Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Shadowferal]

Rookies....

[Makabreska]

Russia is bringing in big numbers - bordering on a legion - to combat Ukraine's forces. Russia withdrew several brigades totaling up to 5,000 soldiers from Ukraine to repel the Ukrainian offensive in the Kursk region. Due to a personnel shortage, the Russian command has also reassigned Aerospace Forces members to serve as infantry in defending Kursk Oblast.

Big numbers. Legion. 5000 soldiers.

Are you really using Roman Empire military units? The way you perceive the world does not cease to amaze.

[Belize]

Cannibalizing units of engineers and mechanics who have no aircraft left to work on, sounds like the war is going well.

I guess they don't think they'll be replacing any of that equipment anytime soon too, it'll take years to retrain an engineering crew

[Elder Millennial]

And Ukraine needs more the West than the West needs Ukraine. So again, why should we care ? We already have our own issues to deal with..

Let me explain this for you. Not that matters to you anyway as you are both fundamentally ignorant and immoral to grasp this.

"The West" is not a geographical term. It refers to a specific value system countries subscribe to. They don't just subscribe to it, but aspire to.

Goofy stupid values like "human rights" and "rule of law" and "the consent of the governed".

These things are important and fragile. And more importantly, objectively fucking better than the alternatives offered by the likes of China and fucking Russia.

So when these things are challenged by the likes of Russia, they are worthwhile defending. Russia is challenging this today on the periphery in Ukraine, but if it succeeds, if it can get away with, soon it will be challenging it Estonia or Lithuanian, then in Poland and China in Taiwan and Japan etc.

And if they succeed there, we might just lose everywhere, not just to external challenges but also to internal ones made by the likes of Orban, Trump, Farage, Fico etc.

[YUPPIE]

I have said before China wants Russia to win to gain confidence in invading Taiwan, but people always dismissed that was crazy talk.

[Jessicka]

I have said before China wants Russia to win to gain confidence in invading Taiwan, but people always dismissed that was crazy talk.

Because it is. China is selling equipment to both sides. China only cares about China.

[Gorsameth]

I have said before China wants Russia to win to gain confidence in invading Taiwan, but people always dismissed that was crazy talk.

Because it is...

Russia winning now does nothing to help China, it won't gain confidence because all Russia can do at this point in win a pyric victory, their reputation is ruined, their army is ravaged, a whole generation of men is dying or has fled. Russia has lost, even if they win. Year 3 of the 3 day operation shows invading Taiwan is a fools errant.

What China does benefit from is Russia losing further. The weaker Russia gets the easier it is for China to make them their bitch.

[Nymrohd]

Let me explain this for you. Not that matters to you anyway as you are both fundamentally ignorant and immoral to grasp this.

"The West" is not a geographical term. It refers to a specific value system countries subscribe to. They don't just subscribe to it, but aspire to.

Goofy stupid values like "human rights" and "rule of law" and "the consent of the governed".

These things are important and fragile. And more importantly, objectively fucking better than the alternatives offered by the likes of China and fucking Russia.

So when these things are challenged by the likes of Russia, they are worthwhile defending. Russia is challenging this today on the periphery in Ukraine, but if it succeeds, if it can get away with, soon it will be challenging it Estonia or Lithuanian, then in Poland and China in Taiwan and Japan etc.

And if they succeed there, we might just lose everywhere, not just to external challenges but also to internal ones made by the likes of Orban, Trump, Farage, Fico etc.

They are also not just moral values. The Neo-liberal system is not just economy, it is also an international relations system. It is about optimizing global welfare by utilizing as many of the human resources around the globe into the global market as possible while also creating a level of interconnection that the neo-realist concept of zero-sum politics is disproven; the world economy becomes greater than its parts. But it all falls apart as soon as actors in the system start playing the zero-sum game like Russia does and the best thing you can do for the system is to then isolate them from it.

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Because it is. China is selling equipment to both sides. China only cares about China.

I'd say China's main interest in the war itself is collecting data about how Western equipment can fare in different scenarios.

[Jessicka]

I'd say China's main interest in the war itself is collecting data about how Western equipment can fare in different scenarios.

That’s a sandbox everyone is looking at, there’s a lot of new tech being thrown around and it’s taken a while for everyone to figure what works and how best to use it.

China’s primary interests are influence and trade. Being the senior partner in Russia’s relationship, and taking over its weapons trade will be much more important to them than getting into an expensive and wasteful military conflict.

[DarkTZeratul]

Oh, I doubt that's Xi's only interest in this war, but Yuppie is so far off target as to be not even wrong.

Things Xi's government is likely watching with keen interest:

-just how modern warfare between near-peer combatants works out in practice
-how much damage Putin is doing to Russia's future
-Sibera
-just how desperate post-war Russia is going to be
-how much Russia's other neighbors, particularly those in Central Asia, want to avoid ending up like Ukraine (or worse)

You do make a good point. Also, they may be seeing if Putin shits the bed so much that making a move on Outer Manchuria becomes feasible.

