Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Jessicka]

So what's wrong for being zapped for entering a sovereign state's airspace without permission then? Sounds like fair game to me - and I would have harder time believing that someone would even accidentally mistake manned flight with a drone, even the bigger types...

Far odder to allow Russia just freely go through NATO airspace to commit genocide.

Everyone does it, that’s why getting ‘zapped’ for it is not considered okay. When people start getting trigger happy like that, then accidents happen.

As it was eloquently put earlier, it’s not a fucking video game.

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Russia won't do shit if even a manned aircraft gets shot down over an intrusion into the airspaces of NATO countries, for the simple fact that Russia doesn't actually want a conventional war with NATO over such an incident even if it were to happen. It's just yet another red line that can be walked all over without any meaningful response from them.

One, as Turkey managed while they strayed after operating over Syria, sure, you announce it as a policy, the world is going to be pissed and you can expect to start losing your own toys.

[Saradain]

Everyone does it, that’s why getting ‘zapped’ for it is not considered okay. When people start getting trigger happy like that, then accidents happen.

As it was eloquently put earlier, it’s not a fucking video game.

Suppose all we can do is to wag our fingers at the passing genocide machines then. That'll make them regret their actions...

Not an ideal world we live in. I can see more and more how the western civilization is partially responsible for this war prolonging itself. But at least Ukraine may be worth something after the war to exploit.

[Benggaul]

Russia won't do shit if even a manned aircraft gets shot down over an intrusion into the airspaces of NATO countries, for the simple fact that Russia doesn't actually want a conventional war with NATO over such an incident even if it were to happen. It's just yet another red line that can be walked all over without any meaningful response from them.

Correct. Russia dares not advance past sabre rattling because it would then become obvious that what's in their scabbard is just a stick.

[Attackrabbit]

So what's wrong for being zapped for entering a sovereign state's airspace without permission then? Sounds like fair game to me - and I would have harder time believing that someone would even accidentally mistake manned flight with a drone, even the bigger types...

Far odder to allow Russia just freely go through NATO airspace to commit genocide.

FYI. Drone just means unmanned vehicle and there are plenty of examples of older planes being 'turned into' drones so it's perfectly possible to mistake a manned flight with a drone flight...

[Jessicka]

Suppose all we can do is to wag our fingers at the passing genocide machines then. That'll make them regret their actions...

Not an ideal world we live in. I can see more and more how the western civilization is partially responsible for this war prolonging itself. But at least Ukraine may be worth something after the war to exploit.

The right way to deal with it is to provide more and better material support for Ukraine. You can thank Trump and US Republicans for delays and failure to do that.

Changing an international dynamic and unspoken agreement regards overflying airspace wouldn’t be as helpful in Ukraine and potentially massively damaging in other parts of the world.

[Saradain]

The right way to deal with it is to provide more and better material support for Ukraine. You can thank Trump and US Republicans for delays and failure to do that.

Changing an international dynamic and unspoken agreement regards overflying airspace wouldn’t be as helpful in Ukraine and potentially massively damaging in other parts of the world.

Let's see how many more ukrainians have to die before we can turn the license to kill knob to eleven. Russia bad for invading, Russia not bad enough for allies to help...to let Ukraine defend effectively enough, but Russia bad for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

The wheel of death keeps ever turning.

[Gabriel]

Let's see how many more ukrainians have to die before we can turn the license to kill knob to eleven. Russia bad for invading, Russia not bad enough for allies to help...to let Ukraine defend effectively enough, but Russia bad for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

The wheel of death keeps ever turning.

But muh quality of life in my Western country.

Putin might say something that will make me shit my pants!

[Jessicka]

But muh quality of life in my Western country.

Putin might say something that will make me shit my pants!

Or rather, start shooting Russian stuff down over Poland and start losing yours and your allies stuff in the South China Sea.

Seriously I’ve said before I wouldn’t actually be opposed to putting NATO troops in Ukraine or enforcing a no fly zone over Ukraine.

