Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Wilian]

Losing the US insofar as Trump can stand in the way of Congress and other government bodies who actually realize the strategic benefit of backing Ukraine indeed sucks… but let’s be real here, there’s an entire rest of the world outside of just the US, who have armaments to the teeth that they can and have been giving to Ukraine. And areas they have for improvement in doing so.

The US chose poorly in many, many ways in this past election. One of those ways is the consequences for Ukraine. But the governments… and people… of the EU, UK, and rest of Europe and NATO need not make such poor choices as well, least of all throw up their hands or decide now is the time to chicken out because the US is about to become “conflicted” by one fat orange slob on the issue.

If last 3 years and the direction of some key countries are of any indication I wouldn't hold my breath of any significant change in foreserable future. Even after 3 years of big talks EU hasn't been able to put forward any serious expansion of armament production despite big talks. We are still stuck debating whetever internal EU loans can be even used for war material because currently its not permitted. There are some countries that try like Nordics and Poland but sheer size of the conflict and own necessities as border countries limit the aid (that already exceeds anyone else in the world going by capita).

All I foresee is misery for Ukraine as far as plain numbers are concerned.

[Corvus]

A few things have been happening of late;

Pootie has ordered a cut in the benefits paid to the wounded - it used to be 3 million rubles regardless of wounds, but that remains only for 'severe' wounds. It is only 100,000 for 'minor injuries' now. And who gets to decide the severity? Someone who is going to get very rich for bribes that is who.

russia's largest film studio, Mosfilm, has said that last year it handed over a bunch of ancient armoured vehicles (T55s, PT&6s) to the russian military. That they accept such ancient movie props says much about how desperate they are for anything that moves.

And food prices continue to rise sharply, even as russia sends 100s of thousands of tons of food to North Korea as payment for men and weapons. russia's Federal Statistics Service released 'offical' figures that showed potatoes up by 73% since the start of the year, butter up 30%, onions and beets up 20% and other food up 12-15%. It's almost certain, given how much the russian government lies, that it will be higher. These were the figures they were basically forced to admit to. And Russians spent much more of their pay on food compared to western shoppers - it used to be 50% but in some cases it is up to 66%.

Of course, all this hard work will likely be undone by pootie's stooge once he assumes office.

[Elenos]

....Why in gods name is this day and age just overflowing with stupid ass Chamberlains?

The answer to dictatorships and their bullshit is not appeasement in any form. Any bullshit they try, needs to be met with overwhelming force. It's the one and only thing that works. Not appeasement, not "calling their ambassador for questioning", little bit of economic sanctions or any other such nonsense.

How god damn long will it take top people at governments to figure out something so plainly obvious and simple? It's not new secret knowledge, it's hard learned lessons from history. Shouldn't be so damn hard.

What would be your solution exactly? I'm wondering.

[Grimbold21]

*scratches head*

Isn't the deployment of troops a declaration of war?

[Gabriel]

*scratches head*

Isn't the deployment of troops a declaration of war?

It don't matter. None of this matters.

The West continues to pussyfoot this as long as Putler doesn't n00k anyone.

[Elenos]

It don't matter. None of this matters.

The West continues to pussyfoot this as long as Putler doesn't n00k anyone.

If only it was that, it would be too sensical for western leaders to not want to provoke because of the nukes, since that is an actual legitimate concern.

But western leaders don't want to: What do you mean we need double our defense spending?! In Europe especially with the love fest over austerity.

[Azadina]

What would be your solution exactly? I'm wondering.

Which part of overwhelming force has left you wondering? Western countries could easily wipe out any naziruski infesting Ukraine, should it actually choose to act.

My solution is exactly that. Terminate their terrorist attack on Ukraine.

Anything else in need of clarifying?

[Neufab]

Which part of overwhelming force has left you wondering? Western countries could easily wipe out any naziruski infesting Ukraine, should it actually choose to act.

My solution is exactly that. Terminate their terrorist attack on Ukraine.

Anything else in need of clarifying?

Amen. There's only one solution to fascist bullies threatning to end you world. End theirs.

[Elenos]

Which part of overwhelming force has left you wondering? Western countries could easily wipe out any naziruski infesting Ukraine, should it actually choose to act.

My solution is exactly that. Terminate their terrorist attack on Ukraine.

Anything else in need of clarifying?

Are you saying the West go to war with Russia in Ukraine? Ground troops, air forces all that?

[Jessicka]

Are you saying the West go to war with Russia in Ukraine? Ground troops, air forces all that?

Wouldn’t last long either way.

[Gabriel]

Are you saying the West go to war with Russia in Ukraine? Ground troops, air forces all that?

We could just BTFO all Russian air assets in Ukrainian airspace and Ukraine could deal with the rest.

[Azadina]

Are you saying the West go to war with Russia in Ukraine? Ground troops, air forces all that?

We could try full on air power and naval assets first, and see if that gets the message across. If not, then troops too.

Sorry, almost forgot the most important part; war? No, never. Special denazification of Ukraine military operation.

[Wilian]

If only it was that, it would be too sensical for western leaders to not want to provoke because of the nukes, since that is an actual legitimate concern.

