Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Vampiregenesis]

No, Anatolia was 100% on Greece. We overreached well beyond what Sevres allowed when we had no support and we committed atrocities against the Turks. Their lack of assistance to civilians later during Smyrni was a moral stain on them but the mistakes are entirely on our governance, both the royalists and Venizelists. We are not a pawn when our elected governments choose to act and fuck everything up. Even with the Civil War, the Communist Party's idiocy was to blame; any reading of history can show that if they had followed Tito's path they could have forced Greece into a Third World country if they did not follow Soviet command to stand down (which would have been even more catastrophic).

And yes, we would not have won WWII on our own. That is indeed true. Congratulations.

None of this has anything to do with the situation in Greece after Metapolitefsi. None of this explains why Ukraine should not have the right of self-determination. Should not seek security against Russia after the invasion of Crimea a decade ago. Should not seek access to the largest market in the planet.

Our elected government was a pawn of the west of that time, the entente and of course Lloyd George, just like Ukraine is a pawn of the US now, we started an irrational campaign based on promises of support but the real goal of the west was to weaken severely both us and the Turks, they never wanted us to win this. It's the exact same with Ukraine now, Ukraine started acting irrationally against Russia by suppressing its eastern russophile population and having nato aspirations, this was all done due to promises of the west again, now they are being used to weaken Russia, the west doesn't want them to win. None of this would happen if the west didn't intervene in this region.

Lets see how many of them will like the west after the war.

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None of this has anything to do with the situation in Greece after Metapolitefsi. None of this explains why Ukraine should not have the right of self-determination. Should not seek security against Russia after the invasion of Crimea a decade ago. Should not seek access to the largest market in the planet. By your reasoning, Turkey should invade us. And we should invade Albania. Realism did not give security to the world, liberalism did (I thought it was constructivism but we can see that failed).

Turkey would invade us if we had a Zelensky for Prime Minister, he can easily trigger this by extending our island territorial waters to 12 miles or start carpet bombing the turks on west thrace or removing their language from schools or bomb Kemal's house, I wonder why we don't do these things? in theory we have the right to do them, at least some of them, so why not?

This is precisely what Ukraine did.

I wouldn't be surprised if they create a Zelensky in Greece too since Turkey is becoming too big and bothersome for them.

[Nymrohd]

Our elected government was a pawn of the west of that time, the entente and of course Lloyd George, just like Ukraine is a pawn of the US now, we started an irrational campaign based on promises of support but the real goal of the west was to weaken severely both us and the Turks, they never wanted us to win this. It's the exact same with Ukraine now, Ukraine started acting irrationally against Russia by suppressing its eastern russophile population and having nato aspirations, this was all done due to promises of the west again, now they are being used to weaken Russia, the west doesn't want them to win. None of this would happen if the west didn't intervene in this region.

Lets see how many of them will like the west after the war.

European countries and to a lesser extent the US offered alternatives for trade to Russia. That's all there is to this. Ukrainians saw an options for trade with the vastly better trade partner that is the Single Market and also saw how quality of life was booming for many former soviet countries after Eastern expansion and wanted in. While Russia frames this around security concerns, the reality has always been economic.
And there is little evidence it was ever warranted
https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryPr...MPRT-PRTNR-SHR

The ones who displaced Russia from Ukraine's trade balance were not the EU or the US. It was evidently China.

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I wouldn't be surprised if they create a Zelensky in Greece too since Turkey is becoming too big and bothersome for them.

You realize that everything you said was happening (a version of it) BEFORE Zelensky was elected right? But the Russian propaganda is very much focused on his person.

[Vampiregenesis]

European countries and to a lesser extent the US offered alternatives for trade to Russia. That's all there is to this. Ukrainians saw an options for trade with the vastly better trade partner that is the Single Market and also saw how quality of life was booming for many former soviet countries after Eastern expansion and wanted in. While Russia frames this around security concerns, the reality has always been economic.
And there is little evidence it was ever warranted
https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryPr...MPRT-PRTNR-SHR

The ones who displaced Russia from Ukraine's trade balance were not the EU or the US. It was evidently China.

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You realize that everything you said was happening (a version of it) BEFORE Zelensky was elected right? But the Russian propaganda is very much focused on his person.

Of course it did but Zelensky was meant to finalize it instead of respecting minsk and follow a more moderate route. It's ironic because Zelensky was elected with a pro-russia agenda. He fooled his own people.

[PhaelixWW]

I see we're back into the whack-a-doodle conspiracy theory portion of tonight's entertainment.

[Flarelaine]

Please return to posting on topic.

The thread is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine and not Greek history or assorted conspiracy theories. And lay off the cost-of-living crisis as well before you get me started.

You are free to create dedicated threads for any of those.

[diller]

NATO are five countries, US, Canada, UK, France, Germany - the Saxon alliance, everyone else is pretty much a fodder meat for them and racially inferior.

What a bunch of bullshit - if you actually believe this there is no point in interacting with you.

[Nymrohd]

There is no saving you if you genuinely think that Trumpism is anything to do with protecting the little people.

Trumpism is about giving the rich more tools to fuck you up the arse. Not less.

I think you will find a positive correlation between people who favour Trump, people who favour Russia and people who define everything in the terms of grievance against the Other. After all the entire argument in favour of Russia is founded on accepting Russia's right to act on perceived grievance instead of condemning their own acts. It is feelings over facts because populism is the most successful erosive force against democracy.

