Russian invasion of Ukraine

[En Sabah Nur]

Russia officially declares war on the West, specifically the US, of course.

Don't think our very angry modern citizens in a time of economic crisis would be happy with Biden if he decided to drag us into a war with a superpower when we had enough trouble with third-world Islamic terrorists.

The difference here would be that the US was never at war with the Middle East. It would be at war with Russia. Outcomes would be very different.

[Elder Millennial]

Russia officially declares war on the West, specifically the US, of course.

Ok Russia can declare whatever the fuck It wants. How do you suspect Russia would wage said war?

It's nuclear or nothing. Russia does not have the capability to defeat Ukraine and roughly 0.02% of NATO's collective capacity given to Ukraine as hand me downs.

We are not invading Russia, no matter how much you want to jerk off to that.

So what is Russia going to do?

Self immolate?

NATO is not and had never been an existential threat to Russia. Russia can always JUST FUCK OFF out of Ukraine and the war is over.

That's the point of killing Russians in Ukraine wholesale. We need to tip the cost benefit ratio so far into cost side that the Russian public turns on the war.

A problem with the current strategy is that Russia is actually able to domestically cover up its losses. They are losing about 20000 dead and injured a month. And they can sustain this, they can hide it...until they can't. But it's hard to tell how long that will take.

On the other hand having an entire army or two wiped, losing the whole of DNR or LNR or Crimea with 50000 or 100000 dead, injured or captured would be a big enough shock that event the Kremlin couldn't cover it up, and might fucking finally shake the Russian public out of its servile stupor.

And no Yuppie. RUSSIA WILL NOT USE NUKES. Not tactical, not strategic, not any kind. There isn't a single person in Russia (including Putin) who would immolate Moscow or St Petersburg for Donbas or Crimea.

[YUPPIE]

Ok Russia can declare whatever the fuck It wants. How do you suspect Russia would wage said war?

war crimes, basically, the crux of how Russia wages war. That raping, pillaging, kidnapping, indiscriminate bombing and use of illegal bombs and chemical munitions you see in Ukraine would be applied to Western civilization (albeit not to the same success).

no one wants that.

[Gabriel]

no one wants to annex Russia, but if we decide to go to war with them (which will result in them going full psycho) and it ends with their defeat, they WILL be occupied let's not kid ourselves.

Why would we? I'm perfectly content on letting them wallow in shit in the resulting heap of ruble for the next couple centuries.

- - - Updated - - -

war crimes, basically, the crux of how Russia wages war. That raping, pillaging, kidnapping, indiscriminate bombing and use of illegal bombs and chemical munitions you see in Ukraine would be applied to Western civilization (albeit not to the same success).

no one wants that.

If Russia decides to indiscriminately bomb a NATO country, do you think we will shy away from doing the same to Russia, just hundred times worse?

[diller]

Don't give YUPPIE masturbation-fodder.

[YUPPIE]

Why would we? I'm perfectly content on letting them wallow in shit in the resulting heap of ruble for the next couple centuries.

like Japan, it's to bring them back to civilized society on paper and liberate them from their regimes. on a darker note, political and militaristic reasons would also be in play of course (see Japan-China relations).

but given this would all be happening in a hypothetical "what if we went all-out supporting Ukraine" scenario, it'd also be after Russia...you know

[Calfredd]

but given this would all be happening in a hypothetical "what if we went all-out supporting Ukraine" scenario, it'd also be after Russia...you know

It would be after Russia not launching it's nukes?

[Endus]

Russia officially declares war on the West, specifically the US, of course.

Don't think our very angry modern citizens in a time of economic crisis would be happy with Biden if he decided to drag us into a war with a superpower when we had enough trouble with third-world Islamic terrorists.

Russia is not, in any respect of any kind whatsoever, a "superpower".

[Specialka]

Russia is not, in any respect of any kind whatsoever, a "superpower".

Reality disagrees with you. They may not be the "superpower" they were aka USSR, but they are still up there though a bit behind the top three.

[Endus]

Reality disagrees with you. They may not be the "superpower" they were aka USSR, but they are still up there though a bit behind the top three.

Pretty much every metric in the modern era shows the only extant superpower to be the USA.

Russia is more akin to the UK. An ex-superpower who has lost nearly all the reach they used to hold which justified the Soviet Union holding the title.

[Elder Millennial]

war crimes, basically, the crux of how Russia wages war. That raping, pillaging, kidnapping, indiscriminate bombing and use of illegal bombs and chemical munitions you see in Ukraine would be applied to Western civilization (albeit not to the same success).

no one wants that.

Listen. I'll ask again. But I'll ask like you were a mentally ill alcoholic.

