Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Specialka]

Russians being S-tier trash in everything humane, Ukraine sure as hell is far more akin to western nations than russian ones. Corruption? Yeah, that happens when you are occupied by russians for decades. That can be worked on given how willing Ukraine is to work towards integration to western society.

I don't know why, but your post seems to imply that corruption and other negative values are directly attached to ukrainian culture or social values. Last I checked, civilization allows one to keep their cultural and social aspects and still be part of something greater and different.

Russian influence can and will be purged from Ukraine so they can finally cast off the stain Russia enforces on all of its current and ex-vassals.

It is far more complex than that, but it is not only the "russian influence" that allowed the corruption to fester in Ukraine. It did help though. Obviously, they can fight the corruption back but it needs the political will to do so. Fortunately, they seems determine for now to do so.

[Iphie]

I thought this was their way of getting close enough to the russian airbases to blast them and take out all the artillery that russia has been lobbing at them from across the border.

Nothing stops an operation having multiple objectives and stretchgoals as well as targets of pportunity.

[Gorsameth]

When fighting has ground to a halt as both sides are fully entrenched in front of each other the correct response is so open another front which isn't fully fortified and mined.
Everything else that has happened since is a bonus.

[Mazza]

I still think that when it comes to military goals Ukraine hitting some important Russian airfields during this incursion will end up a lot more important in the long run as Russia still has no easy way to replenish their airforce. Some of the most succesful attacks Russia carried out have involved heavy use of gliding bombs launched from planes. Hitting that ability hard seems like a big win for Ukraine to me.

[Popastique]

Corruption? Yeah, that happens when you are occupied by russians for decades.

Seriously? If you honestly think that is the reason then you are delusional

[D Luniz]

So, uh, yeah, I think I might just have been wrong here.

Ukraine doesn't look like they're going to relinquish their occupied territory in Russia easily. They've established a military office, blown up bridges... it certainly looks like they're digging in for a while.

Though I suppose it's possible they hadn't intended to stick around this long, but with the utter failure of Russia to effectively combat the incursion, they've changed their mind. I wonder if we'll ever find out.

my honest opinion
They went in expecting it to be a short raid, a list of things that if they could get near they could wreck before being chased out....
but no one chased them out, and if they can hold it, it opens up alot of OTHER stuff they can wreck that makes fighting on the main front easier.
So they're more in the "hell, it shouldnt have worked but it did, so let the man cook" phase of this

[Saradain]

Seriously? If you honestly think that is the reason then you are delusional

You sure have been mocking Ukraine with your short-liners every now and then. If you're an ukrainian rooting for russians, I'm not exactly interested

[Popastique]

You sure have been mocking Ukraine with your short-liners every now and then. If you're an ukrainian rooting for russians, I'm not exactly interested

Mocking Ukraine? Do quote my words where i do that, or you are just full of crap.
Corruption has been a problem here for decades and if you just look into people who've been in power throughout the years - oh boy, you will find some interesting numbers. And that affects every sphere of life there is. From paying a visit to state run hospitals or trying to get your kid into school, etc. And yeah, they've been figthing corruption pretty hard - so hard that they've been arresting people from departments created to demolish it.

[Saradain]

Mocking Ukraine? Do quote my words where i do that, or you are just full of crap.
Corruption has been a problem here for decades and if you just look into people who've been in power throughout the years - oh boy, you will find some interesting numbers. And that goes down to every sphere of life there is. From paying a visit to state run hospitals or trying to get your kind into school, etc. And yeah, they've been figthing corruption pretty hard - so hard that they've been arresting people from departments created to demolish it.

Well good thing your goverment has stated otherwise recent years. For your own sake you better hope it gets done. Unless you enjoy being associated with nazi scum like russians.

[Popastique]

Well good thing your goverment has stated otherwise recent years. For your own sake you better hope it gets done

What they stated doesn't mean shit if it still persists and people in power do the bare minimum to save their face - there have been numerous scandals over the price of different supplies that were supposed to go to the army and their personnel just in the past few years. One can hope for better but looking at state of things as it is - it will either remain the same or get a tiny bit better which i doubt. And oh boy it could get worse as well.

[YUPPIE]

ukraine likely won't improve even if russia loses. remember ukraine champions itself as a democratic government, meaning zelenskyy is only still in his position because of war time concerns. he will have to leave office eventually and who knows what corrupt fuckhead will be elected in like we see with Trump or Maduro. What you humans don't read too much or find out about here presumably is while Zelenksyy's attempts to tackle corruption are admirable, he's having difficulty curbing all of it, and the people he jails for corruption sow the seeds for further dissent because they get pissed off.

And what remains of Russia will forever have it out for Ukraine and try to instill its puppets to screw with it, as Russians are heavily (but not entirely) responsible for corruption in Ukraine.

on top of the rebuilding and all the war crimes to be investigated, Ukraine won't be a normal country for like 100+ years.

Whole situation is just fucked.

