Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Edge-]

To my understanding, yes and no, at some point it was majority Ukrainians, and then russofication happened, as it does in the russian empire. Very few ethnic Ukrainians remain. Like in Karelia and the Baltics. It's an effective way of soft genocide.

My post is mostly shitposting at Russia's, "We're not invading another country, just retaking land that was always ours." bullshit.

[PhaelixWW]

I can't imagine Ukraine has any plans on digging in; I'd assume they have some more finite objective to reach before GTFO'ing.

So, uh, yeah, I think I might just have been wrong here.

Ukraine doesn't look like they're going to relinquish their occupied territory in Russia easily. They've established a military office, blown up bridges... it certainly looks like they're digging in for a while.

Though I suppose it's possible they hadn't intended to stick around this long, but with the utter failure of Russia to effectively combat the incursion, they've changed their mind. I wonder if we'll ever find out.

[YUPPIE]

im not gonna post the video, but there's an article exploding on news outlets showing a Russian soldier holding a decapitated Ukranian soldier's head like a barbarian in an attempt to look intimidating.

like, Ukraine is appealing to the UN and Red Cross, but shouldn't this warrant more sanctions by default?

[PhaelixWW]

im not gonna post the video, but there's an article exploding on news outlets showing a Russian soldier holding a decapitated Ukranian soldier's head like a barbarian in an attempt to look intimidating.

like, Ukraine is appealing to the UN and Red Cross, but shouldn't this warrant more sanctions by default?

It's a war crime, yes, and it gets added to the... <checks notes> ...120k+ war crimes that Russia's already been accused of since the invasion began. It's not like those other... <checks notes again> ...120k+ war crimes weren't already the basis for sanctions against Russia.

[Kaleredar]

So, uh, yeah, I think I might just have been wrong here.

Ukraine doesn't look like they're going to relinquish their occupied territory in Russia easily. They've established a military office, blown up bridges... it certainly looks like they're digging in for a while.

Though I suppose it's possible they hadn't intended to stick around this long, but with the utter failure of Russia to effectively combat the incursion, they've changed their mind. I wonder if we'll ever find out.

Every soldier, piece of artillery and equipment and the time it takes to deploy them thrown at retaking land in Russia is a relief valve on the Ukrainian front.

The only “escalation” is a previously unimagined escalation of how much of an embarrassment this has been for Putin.

Damn are those Ukrainian soldiers some bold and brave motherfuckers.

[YUPPIE]

accused of

there's no accusation going on here. It is straight up what I described it as on film. Accusation implies insinuating something but with no concrete proof.

when stuff like this is recorded, it needs to warrant immediate sanctions to demonstrate we're not barbarians in this day and age.

[PhaelixWW]

there's no accusation going on here. It is straight up what I described it as on film. Accusation implies insinuating something but with no concrete proof.

when stuff like this is recorded, it needs to warrant immediate sanctions to demonstrate we're not barbarians in this day and age.

It's an accusation until a trial reaches a verdict.

Trials are important to demonstrate we're not barbarians in this day and age.


The point, though, is that we're already sanctioning them based on their refusal to submit to the ICC for said war crimes. Or did you forget that the ICC has long since issued an arrest warrant for your boy Putin?

[Zaydin]

It's an accusation until a trial reaches a verdict.

Trials are important to demonstrate we're not barbarians in this day and age.


The point, though, is that we're already sanctioning them based on their refusal to submit to the ICC for said war crimes. Or did you forget that the ICC has long since issued an arrest warrant for your boy Putin?

Didn't Yuppie hand wring when that happened about how Russia would react violently if anyone arrested Putin?

[YUPPIE]

Didn't Yuppie hand wring when that happened about how Russia would react violently if anyone arrested Putin?

well putin will never be arrested, nor are we seeing anything like russians trying to turn him in right now.

If he was caught out by the ICC, then I am sure the Russians would go into a frenzy. But that's a hypothetical.

[Gabriel]

well putin will never be arrested, nor are we seeing anything like russians trying to turn him in right now.

If he was caught out by the ICC, then I am sure the Russians would go into a frenzy. But that's a hypothetical.

Why on Earth would they go into a frenzy?

If Putin was caught by the ICC, literally every single Russian would immediately flip on him and call him a little bitch for getting caught.

[Flarelaine]

So, uh, yeah, I think I might just have been wrong here.

Ukraine doesn't look like they're going to relinquish their occupied territory in Russia easily. They've established a military office, blown up bridges... it certainly looks like they're digging in for a while.

Though I suppose it's possible they hadn't intended to stick around this long, but with the utter failure of Russia to effectively combat the incursion, they've changed their mind. I wonder if we'll ever find out.

