Russian invasion of Ukraine

[PhaelixWW]

how is it wrong? If not for this defensive warfare logic, the US would have already given Ukraine maximum support.

You keep saying things as if they're fact when they're not.

Why?

[YUPPIE]

You keep saying things as if they're fact when they're not.

Why?

that means you yourself are implying what we read on the news isn't fact and we don't and never really will know the actual facts, because multiple times we've seen articles of Joe Biden stating he won't let Ukraine strike into the heart of Russia

[Calfredd]

that means you yourself are implying what we read on the news isn't fact and we don't and never really will know the actual facts, because multiple times we've seen articles of Joe Biden stating he won't let Ukraine strike into the heart of Russia

It would really help if you stopped lying and substituting reality with your drunken hallucinations.

[PhaelixWW]

that means you yourself are implying what we read on the news isn't fact and we don't and never really will know the actual facts, because multiple times we've seen articles of Joe Biden stating he won't let Ukraine strike into the heart of Russia

And yet that's not what you stated earlier. You added on a few layers of supposition and theory and presented the whole thing as fact.

In other words, you're peddling conspiracy theory bullshit.

[Saradain]

I really wish the posters here would finally decide whether the Russians include the supposedly oppressed minority groups of hundreds of nationalities, chiefly in Siberia, or is it just Russian Russians, in which case one might wonder why then sanction said poor oppressed minorities too.
It's almost like they have never mattered in the first place... Oh right, we have Yemen after all as an example.

Please, never ever change.

Unlike the russian propagandaposters, the ones who are not them, are individuals with their own opinions. Try that and you might be surprised!

You hate this thread, you hate this thread's posters, but you come here, only to sneer and then leave for a time until repeating the cycle. Why is that? Hmm...

[ringpriest]

As far as Putin being cornered goes, the Russians love to use the word "escalation" simply because everyone in the West immediately knows that hints at nuclear use and that it will scare them. Nuclear weapons are also the only real power Russia has left, so they are going to maximize that without actually firing them. The reality is, you don't get to use them without also putting a gun to your head. The last thing Putin wants is a war with the West because it would be 10x costlier to Russia than fighting Ukraine alone. I'm pretty sure this is also why he waited until Biden was elected to invade, because Trump is way too unpredictable to be launching an invasion into a country bordering a Nato country, not because Trump is "tough".

Putin didn't invade Ukraine during Trump's term of office, because he believed he had a good chance of getting what he wanted without a larger invasion, because Donald Trump was actively working to delay American military aid to Ukraine. Once Biden was elected (the US Congress is pro-Ukraine aid, even if many Republicans are willing catspaws for Putin), it became clear to Putin that his regime would never have a better chance to seize Ukraine by a coup de main, and the planning for the invasion began almost immediately.

And, although few people remember it now, Putin and his cronies did not think they were starting the war they are now fighting. Like many fools throughout history, they expected a "short, victorious war" that would subjugate Ukraine, bringing them and their regime multiple benefits. They, like many Western intelligence agencies, expected a Ukrainian collapse and withdrawal to the west of the Dnieper (if not complete surrender to terms dictated by Putin). Once the people and military of Ukraine heroically stood firm and demonstrated they were willing to pay whatever price their continued freedom required, Putin (and the hollow Russian military) was fucked. Any victory will be Pyrrhic, now. I expect he's continuing the war under the hope something, somehow breaks in his favor, because "losing" will likely result in his fall from power (and death) and he does not care about the long term damage he's already done to Russia.

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We're talking about nationality, not ethnicity.

Ethnic Russians who're living in the USA as American citizens aren't being condemned for Putin's actions, dude. I have no idea why you're choosing to make any of this about ethnicity.

And dragging Putin down and ensuring he never engages with politics again is likely to the benefit of those oppressed minorities you're pearl-clutching about. Yes, we're concerned about them, the problem's the same problem; Putin's government.

Weird-ass tangent that doesn't seem to understand anyone's arguments, dude.

He's talking about the difference between 'Rossisskii' (Российские) and 'Russkie' (РУсские). Russia was, and is, a multi-ethnic empire that revolves around Moscow (with St. Petersburg as almost a distant extension of Moscow). Rossisskii are Russian citizens (everyone in the empire), while Russkie are ethnic Russians. (How Russians identify changes over time - official or even academic numbers are not accurate, as someone with a Russkie grandparent or great-grandparent might identify as 'Russkie' (ethnic Russian) in order to avoid (more) discrimination, even if they live as de facto members of an ethnic minority.) As the Ukraine war went on, Putin's new recruits (the cannon fodder dying en masse) are overwhelmingly coming from Rossisskii, not Russkie; this war is also a deliberate genocide by Putin of Russia's ethnic minorities - many of which will likely never recover from losing an entire generation of young men in Ukraine.

