Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Endus]

Talking about propaganda, can you back up that claim somehow?

If you didn't want to invade Ukraine, why would you try and extort NATO with a threat to invade Ukraine if they didn't obey your demands?

Nobody provoked Putin. This was entirely his choice. Russia was under no threat whatsoever, other than perhaps the regular economic pressures of the global market, and if you consider that a "threat" worthy of military response you're insane.

You literally cited an unprovoked threat from Russia as "proof" that Russia's actions were provoked. And you thought anyone here would fall for such an obvious lie. Your own source contradicts your claim immediately.

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Nahh, he is just imagining stuff, and he is just trying to pass them as truth. Aka the definition of propaganda.

Russia was trying to negotiate with the west up to the very last minute. Its well documented in western press.

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia...ng-2021-12-17/

Now going forward claiming that "Russia would have invaded either way" it's just his imagination and he has no way of proving that. Aka pure propaganda

"Russia was trying to negotiate before invading without provocation or basis" is still not an argument that Russia's actions against Ukraine were in any way provoked by NATO. You're still pushing the same incredibly lazy lie.

Russia was clearly intending to invade. Hence the threats to invade, and then the actual invasion, all without any provocation. And no, NATO not bellying up and doing whatever Russia demands is not "provocation".

[Ulmita]

If you didn't want to invade Ukraine, why would you try and extort NATO with a threat to invade Ukraine if they didn't obey your demands?

Nobody provoked Putin. This was entirely his choice. Russia was under no threat whatsoever, other than perhaps the regular economic pressures of the global market, and if you consider that a "threat" worthy of military response you're insane.

For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

When NATO started putting the anti ballistic shield in EU and Russia wanted to cooperate with them, we said no. When Russia asked for legal reassurances when we put the MK-41 launchers in Romania, that we will NOT put the nuclear capable tomahawks in there, we said no. The list goes on and on and on.

They are afraid of NATO, we keep ignoring them and this is exactly where our fault is

[Gorsameth]

Nahh, he is just imagining stuff, and he is just trying to pass them as truth. Aka the definition of propaganda.

Russia was trying to negotiate with the west up to the very last minute. Its well documented in western press.

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia...ng-2021-12-17/

Now going forward claiming that "Russia would have invaded either way" it's just his imagination and he has no way of proving that. Aka pure propaganda

"Don't protect the victims who are trying to escape from out bullying or else".
Yeah I wouldn't call that a 'negotiation'.

Again, the only reason countries around Russia want to join NATO is because that is the only protection they can get from Russia. Which Russia proved by then invading a country for trying to move away from Russia.

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For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

When NATO started putting the anti ballistic shield in EU and Russia wanted to cooperate with them, we said no. When Russia asked for legal reassurances when we put the MK-41 launchers in Romania, that we will NOT put the nuclear capable tomahawks in there, we said no. The list goes on and on and on.

They are afraid of NATO, we keep ignoring them and this is exactly where our fault is

NATO is such a big existential threat to Russia that NATO spend 2 years telling Ukraine they couldn't attack Russian soil.

....
wait...
that doesn't make sense.
Oh right, your full of shit.

The only threat NATO poses to Russia is that we don't let Russia bully countries around it.

[Ulmita]

"Don't protect the victims who are trying to escape from out bullying or else".
Yeah I wouldn't call that a 'negotiation'.

Again, the only reason countries around Russia want to join NATO is because that is the only protection they can get from Russia. Which Russia proved by then invading a country for trying to move away from Russia.

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NATO is such a big existential threat to Russia that NATO spend 2 years telling Ukraine they couldn't attack Russian soil.

....
wait...
that doesn't make sense.
Oh right, your full of shit.

The only threat NATO poses to Russia is that we don't let Russia bully countries around it.

If we, as the adults in the table, knew what would happen if we pushed for expansion, isn't our fault too? Genuine question.

As for your second part, I am very sorry that you don't understand that we poke their red lines and slowly escalating. We've been escalating like this since first year.
Now the discussion is that america will allow military contractors to go to Ukraine. Tomorrow are the F-16s etc...

Where does this stop?

[Endus]

For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

I. Don't. Care.

They're wrong, and that's all that matters. You're literally describing the anti-NATO propaganda that Russia spews. The actual leaders are well aware that NATO is a defensive pact only and the only "threat" it poses it as a barrier to Russian military expansionism.

Stop demanding that I swallow bullshit propaganda takes wholesale. The claim is not true, and I have no reason to entertain delusions as if they're reality.