Ukraine is culturally in the West now*, so I believe it's a reasonable expectation that generals involved will

1) survive the war
2) want to tell the story
3) be allowed to. In a generation, at worst.


*Mostly anyway, but will do for the purposes of the argument.

[draynay]

So, uh, yeah, I think I might just have been wrong here.

Ukraine doesn't look like they're going to relinquish their occupied territory in Russia easily. They've established a military office, blown up bridges... it certainly looks like they're digging in for a while.

Though I suppose it's possible they hadn't intended to stick around this long, but with the utter failure of Russia to effectively combat the incursion, they've changed their mind. I wonder if we'll ever find out.

I thought it had all the characteristics of a raid, taking the fight away from their territory, put the enemy on the back foot and make them reallocate forces, take the path of least resistance with no set objectives, and shock the civilian population causing unrest. Digging in does seem like the latest opportunistic move. I assume they'll have plans for a speedy withdrawal if Russia ever gets their act together and even then they'd be too disorganized and weary to pursue and the Ukrainian forces would likely have no trouble slipping away.

[Flarelaine]

I thought it had all the characteristics of a raid, taking the fight away from their territory, put the enemy on the back foot and make them reallocate forces, take the path of least resistance with no set objectives, and shock the civilian population causing unrest. Digging in does seem like the latest opportunistic move. I assume they'll have plans for a speedy withdrawal if Russia ever gets their act together and even then they'd be too disorganized and weary to pursue and the Ukrainian forces would likely have no trouble slipping away.

Also the Russian war machine is not unlike a glacier. If there is a push coming that is not worth standing up to, the AFU will very much see it coming. At the very least, friendly eyes in the sky will.

[Specialka]

So, uh, yeah, I think I might just have been wrong here.

Ukraine doesn't look like they're going to relinquish their occupied territory in Russia easily. They've established a military office, blown up bridges... it certainly looks like they're digging in for a while.

Though I suppose it's possible they hadn't intended to stick around this long, but with the utter failure of Russia to effectively combat the incursion, they've changed their mind. I wonder if we'll ever find out.

As any person with a working brain would have tought, was clear they are there to have a bargaining chip with Russia: "you give back our land, we give yours back".

- - - Updated - - -

Ukraine is culturally in the West now*, so I believe it's a reasonable expectation that generals involved will

1) survive the war
2) want to tell the story
3) be allowed to. In a generation, at worst.


*Mostly anyway, but will do for the purposes of the argument.

They clearly are not. They want to and they have a lot of work to do before getting there.

[Flarelaine]

They clearly are not. They want to and they have a lot of work to do before getting there.

Like I said: for the purposes of present argument. Ukrainians very much want to show they are not Russia so even disgraced generals will not fall out of windows. Zaluzhniy received a cushy job as ambassador to Britain.

[Specialka]

Like I said: for the purposes of present argument. Ukrainians very much want to show they are not Russia so even disgraced generals will not fall out of windows. Zaluzhniy received a cushy job as ambassador to Britain.

Wow, just showing the basic common decency. What is next ? Socially, culturally, they are still far from being "in the West".

[Saradain]

Wow, just showing the basic common decency. What is next ? Socially, culturally, they are still far from being "in the West".

Russians being S-tier trash in everything humane, Ukraine sure as hell is far more akin to western nations than russian ones. Corruption? Yeah, that happens when you are occupied by russians for decades. That can be worked on given how willing Ukraine is to work towards integration to western society.

I don't know why, but your post seems to imply that corruption and other negative values are directly attached to ukrainian culture or social values. Last I checked, civilization allows one to keep their cultural and social aspects and still be part of something greater and different.

Russian influence can and will be purged from Ukraine so they can finally cast off the stain Russia enforces on all of its current and ex-vassals.

[Gabriel]

As any person with a working brain would have tought, was clear they are there to have a bargaining chip with Russia: "you give back our land, we give yours back".

I'm not buying it. Any agreement done with Russia is worth less than the paper it was printed on.

My bet is that Ukraine is forcing Russia to relocate their forces from the south to save face, because of the shame of losing actual Russian clay in special military operation, so that Ukraine can make a breakthrough in the south and reclaim the occupied areas by force.

[Specialka]

I'm not buying it. Any agreement done with Russia is worth less than the paper it was printed on.

My bet is that Ukraine is forcing Russia to relocate their forces from the south to save face, because of the shame of losing actual Russian clay in special military operation, so that Ukraine can make a breakthrough in the south and reclaim the occupied areas by force.

It is probably one of the objective of this operation. But as the Ukrainian officials have said themselves, this operation is mainly to force Russia on the negotation table on equal ground with them.

[alach]

I thought this was their way of getting close enough to the russian airbases to blast them and take out all the artillery that russia has been lobbing at them from across the border.