Russian invasion of Ukraine

[YUPPIE]

By Russia. Nobody else believed that shit, dude.

Most people actually did. Hence the narrative Russia would steamroll Ukraine and why Zelenksy was offered a ride out.

[Deus Mortis]

Ukraine says they sunk another Sub while it was in port.

[Iphie]

Ukraine says they sunk another Sub while it was in port.

Word is that it is the same as previously damaged, but it got repaired. Now it is a permanent fixture of the Black Sea seafloor.

[PhaelixWW]

Now that Ukraine starts to form an airforce, would it be paranoid to think that Russia will start targeting NATO airfields where Ukrainian aircrafts are located? Russia did not do that until now because Ukraine did not have an airforce, but what now that they start importing aircrafts? they have to respond that, don't they?

Yes. Yes it's paranoid.

Ukraine has always had an air force, and it's been active since day 1, despite notoriously failed early attempts by Russia to gain air dominance. The Ukrainian Air Force has proved very resilient.

Ukraine has also been targeting Russian military targets in Russia for a long time. They've destroyed quite a few aircraft on the ground in those bases, too. Russia has obviously already been attacking Ukraine airbases throughout.

No, Russia is not going to attack NATO bases, for what should be damned obvious reasons. And no, those aren't Ukrainian fighters in NATO bases. They're not Ukrainian until they're transferred to Ukrainian territory.

Russia can't even effectively take on Ukraine, and you somehow think they're going to drag NATO into the fight?

Your ignorance is staggeringly acute.

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NATO would not strike at Russia with this biblical retaliation you people hype up if Russia hit an airfield.

Depending on the attack, NATO would at the very least commit a reciprocal response, and likely more than reciprocal, though measured. Perhaps taking out several of Russia's air defenses and air bases. Whether Russia chose to respond after that is another matter.

No, NATO wouldn't go from 0 to scorched earth in 5 seconds, but you can bet your ass they would respond with force. Doing nothing would not be an option.

[Corvus]

Given how badly damaged the sub was first time around, I'm surprised they tried to fix it.

[PhaelixWW]

NATO is just all bluster. For years now, they’ve let Russia torture, rape, and murder across Ukraine with impunity. I think that is why so many people have lost faith in it being anything but talk.

Hey, you're just like Putin; you still somehow fail to understand that NATO was created to respond defensively, rather than offensively.

If NATO could wipe out Russia before they even attempt MAD like you people claim, that rubs more salt in the wound because it means they could have ended this destructive conflict a long time ago but refuse to.

Even IF NATO were an offensive organization, it's a grotesque thing to casually suggest that they should have an obligation to kill an order of magnitude more people than this war has already claimed just to "stop" it.

Not to mention that if NATO were to take over Russia militarily.... then what? Are you envisioning some kind of occupation of Russia? Please learn from history and tell us how well that would go. Would NATO destroy all military apparatus and then leave? How many additional lives would be lost in the chaos that follows? Wouldn't that just bring rise to a whole new era of international terrorism against NATO countries?

See, I know that your preferred answer is just to nuke the whole of Russia. You don't often come out and admit it so blatantly, but everyone can tell that's what you (not-so-)secretly yearn for. And it's disgusting.

To me though, the truth is not that simple. I think the reality is it’s just that NATO is nowhere near as powerful as you people claim it is and an actual conflict with Russia would be rather evenly matched. Hence why they don’t want to directly face Russia other than as a last resort.

I can't even begin to see how you can view Russia's struggles in Ukraine and claim that opinion out loud. NATO has been sending what amounts to outdated cast-offs to Ukraine (along with a much smaller sample of more modern tools) and those have been used to devastating effect.

And I think you also grossly underestimate the size disadvantage that Russia would face. NATO has like 2-3x the military personnel and 4-5x the hardware. And that was before Russia started getting their asses handed to them in Ukraine.

Russia's best chance to take out NATO would be a surprise attack, and we all know that's very, very unlikely in today's political climate.