When NATO started putting the anti ballistic shield in EU and Russia wanted to cooperate with them, we said no. When Russia asked for legal reassurances when we put the MK-41 launchers in Romania, that we will NOT put the nuclear capable tomahawks in there, we said no. The list goes on and on and on.

They are afraid of NATO, we keep ignoring them and this is exactly where our fault is

Russia's currently in the midst of demonstrating why we should keep ignoring those false protests. Reality's calling; Russia is a threat to their neighbours. It's not surprising those neighbours want defensive support. Russia could stop being a threat to those neighbours any time they wanted to. Defensive weaponry doesn't pose a threat to anyone that isn't planning to invade.

You're still just parroting Russian propaganda.

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If we, as the adults in the table, knew what would happen if we pushed for expansion, isn't our fault too? Genuine question.

NATO isn't pushing for expansion. That's another false claim. NATO has, in fact, been fairly resistant to adding new members.

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If we, as the adults in the table, knew what would happen if we pushed for expansion, isn't our fault too? Genuine question.

As for your second part, I am very sorry that you don't understand that we poke their red lines and slowly escalating. We've been escalating like this since first year.
Now the discussion is that america will allow military contractors to go to Ukraine. Tomorrow are the F-16s etc...

Where does this stop?

With Russia pulling out and returning to pre-2014 borders. That means giving up Crimea.

They can fuck off and get nothing for their brutality.

[Gorsameth]

If we, as the adults in the table, knew what would happen if we pushed for expansion, isn't our fault too? Genuine question.

As for your second part, I am very sorry that you don't understand that we poke their red lines and slowly escalating. We've been escalating like this since first year.
Now the discussion is that america will allow military contractors to go to Ukraine. Tomorrow are the F-16s etc...

Where does this stop?

It stops when Russia stops invading its neighbours.
Russia could end this in 2 seconds by declaring a full unilateral withdraw from all Ukraine territories and returning to pre 2014 borders.

And no, we're not at fault for the bully hitting someone when you protect others from the bully.
The blame is 100% on the bully who choses to hit people, and no one else.

[Kaleredar]

I am sorry to burst your bubble, but west is responsible for unimaginable horrors that took place in Middle East, Africa and Asia. It wasn't the rest, but us.

Also, NATO is an instrument of these horrific wars, bombings, coups etc that we did in so many countries, because it protects those countries that do those stuff.

Even now, in Ukraine war NATO's expansion is one of the main reasons that countless humans are perishing. Most of you are too brainwashed by our media to even realize what is happening, but it's ok, NATO's secretary general has said it already in public: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGepjsmKv/

As I said, the important thing is that world's majority both in population and in number of countries don't buy western propaganda.

NATO needs to either dissolve or go back to 1991 borders, ASAP. We should create our own EU army, capable of defending our borders and interests.

Why should Russia get a say what NATO does, and who can and can’t be members?

Nobody cares about what NATO is doing on a world stage. You’re not gonna change that narrative.

[Twdft]

For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

When NATO started putting the anti ballistic shield in EU and Russia wanted to cooperate with them, we said no. When Russia asked for legal reassurances when we put the MK-41 launchers in Romania, that we will NOT put the nuclear capable tomahawks in there, we said no. The list goes on and on and on.

They are afraid of NATO, we keep ignoring them and this is exactly where our fault is

Nice wife beater logic you got going there. Pathetic.

[Huehuecoyotl]

For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

And for the millionth time; RUSSIA SAYING THAT NATO IS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO JUSTIFY CARRYING OUT THE INVASION IT WANTED TO DO DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE.

And even if it were true, "I'm scared" is not a good reason to invade another country. You are scared of what? War? You just started one. Scared of appearing weak to the West? You just made it clear you are weak.

And even if NATO and the West actively support Ukraine until they kick Russia out of every square inch of their country, that support would stop the second they get to the original borders. If Ukraine took a single step onto Russian soil, all the support would be gone.

The fault for this lies with Russia. Nobody else.

[Twdft]

If we, as the adults in the table, knew what would happen if we pushed for expansion, isn't our fault too? Genuine question.

No because RUSSIA COULD HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO INVADE FFS. Attacking your neighboring sovereign nation is a fucking CHOICE that ruSSia made. It's not inevitable. It was made.

[Specialka]

What the hell is your point?

No I agree NATO isn't an EU army, but the stuff I pointed out has nothing to do with that and you are just deflecting.

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He could just quote your posts back at you.

