Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Makabreska]

I wonder how many troops North Korea is sending. I also wonder how many of them will take the opportunity to defect. They may as well try, it's either that or being fed feet first into the meat grinder.

First time I hear NK is sending troops. Wouldn't this be like, unprecedented?

[zealo]

For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

When NATO started putting the anti ballistic shield in EU and Russia wanted to cooperate with them, we said no. When Russia asked for legal reassurances when we put the MK-41 launchers in Romania, that we will NOT put the nuclear capable tomahawks in there, we said no. The list goes on and on and on.

They are afraid of NATO, we keep ignoring them and this is exactly where our fault is

Repeating yourself doesn’t suddenly make your bullshit come true.

[DarkAmbient]

First time I hear NK is sending troops. Wouldn't this be like, unprecedented?

The source of the news is a South Korean government official. Reuters:

North Korea plans to send construction and engineering forces to Russia-occupied territories of Ukraine as early as next month for rebuilding work, South Korean cable TV network TV Chosun reported earlier, citing a South Korean government official.
Those forces, working overseas under the disguise of construction workers to earn hard currency for the regime, would be moved from China to those Russia-held regions, the network said.
Asked about the TV Chosun reports, South Korea's foreign ministry said it was continuing monitoring the situation

There's always a chance the official misspoke, although America is now warning that Putin would use North Korean troops as ‘cannon fodder'.

[Gabriel]

I am sorry to burst your bubble, but west is responsible for unimaginable horrors that took place in Middle East, Africa and Asia. It wasn't the rest, but us.

Also, NATO is an instrument of these horrific wars, bombings, coups etc that we did in so many countries, because it protects those countries that do those stuff.

Even now, in Ukraine war NATO's expansion is one of the main reasons that countless humans are perishing. Most of you are too brainwashed by our media to even realize what is happening, but it's ok, NATO's secretary general has said it already in public: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGepjsmKv/

As I said, the important thing is that world's majority both in population and in number of countries don't buy western propaganda.

NATO needs to either dissolve or go back to 1991 borders, ASAP. We should create our own EU army, capable of defending our borders and interests.

You are such a dumb cuckold, holy shit.

[Nymrohd]

I feel threatened by someone opening a similar store next door. I've often voiced it. And I have a gun. So if they insist on opening that store, I'll go shoot them and who is to blame!!!

[Karreck]

For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

That does not give them carte blanche to invade a sovereign nation, which Russia made the choice to do.

[Jastall]

For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

When NATO started putting the anti ballistic shield in EU and Russia wanted to cooperate with them, we said no. When Russia asked for legal reassurances when we put the MK-41 launchers in Romania, that we will NOT put the nuclear capable tomahawks in there, we said no. The list goes on and on and on.

They are afraid of NATO, we keep ignoring them and this is exactly where our fault is

Yes, it is such an existential threat that they're heavily reinforced their border with the NATO state that is now right next door.



Oh, wait. Darn. That's exactly the opposite of what they did, as they actually do invade a non-NATO member despite the problem allegedly being NATO. Because not being in NATO means Russia can invade you as it pleases. Which is why more countries join NATO, in order to protect themselves from Russian invasion.

Moscow can scream that NATO is the real baddie as they invade neighbor after neighbor all day long, only Russians and tankies care about it. Rest of the world doesn't buy it, or doesn't care one way or another to begin with.

Also, lol at "legal reassurances" from a country that happily breaks them all the time. That's a completely empty propaganda talking point.

[Saradain]

A reminder for @Ulmita had he actually cared about legit evidence:

Russia de-militarized most of its troops from finnish-russian border the past year.

How come? Isn't that...the NATO-Russian border? If NATO is an existential threat to Russia, why did Russia make it the simplest matter to invade itself via Finland, had NATO or Finland cared about such a goal?

I shall quote myself just for you, Ulmita, so you don't need to waste breath asking for source.

To add another point to laugh at about how NATO is totally an existential threat to Russia.

