Russian invasion of Ukraine

[hellhamster]

The same could be asked of you and yet you'd probably claim to have known the answer all along. I know you'll use this nonanswer as some sort of win or "gotcha" but I would still be right in saying so regardless.

I grew up in a village with all sorts of people who escaped from the Soviet Union, as well as people from Albania, Romania, Turkey, middle east etc. I've always been interested in other cultures because of that, so I picked up a thing or 2 growing up.

I don't care about winning an argument, I only asked if you at least know where Kyiv is on the map or if you know about the east/west dichotomy.

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So we've gone from,

"You should help Ukraine by sending aid to California instead!"

to

"To help Ukraine Zelensky should be killed, my Ukrainian friend totally told me this and you're all awful for doubting me."

Dean fucking Browning, my man. Go back and re-read that tweet I posted the screencap of.

I'm worried about the folks in Greece, man.

I don't care if you believe me, but maybe talk to actual Ukrainians about the war, and maybe you will see something else. I talked to someone with family in Kyiv, if I had talked to someone who grew up in let's say Donetsk, their opinion would likely be entirely different.

[Edge-]

I don't care if you believe me, but maybe talk to actual Ukrainians about the war, and maybe you will see something else. I talked to someone from Kyiv, if I talked to someone from let's say Donetsk, their opinion would be entirely different.

Are these actual Ukrainians in the room with us now?

Excuse me if I don't take you as a very trustworthy source given your recent postings and displayed ignorance.

[hellhamster]

Are these actual Ukrainians in the room with us now?

Excuse me if I don't take you as a very trustworthy source given your recent postings and displayed ignorance.

I don't care, but you should ask them. Don't take it from me. Go to little Odessa and talk to people.

[Edge-]

I don't care, but you should ask them. Don't take it from me. Go to little Odessa and talk to people.

"The Ukrainian people want Russia to rule them!"

OK.

[hellhamster]

"The Ukrainian people want Russia to rule them!"

OK.

Yes, and to be honest with you, you would likely give the same response if you had family living there, when survival trumps fucking geopolitical ideology. The Ukrainians are tired from this west/east crap in their country that has been pulling them like a tug of war, a tumor that has been growing for over a decade now.

Wanna help Ukrainians? Kill Putin. Or Zelensky. It doesn't fucking matter anymore.

[Edge-]

Yes, and to be honest with you, you would likely give the same response if you had family living there, when survival trumps fucking geopolitical ideology. The Ukrainians are tired from this west/east crap in their country that has been pulling them like a tug of war, a tumor that has been growing for over a decade now.

As I said: Dean fucking Browning.

That's now two Greek posters who come in saying they're totally not Russia shills while either saying misinformation/other factually incorrect stuff and/or just outright towing the Russian propaganda line.

I'm not saying it's a pattern yet, but it is interesting.

Ukraine should just roll over for Russia, not that Russia should fuck back off to their own borders. Predictable.

[hellhamster]

However, I talked to a person who has roots from Kyiv who just wants to see this shit end and his people safe. Other Ukrainians wanna fight for their sovereignty, and I applaud them for that.

[Polgara]

Yes, and to be honest with you, you would likely give the same response if you had family living there, when survival trumps fucking geopolitical ideology. The Ukrainians are tired from this west/east crap in their country that has been pulling them like a tug of war, a tumor that has been growing for over a decade now.

Wanna help Ukrainians? Kill Putin. Or Zelensky. It doesn't fucking matter anymore.

You have a source for these claims though, yeah? Like was there a national Ukranian referendum for what they wanted and how to end the war?

Like, to me, the fact the people are still willing to defend, and fight, to keep russia out kinda, at the sniff test, tells me they don't want to be a part of Russia, however I might just be too simple and thinking "people choosing to throw their lives for a cause don't really believe or care about that cause".

[hellhamster]

As I said: Dean fucking Browning.

That's now two Greek posters who come in saying they're totally not Russia shills while either saying misinformation/other factually incorrect stuff and/or just outright towing the Russian propaganda line.

I'm not saying it's a pattern yet, but it is interesting.

Ukraine should just roll over for Russia, not that Russia should fuck back off to their own borders. Predictable.

Like I said my guy, talk to Ukrainians about it. Take your car and go to where Ukrainians live and have their shops. Ask them how they feel about this war. Don't take my word for it. Again, I don't care, yet you keep bringing it up.

[Edge-]

Like I said my guy, talk to Ukrainians about it. Take your car and go to where Ukrainians live and have their shops. Ask them how they feel about this war. Don't take my word for it. Again, I don't care, yet you keep bringing it up.

