Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Endus]

remember a few pages ago, some of you lambasted me for saying workers like Russian firefighters and medics should not be treated as war assets and intentionally targeted by Ukrainians? It seems like Russia does not think that way.

Remember when basically everyone else pointed out that said workers in active war zones, like firefighters building bridges for the military to cross, become valid targets while they're working on such thing, because the bridge itself is a valid target? And that medical staff and institutions have much stricter protections under international law?

You never had a point on this. You were ignoring the basic standards that apply.

[DarkTZeratul]

remember a few pages ago, some of you lambasted me for saying workers like Russian firefighters and medics should not be treated as war assets and intentionally targeted by Ukrainians? It seems like Russia does not think that way.

Insisting that Russia's blatant disregard for the rules of warfare makes you right is a weird fucking hill to die on, dude. You are not making the point you think you're making.

[Surfd]

I'm more shocked people in this thread doubt Russia's status as one of the US' foremost greatest enemies.

You ever read classic Batman Comics?

This is like being shocked that nobody actually thinks that the Condiment King is one of Batman's greatest foes.

[PhaelixWW]

A serious amount of Soviet tech was developed in Ukraine. Soviet rockets were developed by Ukraine, for example. I am not at all surprised they managed to repeat the achievement rather quickly once they set their minds to it. Probably with minimal outside help, too.

I was under the impression that it was Ukrainian companies that were in charge of maintaining Russia's ballistic missiles, since after the USSR fell, all the people with the know how ended up in Ukraine. So they probably had pretty good industrial base for kicking up a ballistic missile production line.

Except for the fact that the project had stalled. Despite being in a shooting war in the Donbas for years prior to the invasion, the delays kept piling up until they announced the project was finally funded again last year. So nearly 20 years of failures and setbacks and then once they finally get their hands on some advanced systems, they finish in a year?

It's possible the two aren't connected, but I'm officially skeptical that they're not.

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I'm more shocked people in this thread doubt Russia's status as one of the US' foremost greatest enemies.

Russia ain't the USSR and this ain't the Cold War.

And even then, "foremost opponent" is not the same as "mortal enemy", which is the shit you were trying to peddle before.

[Gabriel]

remember a few pages ago, some of you lambasted me for saying workers like Russian firefighters and medics should not be treated as war assets and intentionally targeted by Ukrainians? It seems like Russia does not think that way.

An ambulance on its way to help a wounded man has come under Russian attack in Kherson. Three medics were injured.

An ambulance team rushing to help an injured man in the Dniprovskyi district of the city has come under enemy fire.

Three medical workers were injured. They suffered blast injuries and contusions. The vehicle was damaged."

The man, 63, who was outside during the Russian drone attack, suffered a blast injury and shrapnel wounds on the evening of 27 August in Kherson’s Dniprovskyi district.

Why do you think that Russia committing warcrimes is a reason for Ukraine to do the same?

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

What has the current Russian federation given the world? Aside from cybercrime, money laundering and misery?

At the very least part of the ISS, and continued access to it for several years after the Shuttles were retired after blowing up one too many times and before Elon Musk delivered a functional crewed capsule.

AFAIK, until very recently they were involved in major international research projects, and are still a major producer of talented scientists and engineers that get brain-drained by the West, the latter which gets gloated a lot around here.

Objectively its energy and resources cooperation with Europe and Germany in particular litteraly fueled a substantial part of their now fading prosperity.

[Corvus]

9 days on and the proletarsk oil depot is still burning. 15 years to build and a week for it to be destroyed.

https://x.com/wartranslated/status/1828341950279278931

And for good measure, Ukraine has set a second depot on fire in Rostov - this one a brand new one that supplies finished petroleum products to the russian armed forces.

[alach]

Maybe thats all a part of ...

Ukraine to present 'victory plan' to US - Zelensky
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has said his troops' incursion into Russia's Kursk region is part of a "victory plan" that he will present to US President Joe Biden next month.
Speaking at a forum on Tuesday, President Zelensky said the success of the plan would depend on President Biden and on whether the US would give Ukraine "what is in this plan or not, [and] whether we will be free to use this plan, or not".

[diller]

It's pretty weird how much you want the Russians to win, dude.

I'm pretty sure he is "ethnically" Russian living in the Baltics.