Russia has moved 80% of their military arsenal that was stationed alongside the finnish-russian border, to Ukraine. NATO so evil and aggressive that Russia doesn't even care to defend its border with Finland, 2nd newest NATO member. Russia did state they're bolstering the troops and weaponry along finnish border in response to joining NATO, but as always - Russia lies.

https://yle.fi/a/74-20093440

Link in finnish, so use a translator.

I'm sure you can use a translator and see the pictures attached.

[Xyonai]

Once more: Russia's reasons for invading Ukraine are more built on the fact Putin couldn't stand having neighbors who didn't like him, and was buttmad the attempted Rebellions he's been funding in the eastern territories never went anywhere. It's why a lot of the early excuses came down to 'We need to protect our poor Russian Speaking citizens! UwU' despite the fact that many of those scuffles and skirmishes were well on their way to fizzling out on their own.

Things weren't going as quickly as Putin would've liked, Ukraine was making moves to align itself more with Western interests (or, more simply, it deposed a Russian aligned leader who then fucked off and acted like he still ruled the country he both abandoned and looted on his way out) because, surprise, people don't like it when you fund insurgencies in their borders. So he launched a grab at Ukraine, hoping to cripple it hard enough, fast enough, to force them to the table and operated under the assumption that Zelenksy would be as self serving and cowardly as any other Eastern European Autocrat and flee as soon as shit got tough and allow Putin to appoint a stooge.

Was some of this fostered by Putin's distrust of NATO? Absolutely. But when your neighbor threatens to shoot your dog because he gets too close to his fence when it's outside, you don't give up your dog or lock him inside all the time. You tell the neighbor to fuck off, then call the Police when you find rat-poison injected hot dog pieces on your side of the fence because your neighbors demands and reactions are ultimately delusional and nonsensical, even if they're tangibly dangerous.

[Vankrys]

For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

When NATO started putting the anti ballistic shield in EU and Russia wanted to cooperate with them, we said no. When Russia asked for legal reassurances when we put the MK-41 launchers in Romania, that we will NOT put the nuclear capable tomahawks in there, we said no. The list goes on and on and on.

They are afraid of NATO, we keep ignoring them and this is exactly where our fault is

Do you really believe the west is going to be like "let's invade Russia for funzies"
Do you really think, as a citizen of a western nation i'd be ok if my president decide to invade Russia?
This is ridiculous, the west has zero interest in invading Russia. Russia has about 6,000 arguments to respond against an invasion by the west.

This paranoia the west might attack at any moment, where does it come from? Because i can tell you, we'd rather continue to make money rather than waging war.

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Once more: Russia's reasons for invading Ukraine are more built on the fact Putin couldn't stand having neighbors who didn't like him, and was buttmad the attempted Rebellions he's been funding in the eastern territories never went anywhere.

Ukraine has the most fertile land in Europe. Its underground is rich. Reserve of gas and oil had been discovered recently. Ukraine was primed for an economic boom, it only needed to rid of its inner corruption, partenariat with the EU and the protection of NATO and Ukraine could thrive. The standard of living in Kiev and other large cities would have rapidly surpassed Moscow or St pertersbourg.

Ukraine was going to be a monument to the soviet union failure the same way west germany was. This couldn't stand for Putin.

Now, win or lose, Ukraine is destroyed. Even if Ukraine win, it would take a generation to rebuild what has been lost. Looking this way, Putin already won, but at what price?

[Karreck]

U.S. warns North Korea than Russia will use North Korean troops as "cannon fodder".

https://www.politico.eu/article/vlad...odder-us-says/

If Pyongyang ever decides to send troops to fight for Russia in Ukraine its forces would be used as cannon fodder, Pentagon press secretary Gen. Pat Ryder said at a briefing on Tuesday.

“If I were North Korean military personnel management, I would be questioning my choice of sending my forces to be cannon fodder in an illegal war against Ukraine. And we’ve seen the kinds of casualties that Russian forces,” Ryder said.

Russia’s military strategy during the war has involved using its superior numbers of soldiers to overwhelm Ukraine. While it has suffered heavy losses during its illegal invasion, it has been able to replace frontline troops quickly.



Earlier this month, Russian President Vladimir Putin and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un signed a comprehensive strategic partnership treaty that commits both countries to provide military assistance to each other if either is attacked.

