Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Elder Millennial]

Oh boy ---- russans are sending now T-62 on battlefield. Maybe the ukraine attacking the refinerys had some serios effect as this tank can run on disel no problem.

The T62 is actually really not as utterly horrible as it looks. They Re basically the same generation as the Leopard 1s.

The Ukrainians use them too. Both domestically upgraded ones and some modernized ones they got from the Czechs.

There's 5 things worth keeping in mind about the T62.

1. A shitty tank is better than no tank.
2. It's an extremely simple design, it's relatively easy to maintain and upgrade.
3. It has a 115mm smoothbore gun (the T55 has a rifled gun) that can fire APFSDS rounds, yes it's under gunned against a T72 and horribly undergunned against a Leopard or Abrams, the 115 is hella scary for infantry, MRAPS, Bradleys, Strykers, BMPs, M113s.
4. The ones the Russians are sending to Ukraine are the MV Obr 2022 variants. They basically have a new diesel engine, modern ERA and new sights with thermals.
5. About 22000 of these fucking things were built. Most of them are scrap metal or were exports, but the guestimates are that the Russians had about 2000 of them in deep storage. They pulled about an estimated 600 of them so far.

Would the Russians prefer to have T72s or 80s or something instead? Sure. But see point 1. It's still 600 to 2000 nasty metal boxes with a big ass gun on them that the Ukrainians have to kill.

[Iphie]

It's still 600 to 2000 nasty metal boxes with a big ass gun on them that the Ukrainians have to kill.

So a good afternoon's worth of work then?

I kid, I kid, but the fact does remain that it probably won't take too long to chew through these.

Also I'm not sure if the upgrades are very good...since you know corruption.

On a related note, anyone seen the russian sub in Cuba? That's not a great advertisement.

[Corvus]

The T62 has been used since 2022 by russia and around 150 have been destroyed already. The armour on them is not great so it will get chewed up by many things. Plus it requires a loader, unlike other russian tanks.

russia can only make around 50-60 new tanks a year, which is less than they lose a month. They are making it up with refurbishments but those are running out fast. Which is why russia has reportedly started asking other countries for tanks. Sudan and Myanmar have both been approached, but given both are in the middle of civil wars it is unlikely they will get anything. Almost certainly the visit to NK is also seeing a request for tanks. They wouldn't be begging for tanks from other nations if they had enough already.

[Yunru]

So a good afternoon's worth of work then?

I kid, I kid, but the fact does remain that it probably won't take too long to chew through these.

Also I'm not sure if the upgrades are very good...since you know corruption.

On a related note, anyone seen the russian sub in Cuba? That's not a great advertisement.

So US only has to send 2000 saint javelins

[Veggie50]

"People" have shared that "goal" since practically as long as there have been people in Europe. Lots of them have even tried to make that goal a reality. It's been a couple thousand years, and none of them have ever succeeded. I'd lay even odds that in a couple thousand more, the result will be the same.

Murphy’s law says this reasoning is fallacious.


It’ll take a looooot of time, but I think europe will head towards a “united states of europe”. Maybe not even in my grandchilds era, but still.

If we ever truly start exploring the universe I even believe we’ll get to a world government, eliminating “countries” as a concept.

[Elder Millennial]

So US only has to send 2000 saint javelins

Stuff like the Javelin, NLAW and even the Ukrainian STUGNA and many FPV drones can kill a T64. The problem is getting in a position/situation where they can actually get a shot off. We unironically have a more limited supply of ATGMs than Russians have of things you'd want to shoot an ATGM at. https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us...duction-o.html

Killing a tank is killing a tank, and it's never easy or trivial.

I hate the Russian etc but the fact is the unhinged levels of hoarding the Soviets and later the Russians have engaged in has paid off handsomely.

There is a lesson here that Western powers have cyclically learned then forgot again. Depth of storage is OFTEN more important than tech.

World War 1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_...%20the%20press.

World War 2

https://history.army.mil/html/books/..._Pub_70-29.pdf

Korean War

https://ahec.armywarcollege.edu/docu..._Readiness.pdf

and now again with Ukraine.

We cyclically learn the lessons of the importance of "depth of storage" and then we proceed to forget it and do "Surprised Pikachu" the next time there's a major shooting war. If the Russians did anything right is the fact that they learned this lesson once after WW1, and they haven't thrown away a single fucking thing since then. Yes, it's mostly junk but often it's a "junk vs nothing" scenario and then having junk is better than having nothing.

[Karreck]

If we ever truly start exploring the universe I even believe we’ll get to a world government, eliminating “countries” as a concept.

We need to find intelligent alien life for world government to happen. Humans needs an "Other" to push against. We'll keep fighting ourselves until there is an alien "Other" to fight.

[diller]

So Russia and North Korea signed a mutual protection pact.

[Benggaul]

So Russia and North Korea signed a mutual protection pact.

Yep. Many completely meaningless things happened today.

[diller]

Yep. Many completely meaningless things happened today.

I mean that's clearly a sign of aggression making defensive pacts (according to some people here)

[Saradain]

To add another point to laugh at about how NATO is totally an existential threat to Russia.

Russia has moved 80% of their military arsenal that was stationed alongside the finnish-russian border, to Ukraine. NATO so evil and aggressive that Russia doesn't even care to defend its border with Finland, 2nd newest NATO member. Russia did state they're bolstering the troops and weaponry along finnish border in response to joining NATO, but as always - Russia lies.

https://yle.fi/a/74-20093440

Link in finnish, so use a translator.

[Benggaul]

I mean that's clearly a sign of aggression making defensive pacts (according to some people here)

Ones that neither side has any intention of honoring? Big shrug.

[Elder Millennial]

Hahahaha. Musk's AI is cooking.



Unironically tho...it's a good answer.

[KrayZ33]

We need to find intelligent alien life for world government to happen. Humans needs an "Other" to push against. We'll keep fighting ourselves until there is an alien "Other" to fight.

We just need to colonize Mars.
Then we have Mars to fight against and at least Earth will be united.

[Corvus]

Pootie going to NK to beg for help appears to have backfired, with the SK government saying they are reconsidering providing military aid to Ukraine as a result.

SK is a major manufacturer of high tech military gear of all types as well as having 155mm ammunition production.

[Kaleredar]

Hahahaha. Musk's AI is cooking.



Unironically tho...it's a good answer.

There are some users around here that need to read that.

[Belize]

There are some users around here that need to read that.

Those users would be very upset if they could read.

[Elder Millennial]

Pootie going to NK to beg for help appears to have backfired, with the SK government saying they are reconsidering providing military aid to Ukraine as a result.

SK is a major manufacturer of high tech military gear of all types as well as having 155mm ammunition production.

South Korea has already been sort of indirectly supplying Ukraine. Like all that ammo the Czechs just keep "finding". Ammo swaps the US where the US gives ammo to Ukraine and gets resupplied from SK stocks.

Etc.

But yeah direct aid would go a long way.

[Kaleredar]

Those users would be very upset if they could read.

It’s also worth noting that if that’s what Twitter’s AI cooked up from mindlessly harvesting the internet and compiling sentiments and opinions into a result Russia is really, really losing the messaging war. So much so that even algorithms won’t fall for their bullshit.

[Belize]

The Russia-NK romance isn't going suuuuuper well.

Mostly has to do with Lavrov being a drunkard shithead. Don't get me wrong, they still ended up putting on a nice show for the camera afterwards, but it's probably not all roses and unicorn farts behind the scene.