[Doomcookie]

I'm pretty sure he is "ethnically" Russian living in the Baltics.

Latvian, apparently. But, it gets very foggy there. This is something that has baffled me for many years, why people who likely grew up under the oppressive rule of the Soviets, and suffered immense pain and hardship, so desperately want to have the Soviet Union back.

[Odinfrost]

Latvian, apparently. But, it gets very foggy there. This is something that has baffled me for many years, why people who likely grew up under the oppressive rule of the Soviets, and suffered immense pain and hardship, so desperately want to have the Soviet Union back.

Stockholm syndrome

[Doomcookie]

Stockholm syndrome

I've met Russians, and their nostalgia for the old Soviet Union makes some sense. They miss being important. They miss being "respected" around the world. But, this latest little upstart over the past 10-15 years, is more about them just trying to show that they can still compete with the West. The problem is, the West just doesn't care.

Meanwhile, we have countries filled with people whose family members have died and suffered as a result of the Soviet rule, and they insist on lying to themselves and others about it.

[draynay]

remember a few pages ago, some of you lambasted me for saying workers like Russian firefighters and medics should not be treated as war assets and intentionally targeted by Ukrainians? It seems like Russia does not think that way.

Congratulations on having the same standards as fucking Russia when it comes to depravity, something to really rub in our faces.

[Elder Millennial]

Objectively its energy and resources cooperation with Europe and Germany in particular litteraly fueled a substantial part of their now fading prosperity.

Western Europe's prosperity is rooted in an era when it didn't whatsoever traded with Russia meaningfully because of the Iron Curtain. And eastern Europe's developmental delay is rooted in era when it was stuck trading almost exclusively with Russia.

I'm not going to understate Russian contributions to things, but nor am I going to pretend the world can't do without it just fine.

Also "fading prosperity"...Fading compared to what? Russia? Allow me to laugh. China? Allow me to laugh harder.

Europe will be fine. The west will be fine. Russia and China on the other hand....

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Latvian, apparently. But, it gets very foggy there. This is something that has baffled me for many years, why people who likely grew up under the oppressive rule of the Soviets, and suffered immense pain and hardship, so desperately want to have the Soviet Union back.

Whatever country @Easo is from, if his country was ever attack by Russia, he'd be that guy who writes lists of which of his friends, neighbors and coworkers should the glorious Sovie...err...Russian "liberation" force should herd into torture and rape camps so they can quickly "pacify" the country.

And if he is from Russia, he is that guy who snitches on people for not being "patriotic" enough about the glorious and extremely successful Special Military Operation.


Infracted.

[Doomcookie]

Western Europe's prosperity is rooted in an era when it didn't whatsoever traded with Russia meaningfully because of the Iron Curtain. And eastern Europe's developmental delay is rooted in era when it was stuck trading almost exclusively with Russia.

I'm not going to understand Russian contributions to things, but nor am I going to pretend the world can't do without it just fine.

Also "fading prosperity"...Fading compared to what? Russia? Allow me to laugh. China? Allow me to laugh harder.

Europe will be fine. The west will be fine. Russia and China on the other hand....

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Whatever country @Easo is from, if his country was ever attack by Russia, he'd be that guy who writes lists of which of his friends, neighbors and coworkers should the glorious Sovie...err...Russian "liberation" force should herd into torture and rape camps so they can quickly "pacify" the country.

And if he is from Russia, he is that guy who snitches on people for not being "patriotic" enough about the glorious and extremely successful Special Military Operation.

The bad part is... it happened in Latvia. The Soviet Union was every bit as harsh as Nazi Germany was, they just directed their anger and violence based on allegiance, and not ethnicity. People like Yuppie and Easo want that, again. They want Putin to do what he always wished, and rebuild the Soviet Union. The first steps would be the industrial and agricultural nations. They will leverage the loyalists in those nations to foment unrest, and turn on their neighbors. Putin has convinced them that their actions are just and patriotic.

The Russian Government is evil, and they should be stopped.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Western Europe's prosperity is rooted in an era when it didn't whatsoever traded with Russia meaningfully because of the Iron Curtain. And eastern Europe's developmental delay is rooted in era when it was stuck trading almost exclusively with Russia.