[DarkTZeratul]

Hey remember that time Turkey didn't bother asking questions and just shot down a Russian military aircraft that violated its airspace and Russia had to suck it up?

No, because Turkey very much DID bother asking questions. They sent multiple queries to the fighter and only shot it down when the pilot repeatedly failed to respond.

[Gabriel]

Despite my initial statement, I don't actually think you and Yuppers are anything alike. I think you're just itching to do something more proactive because you don't like what Russia is doing to Ukraine. I absolutely understand that even if I don't always agree with the method.

Yuppers, on the other hand, just wants WW3 because he's bored and wants entertainment.

Ehh my brain is fried on this topic, but I just wanted to say that I know. Don't worry, I didn't take it personally in the first place.

[alach]

Back to the news. Was kind of waiting for Corvus to post this one, but guess I'll go ahead with my commentary being, "BOOM!"
Ukraine strikes Moscow in biggest drone attack to date

Reuters— Ukraine struck the Moscow region on Tuesday in its biggest drone attack so far on the Russian capital, killing at least one woman, wrecking dozens of homes and forcing around 50 flights to be diverted from airports around Moscow.

Russia, the world’s biggest nuclear power, said it destroyed at least 20 Ukrainian attack drones as they swarmed over the Moscow region, which has a population of more than 21 million, and 124 more over eight other regions.

At least one person was killed near Moscow, Russian authorities said. Three of Moscow’s four airports were closed for more than six hours and almost 50 flights were diverted.

Kyiv said Russia, which sent tens of thousands of troops into Ukraine in February 2022, had attacked it overnight with 46 drones, of which 38 were destroyed.

The drone attacks on Russia damaged at high-rise apartment buildings in the Ramenskoye district of the Moscow region, setting flats on fire, residents told Reuters.

In an amazingly hypocritical quote of proportions so epic they are matched only by Donald Trump and his team, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters;

"The Kyiv regime continues to demonstrate its nature. They are our enemies and we must continue the special military operation to protect ourselves from such actions," he said, using the expression Moscow uses to describe its war in Ukraine.

Followed by;
Russians attack energy facilities in 8 Ukrainian oblasts

The Russians have attacked civilian energy infrastructure in Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, Mykolaiv, Poltava, Sumy, Kharkiv, Kherson and Chernihiv oblasts over the past 24 hours.
In Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, attacks twice cut off power to a substation, household consumers and a water utility. Additionally, another substation, consumers and the railway were also left without power, although there were no train disruptions. The power supply has been restored via a backup scheme.
In Sumy Oblast, an attack on an overhead line resulted in the blackout for a substation and residential consumers in Kharkiv Oblast. The power supply has been restored via a backup scheme.

And ending with;
Kremlin seeks intermediaries for negotiations with Ukraine – ISW

Kremlin officials are likely attempting to shape international peace mediation efforts in the war in Ukraine while simultaneously demonstrating Russia's unwillingness to engage in good-faith negotiations with Ukraine.

...

plz send good vibes for my missing cat.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

So what's wrong for being zapped for entering a sovereign state's airspace without permission then?

Because it's not always intentional. It could be a pilot got lost. It could be equipment failure. It could be he just needs to find somewhere to land.

And if you have zero tolerance policy regarding aircraft entering your airspace...expect your neighbours to adopt a similar policy. And that's gonna make everyone real tense.

[Saradain]

Because it's not always intentional. It could be a pilot got lost. It could be equipment failure. It could be he just needs to find somewhere to land.

And if you have zero tolerance policy regarding aircraft entering your airspace...expect your neighbours to adopt a similar policy.

Living in Finland, every single airspace violation by russians has been intentional. There's nations who have done legitimate mistakes. And then there's Russia, who does it for fun. With some good ol' GPS signal jamming all around the border area.

Or perhaps not allowing genocide-committing aircraft through your borders...There's no reason for fully armed russian drones to be cruising in NATO airspace.

But yah, status quo remains.