I agree with you that there's little to nothing the West or Ukraine can do about it (short of better support for Ukraine to end the war faster), but it is a horrific and generally understated cost of the war. And it's getting clear that Putin is largely out of ethnic minorities to feed to his death machine. While he's demonstrated a talent for squeezing blood from stones, sooner or later the conscription will start hitting ethnic Russians, including the sons of Moscovites and their relatives... and that might end him even more surely than losing the war will.

[Orange Joe]

The US is likely entering a civil war soon so that will be a big problem for Ukraine when we're at each others throats. Whether Biden or Trump wins, I don't see the opposing side sitting down quietly as we saw with the White House siege and recent assassination attempt. Zelenksy has been talking about Trump a lot lately, boasting Ukraine will still be able to fight even if he enters office again, as if implying Trump is more than likely to win elections. More importantly, he's also implying Trump will undoubtedly do everything in his power to undermine Ukraine with these speeches without outright saying it.

Very terrifying times.

Do you go in 4 year cycles or something?

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There are countless post from that person, that swears, bullies and calls me a "Russian paid actor" which i won't tolarate any longer.

The fact that the mods turn their heads away from his behavior over and over again, is worrying to say the least. It's is as if they are harboring users who constantly violate the rights of others.

As for the poster that I am referring to, don't bother editing your posts, I'll ask for the backup.

Why be upset with the truth?

[Doomcookie]

I really wish the posters here would finally decide whether the Russians include the supposedly oppressed minority groups of hundreds of nationalities, chiefly in Siberia, or is it just Russian Russians, in which case one might wonder why then sanction said poor oppressed minorities too.
It's almost like they have never mattered in the first place... Oh right, we have Yemen after all as an example.

Please, never ever change.

That seems like something that Putin should address.

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the way the US wants Ukraine to win is to just kill all the invading Russians on Ukrainian soil but not actually engage in attacks on Moscow itself.

You are arguing against your previous statement.

Perhaps the two of you should get on the same page.

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that means you yourself are implying what we read on the news isn't fact and we don't and never really will know the actual facts, because multiple times we've seen articles of Joe Biden stating he won't let Ukraine strike into the heart of Russia

No it isn't, that's what you want to believe.

[YUPPIE]

Do you go in 4 year cycles or something?

that'd be funny if the US wasn't violently occupied with two sides on the verge of erupting.

Remember the last time I predicted the Trump supporters would siege the White House. And recently we had an assassination attempt.

This kind of anarchy is what Putin wants. And as someone mentioned, he's betting it all on the upcoming elections with Trump.

[Doomcookie]

that'd be funny if the US wasn't violently occupied with two sides on the verge of erupting.

Remember the last time I predicted the Trump supporters would siege the White House. And recently we had an assassination attempt.

This kind of anarchy is what Putin wants. And as someone mentioned, he's betting it all on the upcoming elections with Trump.

Since you are a Trump supporter, this is probably something you first need to address within yourself.

Feel free to let us all know when you recognize you've been wrong the entire time, and vow to make amends.

[Orange Joe]

that'd be funny if the US wasn't violently occupied with two sides on the verge of erupting.

Remember the last time I predicted the Trump supporters would siege the White House. And recently we had an assassination attempt.

This kind of anarchy is what Putin wants. And as someone mentioned, he's betting it all on the upcoming elections with Trump.

You didn't predict anything. They didn't siege the white house.

[Edge-]

You didn't predict anything. They didn't siege the white house.

To be fair, many of them thought it was the White House.

[Easo]

Same ones you hated when they were all red and you were itching to nuke?

You might have mistaken me for Yuppie. As for the reds - I think you may want to speak with Gabriel, he has the biggest hate boner here, after all "he was taught to hate Russians" if I remember correctly.

We're talking about nationality, not ethnicity.

Ethnic Russians who're living in the USA as American citizens aren't being condemned for Putin's actions, dude. I have no idea why you're choosing to make any of this about ethnicity.

And dragging Putin down and ensuring he never engages with politics again is likely to the benefit of those oppressed minorities you're pearl-clutching about. Yes, we're concerned about them, the problem's the same problem; Putin's government.

Weird-ass tangent that doesn't seem to understand anyone's arguments, dude.

"Russians". That simple and should be self explanatory. Do not pretend to not understand, have a spine.

Unlike the russian propagandaposters, the ones who are not them, are individuals with their own opinions. Try that and you might be surprised!