I'm not going to understand Russian contributions to things, but nor am I going to pretend the world can't do without it just fine.

It depends, the post war economic boom of many western european countries was fueled by rapid industrialization, allowed by rapid urbanization drawing on a still youthful population, rural flight, returnees from the colonies and increasing cohorts of formerly colonized subjects, and as crucially by cheap abundant oil energy.

The latter was crucial enough that its end is in many countries referenced as a pivotal moment, with the 1973 oil crisis marking the end of an era (interestingly enough, in part caused by the Arab countries leveraging their power against supporters of Israel in the Yom Kippur War and its continued occupation of neighboring territories).

This caused many countries to reevaluate their energy policies. Crucially, West Germany, Europe's engine, opted for partership with the Soviets and later Russians, which in due time contributed to its industrial prowess during the early 2000s boom, and allowed it to weather the 2008 crisis. Now inflation seems to be devouring everything, and German industries are being shipped to the US to bank on dirt cheap Fracking Oil and Gas.

Also "fading prosperity"...Fading compared to what? Russia? Allow me to laugh. China? Allow me to laugh harder.

Europe will be fine. The west will be fine. Russia and China on the other hand....

Compared to itself the downfall is apparent enough, no need to check who's falling down the cliff faster.

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I was about to make a similar comment, but after re-reading it I think he's talking about Russias prosperity was fueled by trading with Europe not the other way around!

I was talking broadly abouth the West, but had more specifically in mind Germany, and how it was allowed to be the locomotive and center of Europe between 2000 and 2020 roughly, weathering a number of crisis that crippled other European countries and banking on the economic development of China among other things.

[diller]

I was talking broadly abouth the West, but had more specifically in mind Germany, and how it was allowed to be the locomotive and center of Europe between 2000 and 2020 roughly, weathering a number of crisis that crippled other European countries and banking on the economic development of China among other things.

Oh so it was the nonsense I thought at first after all.

[Kaleredar]

It depends, the post war economic boom of many western european countries was fueled by rapid industrialization, allowed by rapid urbanization drawing on a still youthful population, rural flight, returnees from the colonies and increasing cohorts of formerly colonized subjects, and as crucially by cheap abundant oil energy.

The latter was crucial enough that its end is in many countries referenced as a pivotal moment, with the 1973 oil crisis marking the end of an era (interestingly enough, in part caused by the Arab countries leveraging their power against supporters of Israel in the Yom Kippur War and its continued occupation of neighboring territories).

This caused many countries to reevaluate their energy policies. Crucially, West Germany, Europe's engine, opted for partership with the Soviets and later Russians, which in due time contributed to its industrial prowess during the early 2000s boom, and allowed it to weather the 2008 crisis. Now inflation seems to be devouring everything, and German industries are being shipped to the US to bank on dirt cheap Fracking Oil and Gas.



Compared to itself the downfall is apparent enough, no need to check who's falling down the cliff faster.

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I was talking broadly abouth the West, but had more specifically in mind Germany, and how it was allowed to be the locomotive and center of Europe between 2000 and 2020 roughly, weathering a number of crisis that crippled other European countries and banking on the economic development of China among other things.

Luckily Europe at large has allied itself with numerous other countries and markets so they can shore up any manufacturing and energy concerns, rather than utterly isolating themselves like… oh, say, Russia did.

[Benggaul]

Luckily Europe at large has allied itself with numerous other countries and markets so they can shore up any manufacturing and energy concerns, rather than utterly isolating themselves like… oh, say, Russia did.

To that point, when Russia shut off the gas to Europe we had one winter where we had to keep the heater turned down slightly lower because prices were shooting up. After that new deals/sources came into play, the prices went back down and everything pretty much went back to normal. We don't need anything from them, so they have precisely zero leverage over "The West".

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

To that point, when Russia shut off the gas to Europe we had one winter where we had to keep the heater turned down slightly lower because prices were shooting up. After that new deals/sources came into play, the prices went back down and everything pretty much went back to normal. We don't need anything from them, so they have precisely zero leverage over "The West".

At least here we've already been asked to save gas for this winter. There has been a steady increase of its price over the years, luckily we're a high income country and our operators worked with long term contracts and not the stupid EU spot price system that allowed for crazy high energy bills in some parts of Europe.