I'll add this not-so-related article how Russia conducts things in general.

https://yle.fi/a/3-12664441

St Petersburg court finds Finland guilty of 'genocide' during 1940s Leningrad siege

The St Petersburg City Court has declared the siege of Leningrad a war crime and Finland a complicit party in its undertaking.

The siege of Leningrad took place between September 1941 and January 1944, which coincided with the Continuation War for Finland. The blockade of the Soviet city is considered one of the longest and most destructive sieges in history.

According to Russian media outlets RBK and Meduza, the court added that the siege of St Petersburg—formerly known as Leningrad— was not only a war crime, but a crime against humanity and a genocide of the Soviet people. The case was filed in the court by Russia's Prosecutor-General Igor Krasnov in September.

The court's ruling specified that the siege of the Soviet city involved "the occupying forces and German troops, their accomplices— armed units formed on the territory of Belgium, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Norway and Finland, and individual Austrian, Latvian, Polish, French and Czech volunteers".

Russian state news agency TASS reported that the court had heard four people who lived during the siege and 12 experts who had examined top secret material.

According to the prosecutor's office, more than a million people died during the blockade and the damage exceeded 35 trillion roubles in today's money, which is about 600 billion euros.

Oh wew lad, Russia conducts its own trial, with no opposition allowed and no facts were hurt making this show.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I'll add this not-so-related article how Russia conducts things in general.

Oh wew lad, Russia conducts its own trial, with no opposition allowed and no facts were hurt making this show.

Hey, im not defending the Russians. I'm just trying to get you to understand that starting World War 3 might not be the best idea.

[Saradain]

Hey, im not defending the Russians. I'm just trying to get you to understand that starting World War 3 might not be the best idea.

Aye I can see that. Just baffles my mind in general how fully armed russian drones are just allowed to pass to commit more war crimes. Their intent is fully known.

But preventing further genocidal acts is suddenly making everyone all around the world to start zapping aircraft left and right progressing towards a world war...

And besides, NATO is not part of the war, ergo, why should NATO allow their airspace to be used to participate in a genocidal war?

[Gabriel]

Hey, im not defending the Russians. I'm just trying to get you to understand that starting World War 3 might not be the best idea.

Alright. Let's adopt 1 tolerance per month policy. Starting on the 1st of each month we allow one incursion into NATO airspace, and after that we shoot down everything.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

And besides, NATO is not part of the war, ergo, why should NATO allow their airspace to be used to participate in a genocidal war?

Start shooting down every single russian aircraft that crosses over and that will change...

[Saradain]

Start shooting down every single russian aircraft that crosses over and that will change...

NATO had more balls in the 90s...Perhaps NATO should be allowed to just outright fly across Russia with fake arms supplies deliveries to Ukraine. If Russia shoots NATO planes down...

And defending your own airspace is not an act of war. Turkey is not at war with Russia. Poland can warn russians to not fly over their airspace multiple times too.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

NATO had more balls in the 90s...Perhaps NATO should be allowed to just outright fly across Russia with fake arms supplies deliveries to Ukraine. If Russia shoots NATO planes down...

And defending your own airspace is not an act of war. Turkey is not at war with Russia. Poland can warn russians to not fly over their airspace multiple times too.

Yes, after warnings to go back into their own air space were ignored. That's a little different than just shooting first and asking questions later.

[Saradain]

Yes, after warnings to go back into their own air space were ignored. That's a little different than just shooting first and asking questions later.

Imagined scenario:

Polish generals inform Russia that from now on, violating polish airspace with fully armed military drones ready for war is not tolerated. Since russians are slow learners, repeat the same warning 10 times.

Russian drones keep going through Poland to kill civilians. Poland shoots them down.

WORLD WAR 3???

Yeah, this world is fucked. Defending is now attacking, stopping genocide is starting one. War is for peace. Killing bad, but intervening is worse.

I'd say YUPPIE played enough of certain types of dystopic games. Easy to live in a fantasy land when real world imitates art.