Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Sunseeker]

Cyber attacks equate to indiscriminate terror attacks though. Besides knocking off bank accounts of civilians, they are capable of shutting down hospitals.

Maybe Russia and the Russian populace should have thought about that before blowing up Ukranian civilian infrastructure, including hospitals.

[Xyonai]

Constantly hilarious that pearl clutching and crying about 'muh escalation' is only coming from one side.

Russia can prod and instigate and indiscriminately murder all they want, but god forbid someone hacks their shitty banking system or blows up one of their oil refineries in response.

[Jessicka]

Russia's been doing that to countries they aren't at war with.

All that and more. They’re probably quite happy to talk about being at war with us while we sit in denial about it.

[YUPPIE]

it's less sympathy for russian civilians and the escalation thing I'm concerned about. If we get this anarchy Endus commented on (unlikely due to Russia's iron grip on dissent), then Putin would feel cornered.

[Calfredd]

then Putin would feel cornered.

And what would he do then? Kill himself like Hitler? Because he is not going to launch nukes, no matter how badly you want that to happen.

[Iliena]

Putin would feel cornered.

Good.

/10

[Sunseeker]

it's less sympathy for russian civilians and the escalation thing I'm concerned about. If we get this anarchy Endus commented on (unlikely due to Russia's iron grip on dissent), then Putin would feel cornered.

And? I don't give a shit how Putin "feels". He can end the war any day he wants and feel whichever way he wants about it. Why does anyone give a shit about Putins feefees when he is literally murdering another country?

[Kaleredar]

I'm really interested to know how Yuppie thinks this war ends in Russia's defeat if Ukraine isn't allowed to "strike back" or "escalate" in any capacity... but asking them any sort of direct question gets you a rambling, non-directed response like a crazy person on the street talking to themself, if they even respond at all.

And of course, if Yuppie's actual opinion is "Russia should win," then the least they could do is save us their continued prattle and just say that so we can safely ignore them.

[Jessicka]

it's less sympathy for russian civilians and the escalation thing I'm concerned about. If we get this anarchy Endus commented on (unlikely due to Russia's iron grip on dissent), then Putin would feel cornered.

Cornered into doing what? He's losing thousands of troops a day and more equipment than he can possibly produce. He's already pushed Russia's military far beyond its limits and destroyed its economy for a generation. He's the one who cornered himself into 'win in Ukraine at all costs', and yet he can't afford the reality of those costs. He knows this and yet he'd rather be king of the ashes of Russia than accept the facts and end the war and withdraw troops tomorrow.

[Endus]

it's less sympathy for russian civilians and the escalation thing I'm concerned about. If we get this anarchy Endus commented on (unlikely due to Russia's iron grip on dissent), then Putin would feel cornered.

In this case, he's "cornered" by Russians, in Russia. What's he gonna do? If he gets the army to roll in to suppress dissent, that's just proving my point and the ethical necessity of removing him. And the victims are his own people, who collectively put him in power. That's much more reasonable than the invasion into Ukraine, so if he has to retract forces to maintain control, that's a positive in every sense.

I could not give less of a shit how Putin feels.

[dwarven]

Cornered into doing what? He's losing thousands of troops a day and more equipment than he can possibly produce. He's already pushed Russia's military far beyond its limits and destroyed its economy for a generation. He's the one who cornered himself into 'win in Ukraine at all costs', and yet he can't afford the reality of those costs. He knows this and yet he'd rather be king of the ashes of Russia than accept the facts and end the war and withdraw troops tomorrow.

He's waiting for the election in the US to see if he should continue the war or not. If Trump wins and pulls support for Ukraine, the war will definitely continue after maybe a brief cease fire period (this will also signal to other non-nuclear states that hey if you just threaten "pushing the button" you can do what you want). If Harris wins and continues to help Ukraine, it may push him to the negotiation table sooner than later. But there won't be any cease fires or deals until the US election is over, that's a given fact.

As far as Putin being cornered goes, the Russians love to use the word "escalation" simply because everyone in the West immediately knows that hints at nuclear use and that it will scare them. Nuclear weapons are also the only real power Russia has left, so they are going to maximize that without actually firing them. The reality is, you don't get to use them without also putting a gun to your head. The last thing Putin wants is a war with the West because it would be 10x costlier to Russia than fighting Ukraine alone. I'm pretty sure this is also why he waited until Biden was elected to invade, because Trump is way too unpredictable to be launching an invasion into a country bordering a Nato country, not because Trump is "tough".