[Saradain]

ukraine likely won't improve even if russia loses. remember ukraine champions itself as a democratic government, meaning zelenskyy is only still in his position because of war time concerns. he will have to leave office eventually and who knows what corrupt fuckhead will be elected in like we see with Trump or Maduro. What you humans don't read too much or find out about here presumably is while Zelenksyy's attempts to tackle corruption are admirable, he's having difficulty curbing all of it, and the people he jails for corruption sow the seeds for further dissent because they get pissed off.

And what remains of Russia will forever have it out for Ukraine and try to instill its puppets to screw with it, as Russians are heavily (but not entirely) responsible for corruption in Ukraine.

on top of the rebuilding and all the war crimes to be investigated, Ukraine won't be a normal country for like 100+ years.

Whole situation is just fucked.

Last time a corrupt fuckhead was going against people's wishes and their own promises. Euromaidan.

But yah lets stick with YUPPIE headcanon.

[alach]

Ukraine will clean itself up faster than several other western countries, like Bulgaria , Romania, maybe Hungary I dunno much about that one But all eyes are on Ukraine, they are cleaning up much faster than a few other places. They will succeed in joining the western communities.

[YUPPIE]

like Bulgaria, maybe Hungary.

Bulgaria just signed this and Hungary has Orban so no

[alach]

Bulgaria just signed this and Hungary has Orban so no

That's my point. These countries are regressing, against EU laws. Ukraine is progressing. The western world needs Ukraine to succeed.

[ringpriest]

I'm not buying it. Any agreement done with Russia is worth less than the paper it was printed on.

My bet is that Ukraine is forcing Russia to relocate their forces from the south to save face, because of the shame of losing actual Russian clay in special military operation, so that Ukraine can make a breakthrough in the south and reclaim the occupied areas by force.

The Ukrainian invasion of Russia has already put the rail link supporting northern Russian operations in Ukraine within the range of HIMARS. A little further in Russia and it will be in conventional artillery range. Cut that, and they cut Russia's logistics pipeline into Ukraine in half.

I'm confident that's not the only motivation, but it's one aspect of it.

[Corvus]

One thing being overlooked is that the mud season will be returning soon. It is expected that russia's donbas offensive would culminate soon, as no army can keep attacking forever, especially into the mud.

This leaves russia in a dilemma. What happens if Ukraine are really dug in when mud season rolls around? They can't ignore a large chunk of russia being occupied and supply lines being interrupted, but to attack during mud season will see very heavy losses.

One theory I saw offered was that the kursk offensive in part was designed to keep russia on the offensive when they wanted to actually pause, rebuild and regroup.

[PhaelixWW]

my honest opinion
They went in expecting it to be a short raid, a list of things that if they could get near they could wreck before being chased out....
but no one chased them out, and if they can hold it, it opens up alot of OTHER stuff they can wreck that makes fighting on the main front easier.
So they're more in the "hell, it shouldnt have worked but it did, so let the man cook" phase of this

I'm kinda leaning towards this explanation, myself.

And what remains of Russia will forever have it out for Ukraine and try to instill its puppets to screw with it, as Russians are heavily (but not entirely) responsible for corruption in Ukraine.

I think there are a whole lot of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine and the border areas of Russia who are just pissed off at Putin. I'm not sure those people are as pro-Russia as you imagine. There's also the fact that Ukraine is treating the people in Russia an order of magnitude better than Russia treated the people of Ukraine, (including those Russian-speaking Ukrainians).

The enmity may not last much longer than Putin does.

on top of the rebuilding and all the war crimes to be investigated, Ukraine won't be a normal country for like 100+ years.

Whole situation is just fucked.

It won't take anywhere near 100+ years. If Ukraine survives and establishes the expected ties to the West, I think you'll see a massive turnaround within 10-20 years. There will be a lot of interest in shoring up the good will and rebuilding, once the fighting stops. The incentives are much too strong for anything otherwise.

The only thing that would slow it down would be rampant corruption, and with Western aid on the line, I'm willing to bet it's only going to be a fraction of what it was under the Soviet and post-Soviet eras. I don't think Ukraine wants to go back to that system, simply based on its ties to Russia.

[YUPPIE]

It won't take anywhere near 100+ years.

you forget that the fighting aside, Ukraine is largely uninhabitable due to mines and other horrific traps being indiscriminately placed everywhere. We don't even know where all that shit is as it is now.

Getting rid of that stuff takes longer than you think, and no tourist revenue because no one wants to meet their grisly end to random explosion.

[Easo]

you forget that the fighting aside, Ukraine is largely uninhabitable due to mines and other horrific traps being indiscriminately placed everywhere. We don't even know where all that shit is as it is now.

Getting rid of that stuff takes longer than you think, and no tourist revenue because no one wants to meet their grisly end to random explosion.

Fascinating. Each time you go further and further in these who-knows-with-what-influenced claims. What's next, Yuppie?