I guess you just use the word "deflecting" because you could own your own mistake. Next time, answer to what I say and not to what I have not said.

[Mekh]

For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

When NATO started putting the anti ballistic shield in EU and Russia wanted to cooperate with them, we said no. When Russia asked for legal reassurances when we put the MK-41 launchers in Romania, that we will NOT put the nuclear capable tomahawks in there, we said no. The list goes on and on and on.

They are afraid of NATO, we keep ignoring them and this is exactly where our fault is

And criminals feel threatened when the police moves in. Your point?

[Saradain]

I am sorry to burst your bubble, but west is responsible for unimaginable horrors that took place in Middle East, Africa and Asia. It wasn't the rest, but us.

Still clinging to made up shit I see.

Also, NATO is an instrument of these horrific wars, bombings, coups etc that we did in so many countries, because it protects those countries that do those stuff.

Serbians committing genocide that was ended by NATO via UN mandate protected serbians committing the said genocide?

Even now, in Ukraine war NATO's expansion is one of the main reasons that countless humans are perishing. Most of you are too brainwashed by our media to even realize what is happening, but it's ok, NATO's secretary general has said it already in public: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGepjsmKv/

More made up shit. Russia is allowed to add members to its CSTO, but NATO isn't allowed to allow anyone seeking friendship and safety in, gotcha. Do you have any actual source or just TikTok shit? Upon viewing your "evidence", it's just a bunch of clips taken without any context for any of the clips to "make up a point". Did your turnip morale sink or why such lousy effort?

As I said, the important thing is that world's majority both in population and in number of countries don't buy western propaganda.

West bad, because a major troll such as you says so. Can't buy propaganda that doesn't exist, aye?

NATO needs to either dissolve or go back to 1991 borders, ASAP. We should create our own EU army, capable of defending our borders and interests.

NATO will not dissolve so your paymasters can conquer and subjugate. I'll wait for Russia to go to 1991 borders first. You just want several nations to lose their protective alliance, not gonna happen bud.

Also, NATO "expanded" more than once since start of the 2022 invasion. When can we expect Russia to invade Finland and Sweden since we oh-so-rudely crossed russian red lines? That's right, with Finland and Sweden willingly joining NATO, we made it impossible for Russia to reach ANY goal they ever had for mentioned nations.

And you want to reverse that. Biggest of keks.

[alach]

It's a land grab plain and simple. How it isn't obvious to everyone after three years of Putins torrent of shallow and shifting excuses is beyond me. But hey, throw in Trump and Farage and we sure live in strange times.

[diller]

I guess you just use the word "deflecting" because you could own your own mistake. Next time, answer to what I say and not to what I have not said.

I made no mistake!

I wasn't the one saying or claiming that the NATO was the EU's military, not sure why you think it's some 'gotcha'!

What I did was correct you on how NATO's financing works.

[Specialka]

I made no mistake!

I wasn't the one saying or claiming that the NATO was the EU's military, not sure why you think it's some 'gotcha'!

What I did was correct you on how NATO's financing works.

I was not saying that either. So yes, I do not know why you quoted me in the first place in what looked like a gotcha attempt.

[Mayhem]

Frankly don't get the why they named this meeting a "peace summit" instead of just a Ukraine meeting. A peace summit would involve negotiations with all the main parties involved since Russia wasn't there seems it's just a meeting with Zelensky.

Well, considering they would've needed to arrest Putin if he joined I guess inviting Russia would've been a bit too obvious.

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For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

So the brilliant move was to start a war with a non-NATO member, and weaken your country and power so that NATO becomes an even greater existential threat?

What a great strategy.

[Azadina]

So the brilliant move was to start a war with a non-NATO member, and weaken your country and power so that NATO becomes an even greater existential threat?

What a great strategy.

And to continue with that logic, NATO must now be amassing troops and equipment near the border for the final assault on greatly weakened RuZZia, shouldn't it? Has anyone see any indication? Any ruZZkies even? Ulmita, have you seen the troops being amassed?

...Or was it all just bullshit, Ulmita?

[Draco-Onis]

Well, considering they would've needed to arrest Putin if he joined I guess inviting Russia would've been a bit too obvious.

Putin didn't have to show up there's plenty of negotiators in Russia, it's a minor thing but it bothers me that they called it a peace summit when it had nothing to do with that.

[DarkAmbient]

I wonder how many troops North Korea is sending. I also wonder how many of them will take the opportunity to defect. They may as well try, it's either that or being fed feet first into the meat grinder.