[diller]

Yuppers attempts to paint this conflict as a WW3 with these sensational informations about 3rd party involvements are really something.

What do you mean?

CLEARLY RUSSIA IS ESCALATING THE SITUATION

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I have said before China wants Russia to win to gain confidence in invading Taiwan, but people always dismissed that was crazy talk.

Because it is, while China probably wants to get Taiwan 'back' it's not going to happen because the international backlash would be too big of a problem for China to deal with, China is so dependent on their exports that they simply wouldn't dare to do it.

[Sunseeker]

Because it is, while China probably wants to get Taiwan 'back' it's not going to happen because the international backlash would be too big of a problem for China to deal with, China is so dependent on their exports that they simply wouldn't dare to do it.

Sure, China can watch from the sidelines and see if the world will tolerate an open invasion. I think they have their answer. It's "Well, we won't actively go to war with you over it, but we've got lots of money and guns and ammo to spare, so....feel free to roll those dice." The best they've got is a gamble that the nations supplying the Ukraine can't also supply Taiwan, or any other neighbor to China. Which frankly, isn't a good gamble. And China is a pretty good gambler, so they're happy to amuse themselves with Russia's misguided efforts knowing as long as they don't do the dumb, the world will largely ignore their half-assed assistance to Russia.

Frankly I think the world at large, save maybe Iran(who honestly doesn't seem all that interested either) and N Korea, are just taking the piss out of the situation. China supplies Russia with some moderate arms, India buys their shit for ultra cheap, the West supplies Ukraine with all our spare toys, and we collectively are all taking bets on when the old horse kicks the can.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

On the chance it was not already discussed, or just to remind those that already knew, A Ukrainian Mobile App has utilized Mark Hamill's voice in their air raid warning.



I am not presenting this as if it were a new thing... the video linked above is from over a year ago. It only became relevant to me personally today because the GM for my pathfinder game recently moved to Kyiv and during our game today...the air raid warning went off and he played a little of it for us. It was only when the "all clear" message was being played that I heard the app say "May the Force be with you" that I recognized the voice and remembered that Mark Hamill is a fundraising Ambassador for Ukraine's defense against Russia.

[YUPPIE]

i would not use "take the piss out of" like this situation/war is watching some ineffectual asshole throw his weight around when millions of lives have been lost in this conflict so far.

Russia is very much a threat to innocent lives, and probably the world itself.

[Sunseeker]

i would not use "take the piss out of" like this situation/war is watching some ineffectual asshole throw his weight around when millions of lives have been lost in this conflict so far.

Russia is very much a threat to innocent lives, and probably the world itself.

Only in it's imagination.

And "taking the piss" is not a compliment. The fact that we aren't getting up off our collective fat Western asses and kicking Russia in the dick until they pee blood is a long standing source of irritation for me. Don't get me wrong, I get why we're not. But I don't like it.

The world, writ-large, doesn't care about Ukraine in particular. It cares about blunting Russia's ambitions for their own defense. Or, in the case of Russia's "friends", they care about seeing how the world reacts to naked conquest. The clear answer is: it won't be tolerated, but it also won't be taken super seriously. Which is a reasonable response, just not a great one.

[Calfredd]

Russia is very much a threat to innocent lives, and probably the world itself.

And yet is still in it's 3rd year of it's 3-day special operation of which Russia is still losing.

[Dontrike]

Russia is very much a threat to innocent lives, and probably the world itself.

Do you get some sexual thrill out of this? There's no reason to continue to do this shit so constantly as you do other than getting some weird thrill out of it.

[Corvus]

The third and last bridge over the Seym is down according to russian sources. The only way in or out is by a single pontoon bridge which is in range or Ukrainian bombs, missiles, drones and artillery.

[Specialka]

Let me explain this for you. Not that matters to you anyway as you are both fundamentally ignorant and immoral to grasp this.

"The West" is not a geographical term. It refers to a specific value system countries subscribe to. They don't just subscribe to it, but aspire to.

Goofy stupid values like "human rights" and "rule of law" and "the consent of the governed".

These things are important and fragile. And more importantly, objectively fucking better than the alternatives offered by the likes of China and fucking Russia.

So when these things are challenged by the likes of Russia, they are worthwhile defending. Russia is challenging this today on the periphery in Ukraine, but if it succeeds, if it can get away with, soon it will be challenging it Estonia or Lithuanian, then in Poland and China in Taiwan and Japan etc.

And if they succeed there, we might just lose everywhere, not just to external challenges but also to internal ones made by the likes of Orban, Trump, Farage, Fico etc.

Oh, so now, there is better civilizations or values systems than other ? Time to spread democracy, guys !

[PhaelixWW]

Oh, so now, there is better civilizations or values systems than other ? Time to spread democracy, guys !

Defending democracy from external attack is not the same thing as proselytizing. Just like NATO is not an offensive alliance.

Confusing those things is just blatant paranoia.