[diller]

I dunno, I feel like it's pretty good at self-policing. The nonsense is usually assaulted by evidence and facts instead of just being ignored. Would these people realize how strange their theories were if they had just been banned?

Do you seriously think they are willing to let facts change their opinions?

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Because the European Union and German loans saved us right?

Our country was great prior the EU and Eurozone with an advancing infrastructure and well performing economy and now it's second poorest in the EU

Because you lived on borrowed money.

[Vampiregenesis]

Do you seriously think they are willing to let facts change their opinions?

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Because you lived on borrowed money.

ehm the mod said not to talk about my country but no I'm talking prior to 2000, way before that. We werent rich but none complained. Eurozone ruined everything.

[Valdhammer]

ehm the mod said not to talk about my country but no I'm talking prior to 2000, way before that. We werent rich but none complained. Eurozone ruined everything.

As someone born and raised in the Balkans, I am well used to hearing “the West ruined my country” argument. Living in America now, I hear a variation on the same theme “foreigners ruined America”.

It’s all nonsense. No one ruined Greece but the Greeks and no one ruined America but the Americans.

[alach]

I'd argue neither are ruined. But I get you point.

[Poopymonster]

I'd argue neither are ruined. But I get you point.

As an American, it's not for a lack of trying.

[Corvus]

Drones hit a russian airfield deep in russia, which houses at least a quarter of its su35s. Looks like they hit the weapons storage as there was one hell of an explosion as a result.

https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1819593716425765068

[Vampiregenesis]

Drones hit a russian airfield deep in russia, which houses at least a quarter of its su35s. Looks like they hit the weapons storage as there was one hell of an explosion as a result.

https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1819593716425765068

-> Airfield Hit
-> Deep in Russia
-> Gigantic Explosion

Now that Ukraine starts to form an airforce, would it be paranoid to think that Russia will start targeting NATO airfields where Ukrainian aircrafts are located? Russia did not do that until now because Ukraine did not have an airforce, but what now that they start importing aircrafts? they have to respond that, don't they?

Meanwhile Russia is very close at conquering Pokrovsk, they seem to have endless supplies of everything and a functional economy, the west underestimated the impact of Asia, it is the savior of Russia.

[Shadowferal]

Now that Ukraine starts to form an airforce, would it be paranoid to think that Russia will start targeting NATO airfields where Ukrainian aircrafts are located?

That paranoia likely already exists. It's healthy to keep everyone on their collective toes.
As such It's not likely to happen.

[Gorsameth]

-> Airfield Hit
-> Deep in Russia
-> Gigantic Explosion

Now that Ukraine starts to form an airforce, would it be paranoid to think that Russia will start targeting NATO airfields where Ukrainian aircrafts are located? Russia did not do that until now because Ukraine did not have an airforce, but what now that they start importing aircrafts? they have to respond that, don't they?

Meanwhile Russia is very close at conquering Pokrovsk, they seem to have endless supplies of everything and a functional economy, the west underestimated the impact of Asia, it is the savior of Russia.

...
God I hope Russia attacks NATO airfields. The Russians in Ukraine would get a taste of real shock and awe.

No you Russian troll, Russia is not going to strike NATO.

Will they attempt to strike Ukrainian airfields which house F-16s? I assume they are all solidly in patriot coverage

[Endus]

-> Airfield Hit
-> Deep in Russia
-> Gigantic Explosion

Now that Ukraine starts to form an airforce, would it be paranoid to think that Russia will start targeting NATO airfields where Ukrainian aircrafts are located? Russia did not do that until now because Ukraine did not have an airforce, but what now that they start importing aircrafts? they have to respond that, don't they?

Meanwhile Russia is very close at conquering Pokrovsk, they seem to have endless supplies of everything and a functional economy, the west underestimated the impact of Asia, it is the savior of Russia.

If Russia hits a NATO airfield, Russia will cease to exist as a functional nation. They have zero capacity to handle the combined forces of NATO responding to such aggression. They can't handle just Ukraine using everyone else's surplus or castoffs, why do you think they'd be able to handle the combined military might of NATO proper?

Also, lol at the idea of "functional economy". https://www.newsweek.com/russian-eco...f-says-1932691

[Logwyn]

...
God I hope Russia attacks NATO airfields. The Russians in Ukraine would get a taste of real shock and awe.

No you Russian troll, Russia is not going to strike NATO.

Will they attempt to strike Ukrainian airfields which house F-16s? I assume they are all solidly in patriot coverage

I still think that NATO has some form of Anti-Nuke umbrella that will deal with any Nukes Russia can launch as well. Russian strike on NATO territory would see the unleashing of shock and awe on a level never before seen in human history from NATO and Allies.

[Jessicka]

-> Airfield Hit
-> Deep in Russia
-> Gigantic Explosion

Now that Ukraine starts to form an airforce, would it be paranoid to think that Russia will start targeting NATO airfields where Ukrainian aircrafts are located? Russia did not do that until now because Ukraine did not have an airforce, but what now that they start importing aircrafts? they have to respond that, don't they?

Meanwhile Russia is very close at conquering Pokrovsk, they seem to have endless supplies of everything and a functional economy, the west underestimated the impact of Asia, it is the savior of Russia.

Yes it would be paranoid, because if they did there’d be no Russia left, never mind Russian air force.

Putin isn’t going to do anything that risks his personal safety.

[YUPPIE]

NATO would not strike at Russia with this biblical retaliation you people hype up if Russia hit an airfield.