You hate this thread, you hate this thread's posters, but you come here, only to sneer and then leave for a time until repeating the cycle. Why is that? Hmm...

I don't hate you (not even the genius who said that thing about cum gargling), I just think very lowly of you. Why I am here? It's like with drugs, WoW, or anything else. Gotta get that fix.
You do not understand why I slowly changed my opinion about things related to this war, nor do you want to - not much I can do about it.

[Saradain]

I don't hate you (not even the genius who said that thing about cum gargling), I just think very lowly of you. Why I am here? It's like with drugs, WoW, or anything else. Gotta get that fix.
You do not understand why I slowly changed my opinion about things related to this war, nor do you want to - not much I can do about it.

You can then try to "be the bigger man". Do tell me what changed in your opinion. My first memory of you in this thread was the whole "fog of war" thing, as if russians would have been an overwhelmingly impossible to defeat enemy, with any misfortune that was reported, being made up because of this fog of war.

Have you changed that opinion to more pro-Ukraine way of things or did I get it entirely wrong?

It is hard to understand your opinion when you often pop here to mock the other posters, then vanish without usually trying to make a discussion or defending your viewpoint.

And perhaps the mutual low opinion of each other keeps happening when you were proved wrong, and you vanished for a year only to return....rather arrogant.

[Gabriel]

You might have mistaken me for Yuppie. As for the reds - I think you may want to speak with Gabriel, he has the biggest hate boner here, after all "he was taught to hate Russians" if I remember correctly.

I don't hate Russians, I hate Russia. Learn the difference. Tho I suspect you mischaracterize me on purpose.

[Endus]

"Russians". That simple and should be self explanatory. Do not pretend to not understand, have a spine.

I understand. You're being dishonest.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians

"There are two Russian words which are commonly translated into English as "Russians". One is русские (russkiye), which in modern Russia most often means "ethnic Russians". The other one is россияне (rossiyane), derived from Россия (Rossiya, Russia), which denotes "people of Russia", regardless of ethnicity or religious affiliation. In daily usage, those terms are often mixed up, and since Vladimir Putin became president, the ethnic term русские has supplanted the non-ethnic term."

We've all been talking about the latter, citizens of the nation of Russia. You're the one who tried to confuse things by bringing up minority ethnicities in Russia other than the ethnic Rus majority.

[Huehuecoyotl]

You do not understand why I slowly changed my opinion about things related to this war, nor do you want to - not much I can do about it.

You "changed your mind" because your "mind" was all about how Russia were rolling over Ukraine, that any good news for Ukraine could be ignored as "fog of war" and anything that came out of Russia had to be believed implicitly. You were constantly telling us that it would all be over quickly with Russia victorious.

If that opinion hadn't changed at all, you'd be looking even sillier today than you did back then.

But in terms of your general posting, your dishonesty and one sided approach hasn't really changed. Your standpoint on things is still pretty clear, even if you've had to adapt to the reality of this conflict.

[Corvus]

Sign up bonuses in Moscow have jumped yet again. Its now up to 2.245 million rubles after only just being increased to 2.1 a couple of days ago. Really does seem to be spiralling out of control, along with inflation and interest rates. Question is do they do another mobilisation given they are obviously having trouble buying meat to be thrown into the grinder with such rapid bonus increases.

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Looks like the Tuaregs have some friends helping with their Wagner issue.

[Poopymonster]

Sign up bonuses in Moscow have jumped yet again. Its now up to 2.245 million rubles after only just being increased to 2.1 a couple of days ago. Really does seem to be spiralling out of control, along with inflation and interest rates. Question is do they do another mobilisation given they are obviously having trouble buying meat to be thrown into the grinder with such rapid bonus increases.

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Looks like the Tuaregs have some friends helping with their Wagner issue.

Bonus payment? In account next week.

Sorry, account closed after premature death on 3 day excursion. No payment.

[Easo]

You can then try to "be the bigger man". Do tell me what changed in your opinion. My first memory of you in this thread was the whole "fog of war" thing, as if russians would have been an overwhelmingly impossible to defeat enemy, with any misfortune that was reported, being made up because of this fog of war.

Have you changed that opinion to more pro-Ukraine way of things or did I get it entirely wrong?

It is hard to understand your opinion when you often pop here to mock the other posters, then vanish without usually trying to make a discussion or defending your viewpoint.

And perhaps the mutual low opinion of each other keeps happening when you were proved wrong, and you vanished for a year only to return....rather arrogant.