We could probably even get away with sending in actual Western air power to destroy any Russian air assets in Ukraine without Putin pressing any buttons, but clearly Nato didn't have a solid enough read on Putin to actually do it. But that's just my take on it.

Edit. One more thing I noticed that actually pretty wild. Trump is indirectly saber-rattling his voters. Have you noticed that? Lately in all of his campaign speeches he's been bringing up how he's going to "prevent WW3". Like if people don't vote for him the world will end. Seems like it's right out of Putin's playbook.

[Easo]

I really wish the posters here would finally decide whether the Russians include the supposedly oppressed minority groups of hundreds of nationalities, chiefly in Siberia, or is it just Russian Russians, in which case one might wonder why then sanction said poor oppressed minorities too.
It's almost like they have never mattered in the first place... Oh right, we have Yemen after all as an example.

Please, never ever change.

[unfilteredJW]

I really wish the posters here would finally decide whether the Russians include the supposedly oppressed minority groups of hundreds of nationalities, chiefly in Siberia, or is it just Russian Russians, in which case one might wonder why then sanction said poor oppressed minorities too.
It's almost like they have never mattered in the first place... Oh right, we have Yemen after all as an example.

Please, never ever change.

How can you tell the difference through the fOg Of WaR?

[Jessicka]

I really wish the posters here would finally decide whether the Russians include the supposedly oppressed minority groups of hundreds of nationalities, chiefly in Siberia, or is it just Russian Russians, in which case one might wonder why then sanction said poor oppressed minorities too.
It's almost like they have never mattered in the first place... Oh right, we have Yemen after all as an example.

Please, never ever change.

Same ones you hated when they were all red and you were itching to nuke?

[Endus]

I really wish the posters here would finally decide whether the Russians include the supposedly oppressed minority groups of hundreds of nationalities, chiefly in Siberia, or is it just Russian Russians, in which case one might wonder why then sanction said poor oppressed minorities too.
It's almost like they have never mattered in the first place... Oh right, we have Yemen after all as an example.

Please, never ever change.

We're talking about nationality, not ethnicity.

Ethnic Russians who're living in the USA as American citizens aren't being condemned for Putin's actions, dude. I have no idea why you're choosing to make any of this about ethnicity.

And dragging Putin down and ensuring he never engages with politics again is likely to the benefit of those oppressed minorities you're pearl-clutching about. Yes, we're concerned about them, the problem's the same problem; Putin's government.

Weird-ass tangent that doesn't seem to understand anyone's arguments, dude.

[Corvus]

Those minorities are forming much of the cannon fodder in the war. Those that are opposed to the government aren't taking part - indeed there are quite a few fighting for Ukraine to help liberate their homelands. But many are quite happy to fight for russia.

Meanwhile, the Russian milibloggers and commentators are really not happy about the Massacre in Mali. Especially given it was done by Africans against the Uber-manly russians. White man can't be beaten like that so they are coming up with all sorts of excuses - it was actually the Ukrainians, not the Africans, that there was a sandstorm at the time (which didn't prevent a helicopter flying and being shot down and didn't hinder the ambushers, just the russians), that there were many thousands of Africans involved in the attack or that there was a particular inept commander in charge who just blundered around with no scouts. Take your pick - they haven't decided on the narrative yet.

- - - Updated - - -

5 days ago the sign up bonus in Moscow hit 1.9 million rubles. It has now already been increased to 2.1 million. Monthly salary is 210k, with another 50k chipped in by the the city of Moscow, plus combat bonuses, plus privileges, such as suspension of property tax, state subsidised mortgages (and with 18% interest rates, you'd need one), and suspension of all ongoing criminal and administrative proceedings. Open to any males aged 18-65, even with criminal records. No physical requirements, except absence of things like HIV and hepatitis (but plenty of those have been shipped to the front anyway.) It is also open to anyone in russia, not just in Moscow. St Petersburg has now raised their bonus to 1.9 million.

Given each region has quota's for manpower, it is obvious the richer regions are trying to buy recruits that they can't get internally. Plus it is getting harder to find willing volunteers. The average salary in the defence industry has passed 100k a month, with specialist roles hitting 150k/month. It is far safer in those positions, and that is good money in russia, especially given labour shortages. Hence the rapidly growing outrageous sign up bonuses in an effort to keep up with losses.

[Kaleredar]

Those minorities are forming much of the cannon fodder in the war. Those that are opposed to the government aren't taking part - indeed there are quite a few fighting for Ukraine to help liberate their homelands. But many are quite happy to fight for russia.