According to the pact, in case any one of the two sides is put in a state of war by a foreign invasion, the other side shall provide military and other assistance with all means in its possession without delay.

The treaty doesn’t mention the current war and there is no immediate indication as yet that North Korea will send troops, but Pyongyang does plan to send its military engineering unit to the occupied territories of Ukraine to undertake rebuilding work, Reuters reported citing South Korean TV Chosun channel. The troops being sent to Ukraine will likely serve as overseas workers to earn hard cash for North Korea, where the economy is strangled by international sanctions, according to TV Chosun’s report.

Pyongyang has been supplying Russia with weapons since 2023, but the country has never sent fighting troops in significant numbers to wage war in a conflict beyond the Korean Peninsula.

In February Ukrainian authorities reported shooting down at least 20 North Korean ballistic missiles Russia used in massive attacks against Ukraine since last year. North Korea has supplied more than 11,000 containers of munitions to Russia since last fall, the Washington Post reported.

Pretty obvious Putin was going to throw them directly in the meat grinder.

[Iphie]

U.S. warns North Korea than Russia will use North Korean troops as "cannon fodder".

https://www.politico.eu/article/vlad...odder-us-says/



Pretty obvious Putin was going to throw them directly in the meat grinder.

YEah, but with lousy training they're not likely to do much, and as much as "quantity is a quality all it's own" that just doesn't hold water anymore on the modern battlefield.

There's also the slight problem that Kim maybe not wants to send his army to Ukraine for fear of local problems.

[Surfd]

For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

Yeah, no. It does not matter what Russia "sees" in their own twisted psycho little warped reality bubble, the simple fact is that NATO is not "threatening" Russia in any way outside of the fact that it's existence acts as a check on Russia's ability to threaten and attack it's neighbours.

Calling NATO an Existential threat to Russia is like arguing that you joining a Home Security Monitoring Service is an existential threat to your neighbour, the kleptomaniac, because it acts as a deterrent to prevent him from breaking into your house and stealing your shit (which he has a documented history of doing to other houses in the neighbourhood).

The fact that you keep making this argument despite being shown multiple times how absolutely untenable it is is just hilarious.

[KrayZ33]

Nahh, he is just imagining stuff, and he is just trying to pass them as truth. Aka the definition of propaganda.

Russia was trying to negotiate with the west up to the very last minute. Its well documented in western press.

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia...ng-2021-12-17/

Now going forward claiming that "Russia would have invaded either way" it's just his imagination and he has no way of proving that. Aka pure propaganda

"MOSCOW, Dec 17 (Reuters) - Russia said on Friday it wanted a legally binding guarantee that NATO would give up any military activity in Eastern Europe and Ukraine, part of a wish list of security guarantees it wants to negotiate with the West.
Moscow for the first time laid out in detail demands that it says are essential for lowering tensions in Europe and defusing a crisis over Ukraine, which Western countries have accused Russia of sizing up for a potential invasion after building up troops near the border. Russia has denied planning an invasion."


lol.
So with no invasion planed, they started it 2 months after that article?
Obviously, the list of demands was outrageous in the first place, so you can hardly call it a negotiation anyway, but it's still quite funny to me that this literally went:

"Yo, get out of Ukraine/EastEurope, please"
"Why... No? Do you want to invade them?!"
"N-No... w-why would you say that?! We friendly RuSSians. (Shit Ivan, they are onto us, go attack faster!)" -> Invasion launched 2 months later.

[Nymrohd]

U.S. warns North Korea than Russia will use North Korean troops as "cannon fodder".

https://www.politico.eu/article/vlad...odder-us-says/



Pretty obvious Putin was going to throw them directly in the meat grinder.

The dictatorship throws them in the meat grinder daily by loaning them as slaves to China for jobs that even the Chinese won't do tbh.

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only Russians and tankies care about it. Rest of the world doesn't buy it, or doesn't care one way or another to begin with.

Most people on this planet are completely indifferent and plenty agree with Russia either because they have their own reasons to distrust the West and view NATO as just an arm of USA/the West. Continuously acting as if only North America, Europe, South Korea and Japan are the entire world is doing people no favors. We ain't even a third of the world. We are mostly right on this one issue but we are no moral majority (I mean, Palestine?)