Ukrainian expats not living in the warzone? I'm more interested in Ukrainian folks still in Ukraine and their opinion than expats, personally. They do have a bit more skin in the game given that their skin is literally in the game.

[hellhamster]

You have a source for these claims though, yeah? Like was there a national Ukranian referendum for what they wanted and how to end the war?

Like, to me, the fact the people are still willing to defend, and fight, to keep russia out kinda, at the sniff test, tells me they don't want to be a part of Russia, however I might just be too simple and thinking "people choosing to throw their lives for a cause don't really believe or care about that cause".

Yes, of course these people exist, and like I said, I applaud them for that.

[Polgara]

Yes, of course these people exist, and like I said, I applaud them for that.

So you don't have any evidence to provide? Shocking.

[hellhamster]

Ukrainian expats not living in the warzone? I'm more interested in Ukrainian folks still in Ukraine and their opinion than expats, personally. They do have a bit more skin in the game given that their skin is literally in the game.

Maybe they have grandparents or even parents in the region, ask these guys how they feel if they can't bring their family to the US or Poland and keep them safe.

[Endus]

Like I said my guy, talk to Ukrainians about it. Take your car and go to where Ukrainians live and have their shops. Ask them how they feel about this war. Don't take my word for it. Again, I don't care, yet you keep bringing it up.

You realize we get a lot of discussion from/with Ukrainians, right? And that the entire reason for the war is their resistance against the invasion?

Sure seems like you are the one not engaging with Ukrainians. And don't pull the "I super serial support Ukraine!" when every argument you make is about how they shouldn't get American support and should just surrender to Russia. You're openly contradicting yourself and expecting no one to be able to connect those handful of dots.

[hellhamster]

So you don't have any evidence to provide? Shocking.

I applaud the people who want to fight Russia. Like I said, my friend's response also shocked me and it even angered me. Why doesn't he wanna go there and fight? But it's not so black and white.

[Edge-]

Maybe they have grandparents or even parents in the region, ask these guys how they feel if they can't bring their family to the US or Poland and keep them safe.

Maybe they commute from their home in Ukraine to Greece ever day. Anything is possible for your Totally Real Ukrainian Friends! Next you'll be telling us about your long-distance girlfriend in Canada.

[Polgara]

Ukrainian expats not living in the warzone? I'm more interested in Ukrainian folks still in Ukraine and their opinion than expats, personally. They do have a bit more skin in the game given that their skin is literally in the game.

I only know OF some opinions of only a handful of Ukranians (my son's mother has a number of friends she's met who are in Ukraine). Not a single one wants to be under a Russian thumb. So, with that evidence, I guess I can say anyone claiming Ukraine doesn't care is full of shit, right?

[hellhamster]

You realize we get a lot of discussion from/with Ukrainians, right? And that the entire reason for the war is their resistance against the invasion?

Sure seems like you are the one not engaging with Ukrainians. And don't pull the "I super serial support Ukraine!" when every argument you make is about how they shouldn't get American support and should just surrender to Russia. You're openly contradicting yourself and expecting no one to be able to connect those handful of dots.

My issue is that that is not proper support. Like I said, if you really wanna support Ukrainians, murder Putin. If that fails and the war keeps going on for years and years, murder Zelensky, let Ukrainians have their peace at least if they can't win.

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I only know OF some opinions of only a handful of Ukranians (my son's mother has a number of friends she's met who are in Ukraine). Not a single one wants to be under a Russian thumb. So, with that evidence, I guess I can say anyone claiming Ukraine doesn't care is full of shit, right?

For the fourth time, that was one opinion of a Ukrainian from Kyiv. Someone from Donetsk might think differently.

[Polgara]

My issue is that that is not proper support. Like I said, if you really wanna support Ukrainians, murder Putin. If that fails and the war keeps going on for years and years, murder Zelensky, let Ukrainians have their peace at least if they can't win.

This is an incredibly weird take; Like, just go kill one person and that'll fix it all? A head of state no less, that definitely won't potentially have ulterior consequences that you refuse to think about because then it wouldn't be simple.

Just going in and killing off heads of state, no matter how vile, evil, malicious etc they are, doesn't solve shit like this; If there was a safe and guaranteed solution, wouldn't it have been enacted by now?

[hellhamster]

Maybe they commute from their home in Ukraine to Greece ever day. Anything is possible for your Totally Real Ukrainian Friends! Next you'll be telling us about your long-distance girlfriend in Canada.

What are you even talking about? You don't seem sane.