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Hype vs reality. Remember Russia was hyped up as a military superpower on par with the US before it exposed itself on a real battlefield in Ukraine. The US also hypes itself as a military superpower but got routed by little guys like the Taliban, Viet Cong, etc across history.

Oh, wow, your lack of knowledge and understanding of history is just painful to witness.

You should never mistake muscle posturing for factual strength. Just accept NATO is being pragmatic and only not seeking conflict with Russia due to losses and risks in mind, which is totally acceptable.

You're basically saying that the only reason you can imagine not jumping towards genocide is... a fear of weakness?

Careful, your sociopathy is showing.

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Most people actually did. Hence the narrative Russia would steamroll Ukraine and why Zelenksy was offered a ride out.

Believing that Russia would overwhelm Ukraine, largely considering the disparity in the relative size of their militaries, is not the same thing as thinking that Russia's military was the equal of the US's military, let alone that of the whole of NATO.

And certainly any lingering belief in Russian military might has since evaporated into the smoke from all those oil refinery fires.

[Belize]

Given how badly damaged the sub was first time around, I'm surprised they tried to fix it.

They likely don't really have the means of replacing them with new ones at this point.

Can't imagine any of the drydocks in either the black sea or the sea of azov are super safe to have anything built in long term

[YUPPIE]

Not to mention that if NATO were to take over Russia militarily.... then what? Are you envisioning some kind of occupation of Russia? Please learn from history and tell us how well that would go.

germany and japan turned out well considering how evil they were before their defeat

and while both still have neo-nazi issues, they're doing great

[PhaelixWW]

Word is that it is the same as previously damaged, but it got repaired. Now it is a permanent fixture of the Black Sea seafloor.

BBC: Ukraine says it sank Russian submarine in Crimea

Ukraine's military says it attacked and destroyed a Russian submarine while it was anchored at a port in the occupied Crimean peninsula.

The Rostov-on-Don, a kilo-class attack submarine launched in 2014, sank after it was struck in a missile attack on the port city of Sevastopol on Friday, Ukraine's general staff said in a statement.

It was reportedly one of four submarines operated by Russia's Black Sea fleet capable of launching Kalibr cruise missiles. The Russian defence ministry has not commented.

Officials in Kyiv said the attack also destroyed four S-400 air defence systems protecting the peninsula, which Russia illegally annexed in 2014.

Intelligence officials in the UK noted last September that the Rostov-on-Don "likely suffered catastrophic damage" in a missile strike while undergoing maintenance at a Sevastopol shipyard.

Ukraine's military said Russia subsequently repaired the vessel and it was recently testing its capabilities near Sevastopol. The vessel was worth $300m (£233m), they added.

"The destruction of Rostov-on-Don once again proves that there is no safe place for the Russian fleet in the Ukrainian territorial waters of the Black Sea," the general staff in Kyiv said in a statement on Saturday.

It marks the latest attack on Russian naval forces in Sevastopol in recent months. In March alone, Ukraine said it hit two landing ships and a patrol vessel in the port city.

Since Russia launched its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 it has suffered several major naval setbacks. Ukraine says it has seriously damaged or sunk at least 15 warships, including the Black Sea fleet's flagship, the Moskva.

Last week Ukraine's military said Moscow had been forced to withdraw all of its naval assets from the Sea of Azov - a body of water connected to the Black Sea - due to repeated strikes on its vessels.

And Russia's internal security service, the FSB, recently said it foiled a Ukrainian plot to destroy its last remaining aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov. The ship, launched in 1985, has been undergoing repairs since 2018.

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They likely don't really have the means of replacing them with new ones at this point.

Can't imagine any of the drydocks in either the black sea or the sea of azov are super safe to have anything built in long term

Well, Russia has completely removed it's naval forces from the Sea of Azov, so... yeah.

But subs take years and years to build. They have some in construction elsewhere, of course.

[Belize]

Well, Russia has completely removed it's naval forces from the Sea of Azov, so... yeah.

But subs take years and years to build. They have some in construction elsewhere, of course.