Russia, cannot beat Ukraine in a conventional war. It has been either retreating or deadlocked for 2 years.

How is Russia going to do anything to NATO? Nukes are off the table. So what is it going to do? It has no Navy to speak off. Whatever armor it can fix up is all in Ukraine. Every single base along the NATO border has been hollowed out and the troops sent to Ukraine.

So what is Russia going to do to wage war on NATO?

WITH WHAT FUCKING FORCES?

[Fuiking]

Listen. I'll ask again. But I'll ask like you were a mentally ill alcoholic.

Russia, cannot beat Ukraine in a conventional war. It has been either retreating or deadlocked for 2 years.

How is Russia going to do anything to NATO? Nukes are off the table. So what is it going to do? It has no Navy to speak off. Whatever armor it can fix up is all in Ukraine. Every single base along the NATO border has been hollowed out and the troops sent to Ukraine.

So what is Russia going to do to wage war on NATO?

WITH WHAT FUCKING FORCES?

Unicorns and fairies That are the forces they have

[Makabreska]

Listen. I'll ask again. But I'll ask like you were a mentally ill alcoholic.

Unfortunately, Yuppers tends to shut down/ignore posts that force him to make connection with reality.

[Dontrike]

Reality disagrees with you. They may not be the "superpower" they were aka USSR, but they are still up there though a bit behind the top three.

And yet there were considered #2 until three days ago. Weird how they dropped drastically like that, I wonder what happened.

[Sunseeker]

Pretty much every metric in the modern era shows the only extant superpower to be the USA.

Russia is more akin to the UK. An ex-superpower who has lost nearly all the reach they used to hold which justified the Soviet Union holding the title.

Russia is even questionably a regional power.

The very definition of "powers" is the ability to project their power(economic, social, political, military), locally, regionally, globally. Super-power simply means the ability to do that quickly, easily, and in large amounts.

These are pretty simple definitions anyone can work with. Russia has difficulty projecting their power locally. Not to say they can't at all, but it isn't much, and can't affect many. At best they are a "regional power". They have significant economic influence in the region, as well as some political influence. This influence does not extend beyond the immediate area. More distant nations where they have influence (Brazil, India, South Africa, aka: BRICS nations) are well insulated from Russia's political, economic and military power either by distance, other allies, or their own economic and social power.

China is arguably a world power, at least economically. They lack the ability to project military power beyond their region, and their political and social power is largely regional. They have more projection politically and socially thanks to Western-based companies wanting their money and those companies adjusting their international behavior, products and services to make the Chinese government happy. But a number of nations qualify by this metric, India, Germany, UK, France, Japan, S Korea, among others.

There are few nations that can do ALL the things, social influence, economic influence, political influence, military influence regionally much less globally which is exactly what makes a nation a "global super-power", being able to do ALL the things, to have their influence felt in any nation they choose by any means they choose whenever they choose.

Russia most decidedly LACKS that level of power.

[YUPPIE]

this is the last time im gonna repeat myself on this matter, but the point is, russia can cause a LOT of damage to civilian interests before they go down. Metaphorically, it would be like special forces inappropriately handling a hostage bomber; he's gonna lose and die yeah but he might kill everyone he's holding hostage. That's why we don't escalate. nothing more.

[Calfredd]

this is the last time im gonna repeat myself on this matter,

More lies and broken promises.

[Surfd]

but given this would all be happening in a hypothetical "what if we went all-out supporting Ukraine" scenario, it'd also be after Russia...you know

Dude, your "you know" is never going to happen. 99.9999999% chance that Putin falls out a window onto a bunch of bullets if he ever attempts to "you know", as while he may be a deranged lunatic willing to risk it (though I doubt even he's dumb enough to take that step), I guarantee the people down the chain of command aren't.

[Sunseeker]

this is the last time im gonna repeat myself on this matter, but the point is, russia can cause a LOT of damage to civilian interests before they go down. Metaphorically, it would be like special forces inappropriately handling a hostage bomber; he's gonna lose and die yeah but he might kill everyone he's holding hostage. That's why we don't escalate. nothing more.

So? This is the same "logic" as bailing out big corporations that were collapsing under decades of mismanagement. Yeah, lotta damage, but also room for something better.

[Endus]

this is the last time im gonna repeat myself on this matter, but the point is, russia can cause a LOT of damage to civilian interests before they go down. Metaphorically, it would be like special forces inappropriately handling a hostage bomber; he's gonna lose and die yeah but he might kill everyone he's holding hostage. That's why we don't escalate. nothing more.

Again, nobody's scared of Russia. There's no "escalation" because he poses no real threat.