Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Edge-]

You said "Ukranians" not "One person from Kyiv with whom I will not give any verification that I'm not just blatantly lying". So, one person is your entire formulation of how to solve this invasion without repercussions? Seems a bit farfetched to me.

That's the official spokesperson for every Ukrainian, don't you know?

[hellhamster]

This is an incredibly weird take; Like, just go kill one person and that'll fix it all? A head of state no less, that definitely won't potentially have ulterior consequences that you refuse to think about because then it wouldn't be simple.

Just going in and killing off heads of state, no matter how vile, evil, malicious etc they are, doesn't solve shit like this; If there was a safe and guaranteed solution, wouldn't it have been enacted by now?

It's just a figure of speech. My argument is that the US is doing the absolute bare minimum to actually help Ukrainians, they keep the fans of war alive just enough to have a small finger in the region instead of fully backing Ukraine and doing everything they can to end the war.

[Endus]

My issue is that that is not proper support.

You don't get to determine that. It's the support Ukraine's asking for. They have the say.

Like I said, if you really wanna support Ukrainians, murder Putin.

"If you support Ukraine, start a war with their enemy" is a ridiculous position.

If that fails and the war keeps going on for years and years, murder Zelensky, let Ukrainians have their peace at least if they can't win.

And this is where we can tell you do not support Ukraine, despite your empty and false claims otherwise.

[hellhamster]

You said "Ukranians" not "One person from Kyiv with whom I will not give any verification that I'm not just blatantly lying". So, one person is your entire formulation of how to solve this invasion without repercussions? Seems a bit farfetched to me.

Dude, it's just an opinion. It's not even an opinion I fully support, I only said I understand it.

[Belize]

Big making shit up energy.

[Polgara]

Dude, it's just an opinion. It's not even an opinion I fully support, I only said I understand it.

You can have opinions, but the opinion of "this shit will be fixed by america murdering a head of state" needs evidence that the opinion isn't just delusion. You have >one< person who told you something, that could have just been a Russian troll for all we know (and likewise, my claim of having spoken through an intermediate about Ukrainian opinion the same), but I never claimed something as extreme as "murder zelensky or putin and shit will fix".

You want to have opinions that go PAST the realm of entirely subjective taste, you need to put some effort in. You don't want to, then don't be surprised when people call it out because it's incongruent to reality.

[hellhamster]

You don't get to determine that. It's the support Ukraine's asking for. They have the say.



"If you support Ukraine, start a war with their enemy" is a ridiculous position.



And this is where we can tell you do not support Ukraine, despite your empty and false claims otherwise.

For the third time (I think), I only support Ukrainians and peace. I would much rather Zelensky win this war in the end, I hate seeing Ukrainians lose their sovereignty and all democratic processes. Unfortunately many people have to die for any side to come on top in the end. I just wish there was a solution that's better than anything presented, because so far nothing is working.

[Edge-]

For the third time (I think), I only support Ukrainians and peace. I would much rather Zelensky win this war in the end, I hate seeing Ukrainians lose their sovereignty and all democratic processes. Unfortunately many people have to die for any side to come on top in the end. I just wish there was a solution that's better than anything presented, because so far nothing is working.

There is a solution, one you've never brought up!

Russia can always fuck off back to their territorial borders and stop invading Ukraine. But I guess it's preferable for Ukraine to surrender, since you're so pro-Ukrainian?

[hellhamster]

You can have opinions, but the opinion of "this shit will be fixed by america murdering a head of state" needs evidence that the opinion isn't just delusion. You have >one< person who told you something, that could have just been a Russian troll for all we know (and likewise, my claim of having spoken through an intermediate about Ukrainian opinion the same), but I never claimed something as extreme as "murder zelensky or putin and shit will fix".

You want to have opinions that go PAST the realm of entirely subjective taste, you need to put some effort in. You don't want to, then don't be surprised when people call it out because it's incongruent to reality.

I only shared that opinion because people need to realise it's not that black or white. I think it's obvious you can't win by just murdering a head of state, for the second time it's just a figure of speech to reiterate that if we really cared about Ukrainians, this war needs to end fast.

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There is a solution, one you've never brought up!

Russia can always fuck off back to their territorial borders and stop invading Ukraine. But I guess it's preferable for Ukraine to surrender, since you're so pro-Ukrainian?

AGAIN, I HOPE Ukraine wins.

[Endus]

For the third time (I think), I only support Ukrainians and peace.

You support the peace of Ukrainian mass graves, you mean.