Meanwhile, the Russian milibloggers and commentators are really not happy about the Massacre in Mali. Especially given it was done by Africans against the Uber-manly russians. White man can't be beaten like that so they are coming up with all sorts of excuses - it was actually the Ukrainians, not the Africans, that there was a sandstorm at the time (which didn't prevent a helicopter flying and being shot down and didn't hinder the ambushers, just the russians), that there were many thousands of Africans involved in the attack or that there was a particular inept commander in charge who just blundered around with no scouts. Take your pick - they haven't decided on the narrative yet.

- - - Updated - - -

5 days ago the sign up bonus in Moscow hit 1.9 million rubles. It has now already been increased to 2.1 million. Monthly salary is 210k, with another 50k chipped in by the the city of Moscow, plus combat bonuses, plus privileges, such as suspension of property tax, state subsidised mortgages (and with 18% interest rates, you'd need one), and suspension of all ongoing criminal and administrative proceedings. Open to any males aged 18-65, even with criminal records. No physical requirements, except absence of things like HIV and hepatitis (but plenty of those have been shipped to the front anyway.) It is also open to anyone in russia, not just in Moscow. St Petersburg has now raised their bonus to 1.9 million.

Given each region has quota's for manpower, it is obvious the richer regions are trying to buy recruits that they can't get internally. Plus it is getting harder to find willing volunteers. The average salary in the defence industry has passed 100k a month, with specialist roles hitting 150k/month. It is far safer in those positions, and that is good money in russia, especially given labour shortages. Hence the rapidly growing outrageous sign up bonuses in an effort to keep up with losses.

Don’t gotta pay salaries to dead people!

[YUPPIE]

I'm really interested to know how Yuppie thinks this war ends in Russia's defeat if Ukraine isn't allowed to "strike back" or "escalate" in any capacity

the way the US wants Ukraine to win is to just kill all the invading Russians on Ukrainian soil but not actually engage in attacks on Moscow itself.

[Deus Mortis]

Those minorities are forming much of the cannon fodder in the war. Those that are opposed to the government aren't taking part - indeed there are quite a few fighting for Ukraine to help liberate their homelands. But many are quite happy to fight for russia.

Meanwhile, the Russian milibloggers and commentators are really not happy about the Massacre in Mali. Especially given it was done by Africans against the Uber-manly russians. White man can't be beaten like that so they are coming up with all sorts of excuses - it was actually the Ukrainians, not the Africans, that there was a sandstorm at the time (which didn't prevent a helicopter flying and being shot down and didn't hinder the ambushers, just the russians), that there were many thousands of Africans involved in the attack or that there was a particular inept commander in charge who just blundered around with no scouts. Take your pick - they haven't decided on the narrative yet.

- - - Updated - - -

5 days ago the sign up bonus in Moscow hit 1.9 million rubles. It has now already been increased to 2.1 million. Monthly salary is 210k, with another 50k chipped in by the the city of Moscow, plus combat bonuses, plus privileges, such as suspension of property tax, state subsidised mortgages (and with 18% interest rates, you'd need one), and suspension of all ongoing criminal and administrative proceedings. Open to any males aged 18-65, even with criminal records. No physical requirements, except absence of things like HIV and hepatitis (but plenty of those have been shipped to the front anyway.) It is also open to anyone in russia, not just in Moscow. St Petersburg has now raised their bonus to 1.9 million.

Given each region has quota's for manpower, it is obvious the richer regions are trying to buy recruits that they can't get internally. Plus it is getting harder to find willing volunteers. The average salary in the defence industry has passed 100k a month, with specialist roles hitting 150k/month. It is far safer in those positions, and that is good money in russia, especially given labour shortages. Hence the rapidly growing outrageous sign up bonuses in an effort to keep up with losses.

It must hurt to be Wagner these days, before 2018 they were regarded in far higher esteem at least to laymen. Since then they posted a 0 to 200+ k/d ratio in Syria against a dozen US forces, they lost 80 or so in Mali against forces that should never rack up that type of count. It was bad when the US lost 4 special forces in Tongo Tongo ambush, could only imagine if we lost 80. Finally they lost 20k soldiers to take a completely destroyed city. Watching Russia slowly degrade itself has been interesting to watch, sadly it has come at the cost of too many innocent lives.

[PhaelixWW]

the way the US wants Ukraine to win is to just kill all the invading Russians on Ukrainian soil but not actually engage in attacks on Moscow itself.

This is entirely wrong, sorry.