Fuck your criminally retarded nuke scare, vatnik. Every single post of yours here now is typical appeasament trolling feigning false concerns into inaction. This is well known Kremlin poster tactic. Soon you will whip out the Ukraine should surrender to save lives shit without a doubt.

[Draco-Onis]

I understand a lot of you seem to be in the denial phase of this but let's face the facts. Trump will force Ukraine to eat crow and settle with Russia, you have better odds of winning the jackpot in the US lottery than finding a spine in congress. The republican party has pledged unbridled fealty to the fuhrer not to mention most of their focus right now is on Israel. Trump and republicans wants to annex the West Bank and Gaza, without US leadership Europe will focus inwards. They do not have the capacity to provide Ukraine with arms and build up their own armed forces with America in retreat.

Some of you may think Trump can't pull out of NATO because congress passed a law well I got news for you. A law is only worth the paper it is written on if there are people to enforce it, at the moment there isn't a political body that would force him to do so and that is keeping EU leaders up at night. At the end of the day it's about self preservation European leaders have been in denial and squandered Biden's 4 years now the chickens are coming home to roost.

In this vacuum China will have a field day as power abhors vacuum, this is continuing the downward trend of American power. We will still have the most guns but as with most empires they fall from the rot from within and our rot is going to last way longer than Trump's 4 years. Democrats are looking to be out of power for the next ten years, Europe will be wise to steel themselves act like American support no longer exist and plan accordingly.

[Kralljin]

I understand a lot of you seem to be in the denial phase of this but let's face the facts. Trump will force Ukraine to eat crow and settle with Russia, you have better odds of winning the jackpot in the US lottery than finding a spine in congress.

Call it a cope but taking a step back on this: What would Trump gain from this?

Some people might say that Trump is basically a Manchurian candidate for the Russians but what could they possibly have on him that he just does what they want?
Trump basically got away with everything and holds way more hard as well as soft power that Putin could dream off, so what could the Russians even do if Trump were to "turn" on them?
Ukraine isn't Gaza, an area that holds neither strategic nor economic relevance, it has a ton of resources.

And that's the crux, Trump seems to think very transactionally, if Ukraine is willing to promise their abundance of natural resource to Trump (reminder, area around Crimea seems to hold some gas as well as oil which US companies were working on until they got kicked out) they could make him an enticing deal.
Trump sure as shit doesn't give a shit about escalation or other potential risks, he just dislikes that the US seemingly gives aid and weapons to Ukraine pro bono.

Naturally, whoring yourself out to Trump isn't great but the alternative is that he will just let Putin do his thing, which very likely be worse under every circumstance.
Issue here might Trump's short attention span and would call it off if results aren't there within months, i guess.
It would also completely flip the script domestically if Trump were to suddenly double down on Ukrainian aid in order to secure american interests.

[postman1782]

Call it a cope but taking a step back on this: What would Trump gain from this?

Some people might say that Trump is basically a Manchurian candidate for the Russians but what could they possibly have on him that he just does what they want?
Trump basically got away with everything and holds way more hard as well as soft power that Putin could dream off, so what could the Russians even do if Trump were to "turn" on them?
Ukraine isn't Gaza, an area that holds neither strategic nor economic relevance, it has a ton of resources.

And that's the crux, Trump seems to think very transactionally, if Ukraine is willing to promise their abundance of natural resource to Trump (reminder, area around Crimea seems to hold some gas as well as oil which US companies were working on until they got kicked out) they could make him an enticing deal.
Trump sure as shit doesn't give a shit about escalation or other potential risks, he just dislikes that the US seemingly gives aid and weapons to Ukraine pro bono.

Naturally, whoring yourself out to Trump isn't great but the alternative is that he will just let Putin do his thing, which very likely be worse under every circumstance.
Issue here might Trump's short attention span and would call it off if results aren't there within months, i guess.

Trump owes over $400 million to Russia right now. That is what he gains.

[Kralljin]

Trump owes over $400 million to Russia right now. That is what he gains.

And how does Russia want to enforce the bill?
If Trump has near ultimate power coming January with Congress and Supreme court having his back, why should he be afraid of Russians wanting to collect the debt?

If the predictions about Trump having to abide by no rules are true, then why should the most powerful man in the world bow to Putin?
Trump can just cancel his own debt and go to Putin "make me an offer".

[postman1782]

And how does Russia want to enforce the bill?
If Trump has near ultimate power coming January with Congress and Supreme court having his back, why should he be afraid of Russians wanting to collect the debt?

If the predictions about Trump having to abide by no rules are true, then why should the most powerful man in the world bow to Putin?
Trump can just cancel his own debt and go to Putin "make me an offer".

Russia will forgive his debt if he gives them Ukraine.

[PhaelixWW]

Russia will forgive his debt if he gives them Ukraine.

It's not his to give.

I can hear the Snake Island sequel right now: "American dictator, go fuck yourself!"

[postman1782]

It's not his to give.

I can hear the Snake Island sequel right now: "American dictator, go fuck yourself!"

If he cuts them off like he wants to, they pretty much fold without our help.