I really doubt you are sincere and I do not want to write A4 page of Why, but I will give you the short one (as short as it can be, lol) and if you will actually want to - I can write that wall of text.
Read back the posts - my reaction at the start was rage and anger at Russia, starting with the very first post saying that the war has started. Right now, however, it has changed to fuck everyone and interest in the war has switched to sardonic memes like the upcoming "Russians have taken New York".


Just some rant here, then:

Lies about Russian missile attacks (Buks back in Kiev since day 1, then the usual S-300 "ground attack mode" open bullshit). Executing and torturing PoWs (not a single one ever convicted and this thread denied or excused every single case) , "flechetes", various killings of important people (Denis Kireev case was the best one, the official claims changed a few times... xD), etc.

Russia is going to run out XXXXXX/YYYY/ZZZZZ, Russia is stealing washing machines for rockets (and you actually believed that), Russia's economy will collapse, "whole world is against Russia (insert China's meme about "whole world" here), etc. 3rd year and stories are still being changed and "you misunderstood". Ah - fighting with shovels, too, can't forget that.

All Ukraine's claims are taken at face value aside from the most crazy ones, everything Russia says is lies because "Russia has always lied!!! /iamverysmart"

Basic, blatant and all encompassing russophobia, destruction of historical legacy and attempts to change history, fucking with the religion - all of this chiefly in Ukraine, but also in Baltics and elsewhere.
Add to this every single fucking ever stereotype about the fucking dumb Russians, add to this the usual infamous Western arrogance. You actually do think that you are better than "vile savages from the East" and you do not believe in equality, the words are empty and always have been.

Can't forget the "Ukraine does not target civilians" and "Russia is bombing Donetsk themselves", they must be Jesuses. In the meantime gore galore... All the recent FPV strikes, like the one on public transport bus (oh right, you don't know, because of course you don't).

All the fucking Nazi creeps - I have not forgotten the tatooed freaks that came out of Azovstal or were caught elsewhere, who are now "heroes". Good Nazis, lol, as long as they are against Russia I guess.

2023 - the year of Great Counterattack and the absolute gigabrains here still going on about success in September when the Ukraine did not even breach the first line of defense and the whole thing fell appart in a month. Фортеця Robotyne and "bushes stopping the attack"

Every Western "game changer" which then inevitably got destroyed and then it changed to "it doesn't matter, only Russia cares, it's just equipment". Every retarded raid in Russia with Western donated gear by TOTALLY INDEPENDENT RUSSIAN REBEL UNITS leading to large losses amongst the invaders and dead civilians over the border - great success, we have like almost taken Belhorod (yes, with H), dude, har har Russia can't protect anything.

Absolutely wrong conclusions about Ukraine's counterattacks in 2022 - from "meat waves" actually done by Ukraine with 3-4 to 1 advantage and NOT Russia, why Herson was retaken (no, 2 months of Mad Maxing and suffering stupidly large losses was not the success you think it was) or why it was still a failure for Ukraine which showed it's weakness (free orderly retreat - should have been the sign), why everything got stuck around Svatove-Kreminna line, etc.
Worst of all - seemingly by the Western planners too (or even worse - they knew but let Ukraine continue).

Oh yeah, busification campaign - this thread pretends it does not exist. Tisa swimmer club is also growing. Ukraine is so free it shoots people trying to escape to Romania.

And before you go - but Russia!!! - I don't care. We can assume by default Russia is bad, evil, yada yada - sure, let it be so. My problem is why Ukraine, the supposed democractic freedom loving Western leaning and totally not backwards barbaric shithole like Russia is doing the same things Russia is accused of and is getting scot free. Why it always has an excuse, why there basically is a mirror situation with Russia where Russia doing something is bad and Ukraine doing the same is good.
Normally that is called hypocrisy - but I already talked about arrogance, so... And this is my main issue - the hypocrisy and then the lies.

Yeah... This forum and "I don't have to know Russian to understand this conflict", "Russian narratives", "Telegram bullshit" etc. etc. etc.
Could write more and more, about topics as to why the so called experts failed, why analytics failed, why "~5% NATO budget" only is bullshit, etc. It's so much that I cannot even remember all of it (and I have a nice bookmark folder with hundreds of nasty things - most by Ukraine).



P.S.

My opinion about the future is very simple - Ukraine has lost the war and the only question is what it will have to give during the inevitable peace talks. 1991. borders have died even in the official media.
Things like these will only increase in frequency and you will find out that while Ukraine is large it is not endless, but Russia is not going to run out anything (must be all those washing machines, son):
https://x.com/J_JHelin/status/1817628269740773609

I can absolutely imagine the 5 stages of grief and the cope after the war - if Ukraine survives the war then any territorial losses (and millions of people already) will be written off and victory claimed, while "Russia lost" will be screamed at every corner.