Right, but "elsewhere" has to loop aallllllllll the way around, back through the Mediterranean

[PhaelixWW]

germany and japan turned out well considering how evil they were before their defeat

and while both still have neo-nazi issues, they're doing great

In case you forgot (or in case you didn't know, because your lack of knowledge of history is eminent), WW2 was 80-85 years ago.

Germany lost 10% of its population in WW2, including an entire generation of young men. And Germany did poorly for a long time before things got better. Hell, the Berlin Wall didn't even come down for another 45 years.

Similar thing in Japan, where nukes were actually used.

...

I can just hear you thinking that the best way to "help" Russia would be to nuke them, then maybe they'd be doing well in another 80 years!

Just stop.

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Right, but "elsewhere" has to loop aallllllllll the way around, back through the Mediterranean

A trip of months, sure, but much faster than the 7 years to completely build a new one, even if it were safe to do so in Sevastopol.

[diller]

would it be paranoid to think that Russia will start targeting NATO airfields where Ukrainian aircrafts are located?

Yes that would be incredibly paranoid - I can't even understand anyone would think that unless they are paranoid.

[zealo]

Right, but "elsewhere" has to loop aallllllllll the way around, back through the Mediterranean

Even that wont help them there unless they want those subs to just hang around in the Mediterranean and not actually reach the black sea.

Turkey wont let nations at war move military vessels through the bosphorus, as part of the montreux convention, a treaty dating back all the way to 1936.

[YUPPIE]

The German and Swedish air forces scrambled NATO jets on Aug. 3 after two Russian jets were detected heading toward Latvian airspace over the Baltic Sea.

The German Air Force reported that the jets from NATO's Baltic air-policing mission identified two Russian Su-30s.

The Russian pilots "behaved uncooperatively but not aggressively," the German Air Force said.

I'll admit it's disappointing when news puts in a headline/title like that only to read the article and find out it's literally nothing.

[Easo]

The German and Swedish air forces scrambled NATO jets on Aug. 3 after two Russian jets were detected heading toward Latvian airspace over the Baltic Sea.

The German Air Force reported that the jets from NATO's Baltic air-policing mission identified two Russian Su-30s.

The Russian pilots "behaved uncooperatively but not aggressively," the German Air Force said.

I'll admit it's disappointing when news puts in a headline/title like that only to read the article and find out it's literally nothing.

Literally a nothing burger for idiots, sorry, nationalists. This is standard practice all over the world, in all political regimes, but it sure does make for screaming headlines followed by degenerates screaming "JUST SHOOT THEM DOWN!!!!1111oneone"

[diller]

The German and Swedish air forces scrambled NATO jets on Aug. 3 after two Russian jets were detected heading toward Latvian airspace over the Baltic Sea.

The German Air Force reported that the jets from NATO's Baltic air-policing mission identified two Russian Su-30s.

The Russian pilots "behaved uncooperatively but not aggressively," the German Air Force said.

I'll admit it's disappointing when news puts in a headline/title like that only to read the article and find out it's literally nothing.

Even before the war these things happened a lot I mostly know about Denmark and Sweden and it was several times a year where Russian planes needed to be escorted out of our national airspace.

[Edge-]

Even before the war these things happened a lot I mostly know about Denmark and Sweden and it was several times a year where Russian planes needed to be escorted out of our national airspace.

At some point Russia is gonna Find Out, because they have been Fucking Around with this shit for years.

[Gorsameth]

At some point Russia is gonna Find Out, because they have been Fucking Around with this shit for years.

They fucked around with Turkey during the Syrian civil war and found out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_R...u-24_shootdown

[YUPPIE]

At some point Russia is gonna Find Out, because they have been Fucking Around with this shit for years.

they won't because they do this petty shit knowing no one will mess with them over it. Emphasis on "petty"

[Endus]

they won't because they do this petty shit knowing no one will mess with them over it. Emphasis on "petty"

They won't do so intentionally, because they know full well they can't handle the blowback.

But if you keep toeing up to the line, it's a matter of time until you nudge over it and trigger a full response.