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Once more: Russia's reasons for invading Ukraine are more built on the fact Putin couldn't stand having neighbors who didn't like him, and was buttmad the attempted Rebellions he's been funding in the eastern territories never went anywhere. It's why a lot of the early excuses came down to 'We need to protect our poor Russian Speaking citizens! UwU' despite the fact that many of those scuffles and skirmishes were well on their way to fizzling out on their own.

Presenting Putin as an irrational agent who acts out of caprice is doing you no favors. There are valid, illegal and immoral but still valid, reasons for Russia to intervene by force to keep yet another part of its fast disappearing economic periphery from the Single Market.

[Flarelaine]

With Russia pulling out and returning to pre-2014 borders.

I prefer "internationally recognised". That gives less room to quibble over what exact date should we return to.

[Elder Millennial]

U.S. warns North Korea than Russia will use North Korean troops as "cannon fodder".

Like this fat fuck, gives a single flying fuck what happens to his people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine

[Surfd]

U.S. warns North Korea than Russia will use North Korean troops as "cannon fodder".

https://www.politico.eu/article/vlad...odder-us-says/

Pretty obvious Putin was going to throw them directly in the meat grinder.

Pretty sure Kim be all like: wait, we get to have Russia owe us a favour AND end up with less mouths to star....er....feed? Sounds like a win win to me!

[Slant]

For the millionth time: RUSSIA IS SEING NATO AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT. It has been told by scholars, diplomats, prime ministers, military personnel A BILLION times.

When NATO started putting the anti ballistic shield in EU and Russia wanted to cooperate with them, we said no. When Russia asked for legal reassurances when we put the MK-41 launchers in Romania, that we will NOT put the nuclear capable tomahawks in there, we said no. The list goes on and on and on.

They are afraid of NATO, we keep ignoring them and this is exactly where our fault is

I think we've collectively stopped caring about what Russia thinks. Or what they say. Ultimately, we might as well break off all diplomatic connection. There's some value in listening to lies, at least you know what the other side feels strongly enough to lie about. But at this point, does it really matter? Russia is going to do Russia things. Might as well just react to the bullshit.

I'd plant a missile pointing towards Moscow with Putin's head on the warhead every 10 metres at the entire border. Just for the fun of it. What's he gonna do? Cry some more?

Also, on what planet do I need some other countries permission to do whatever the hell I want in my country? Reassurances? Why would we give anyone reassurances about anything? It's none of Russia's business. If they feel insecure about it, they can ramp up their production and plant a few missiles on their side. And guess what, we couldn't stop them, either! It's amazing how sovereignty works. They can ask. Politely. Sincerely. And we may consider it. But if the answer is no, they should fuck off - again politely - and better not sulk, because what they asked for is basically us fucking our own defense (so they can feel better when they eventually attack, cos let's face it, NATO is never the aggressor. We know it, they know it. Everyone fucking knows it).

Not our fault. Not in the slightest. And you should probably listen a little bit less to Russian propaganda.

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I prefer "internationally recognised". That gives less room to quibble over what exact date should we return to.

To quibble, you need two sides. Nobody cares what Russia thinks right now, so.. .no quibble. My understanding is that Ukraine is calling the shots. They quit, that's the new border. After that, Ukraine's going to set a new record in the NATO/EU speedrun , glitching through all the hurdles and realistically, that's all she wrote. Sorry Georgia, you're going to have to do the longplay and sort your shit out on your own.

[Iphie]

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To quibble, you need two sides. Nobody cares what Russia thinks right now, so.. .no quibble. My understanding is that Ukraine is calling the shots. They quit, that's the new border. After that, Ukraine's going to set a new record in the NATO/EU speedrun , glitching through all the hurdles and realistically, that's all she wrote. Sorry Georgia, you're going to have to do the longplay and sort your shit out on your own.

Eh...we don't particularly care about what Russia says now, but when negotiating, if in good faith, we do need a baseline to work from.

As for the bolded part: Hungary might be a big issue with Orban.