries actually send their PMs, and the rest (40) send random dudes including junior diplomats hahahaha

Let's do the math now Saradin: 80 signatures / 195 countries in the world = 41% of countries supported it.

Now the amount of countries isn't as strong indicator as the population. If we do the math for the population that didn't sign, we are less than 40% as China, India, Indonesia, Brazil etc, are all heavyweights.

I mean, even the freaking organizer said that ate big differences between the countries that participated.

I am not sure how much clearer it can get. It's the minority that drives the world to anahiliation and you Saradin are a part of it.

There can be no peace talks without Russia and China participating period.

You are no russian shill, but you downplay and belittle everything that is positive towards Ukraine.

You are no russian shill, but you want NATO to disband, so Russia can freely wage war.

You are no russian shill, but you deem that the ones aiming to protect sovereignty and peace being the forces of annihilation, not Russia, that actively brings it to innocent nations.

There can be no peace with Putin. China has no part or right to demand or decide anything regarding Ukraine. Russian forces in Ukraine must be destroyed.

But you Ulmita, are no russian shill. You just obfuscate facts, escape any "gotcha" moment you attempt to conjure, never to answer queries of the point you feigned worth bringing up, never to defend the shit you fling en masse, praying some of it sticks.

Firehose of falsehood. You are the textbook definition of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood

According to RAND, the firehose of falsehood model has four distinguishing factors: it

is high-volume and multichannel
is rapid, continuous, and repetitive
lacks a commitment to objective reality
lacks commitment to consistency.

[Ulmita]

Please make just one good argument as to why the former eastern block shouldn't be in NATO.

NATO is not a threat to Russia, hell at some point there were even talks about Russia joining, that was obviously before they became a dictatorship again.

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Why shouldn't we picks sides against an aggressor, seriously what the hell is wrong with you?

Because this is what we told to Russia in 1990
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/1...sation-between

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You are no russian shill, but you downplay and belittle everything that is positive towards Ukraine.

You are no russian shill, but you want NATO to disband, so Russia can freely wage war.

You are no russian shill, but you deem that the ones aiming to protect sovereignty and peace being the forces of annihilation, not Russia, that actively brings it to innocent nations.

There can be no peace with Putin. China has no part or right to demand or decide anything regarding Ukraine. Russian forces in Ukraine must be destroyed.

But you Ulmita, are no russian shill. You just obfuscate facts, escape any "gotcha" moment you attempt to conjure, never to answer queries of the point you feigned worth bringing up, never to defend the shit you fling en masse, praying some of it sticks.

Firehose of falsehood. You are the textbook definition of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood

Random blah blah blah because no "counter aegument bro" - got it, waste of my time replying to you

[Saradain]

Because this is what we told to Russia in 1990
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/1...sation-between

Page 5

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Random blah blah blah because no "counter aegument bro" - got it, waste of my time replying to you

Keep running, turnip boy. And keep re-posting previously disproved promises of NATO "not expanding"

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/d...achev-says-no/

Former Soviet President Gorbachev’s View
We now have a very authoritative voice from Moscow confirming this understanding. Russia behind the Headlines has published an interview with Gorbachev, who was Soviet president during the discussions and treaty negotiations concerning German reunification. The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”

Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.” To be sure, the former Soviet president criticized NATO enlargement and called it a violation of the spirit of the assurances given Moscow in 1990, but he made clear there was no promise regarding broader enlargement.

[Calfredd]

Random blah blah blah because no "counter aegument bro"

At least you are finally admitting it and admittance is the first stage of recovery.

[Ulmita]

Keep running, turnip boy. And keep re-posting previously disproved promises of NATO "not expanding"

You've disproved it in your head, because the official Record of conversation between Mikhail Gorbachev and James Baker in Moscow clearly says "not one inch to the East"

[Saradain]

You've disproved it in your head, because the official Record of conversation between Mikhail Gorbachev and James Baker in Moscow clearly says "not one inch to the East"

And you literally said NATO should disband because Soviet Union ceased to exist.

So that fake promise you created in your head, that "was made" despite disproval, to Soviet Union also expired. What now?

[Edge-]

You've disproved it in your head, because the official Record of conversation between Mikhail Gorbachev and James Baker in Moscow clearly says "not one inch to the East"

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/09/u...mes-baker.html

No less a witness agreed than Mr. Gorbachev. “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years,” he told an interviewer after Russia’s intervention in Ukraine seven years ago. The issue was foreign troops in eastern Germany. “Baker’s statement” about not one inch “was made in that context,” Mr. Gorbachev said. “Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”

This is like the people desperately trying to say that the Civil War was about "states rights and had nothing to do with slavery".

Even Pizza Hut man, who was directly involved, says you're wrong lol.

[diller]

Because this is what we told to Russia in 1990

We?

It was a conversation not an agreement.