Why would we take your claims seriously when you openly advocate for Ukrainian surrender to Russia? That makes it excruciatingly clear you are not on Ukraine's side in all this. There's no way we can take your counterclaims seriously. It's like claiming that you love kids but also you're the person who calls the cops constantly because your neighbour's kids keep making noise playing in their backyard. It's clear only one of those things is true, and which it is.

To be clear; we have heard you say that you support Ukraine. And we have also heard you condemn Ukraine and their resistance and argue they should surrender and Zelensky should be killed. It's real fuckin' easy to see that the first is just a lie.

[Edge-]

AGAIN, I HOPE Ukraine wins.

That's nice, but we can read the rest of your posts and remember what you wrote, you know.

[hellhamster]

You support the peace of Ukrainian mass graves, you mean.

Why would we take your claims seriously when you openly advocate for Ukrainian surrender to Russia? That makes it excruciatingly clear you are not on Ukraine's side in all this. There's no way we can take your counterclaims seriously. It's like claiming that you love kids but also you're the person who calls the cops constantly because your neighbour's kids keep making noise playing in their backyard. It's clear only one of those things is true, and which it is.

To be clear; we have heard you say that you support Ukraine. And we have also heard you condemn Ukraine and their resistance and argue they should surrender and Zelensky should be killed. It's real fuckin' easy to see that the first is just a lie.

Incorrect, I said I hope the war ends quickly by any means necessary. If Zelensky wins and Russia fucks off, that's a big win, but if Russia wins and Zelensky fucks off, that is not preferable, because they will likely lose their sovereingty, but at least no more Ukrainians will be killed.

[Polgara]

I only shared that opinion because people need to realise it's not that black or white. I think it's obvious you can't win by just murdering a head of state, for the second time it's just a figure of speech to reiterate that if we really cared about Ukrainians, this war needs to end fast.

Yes, and to be honest with you, you would likely give the same response if you had family living there, when survival trumps fucking geopolitical ideology. The Ukrainians are tired from this west/east crap in their country that has been pulling them like a tug of war, a tumor that has been growing for over a decade now.

This isn't an opinion, though, it's a statement of fact. So if we take your original post as an opinion, essentially you think Ukranians are tired of east/west; and murdering either head of state will fix the war? If not, what is your ACTUAL opinion here? Because the only cogent thought you've made is this is only solved through murdering a head of state, even though "Russia fucks off" is also a very real solution that can be implemented, as well as "America needs to go fight Russia themselves".

[Endus]

Incorrect, I said I hope the war ends quickly by any means necessary.

And there's the problem.

If Zelensky wins and Russia fucks off, that's a big win, but if Russia wins and Zelensky fucks off, that is not preferable, because they will likely lose their sovereingty, but at least no more Ukrainians will be killed.

Because Russia is a state that tolerates political opposition with grace and fairness?

Again, this is why we can't take your protests seriously. You're just firmly in the pro-Russia camp, and every time you try and claim otherwise, you make statements like this which clearly demonstrate otherwise.

[Edge-]

Incorrect, I said I hope the war ends quickly by any means necessary.

Russia has dropped a nuke on Kyiv. The war is over. hellmaster, apparently, is happy with the quick end to the war.

If Zelensky wins and Russia fucks off, that's a big win, but if Russia wins and Zelensky fucks off, that is not preferable, because they will likely lose their sovereingty, but at least no more Ukrainians will be killed.

Surely Russia wouldn't kill any Ukrainians after taking over the country. Surely. Nope, there's no precedent of Russian soldiers killing civilians and dumping bodies in mass graves or anything from their invasion of Ukraine alone.

It's like you've paid zero attention to this whole war but demand to be taken seriously as an informed participant in the conversation.

[hellhamster]

Russia has dropped a nuke on Kyiv. The war is over. hellmaster, apparently, is happy with the quick end to the war.



Surely Russia wouldn't kill any Ukrainians after taking over the country. Surely. Nope, there's no precedent of Russian soldiers killing civilians and dumping bodies in mass graves or anything from their invasion of Ukraine alone.

It's like you've paid zero attention to this whole war but demand to be taken seriously as an informed participant in the conversation.

Yes, let's keep doing what we're doing, keep prolonging this war for decades. That works wonders. A few missiles from the US here, another drone strike there, surely Putin (or whoever will be in charge when he's gone) will lose support and money eventually.

[Endus]

Surely Russia wouldn't kill any Ukrainians after taking over the country. Surely. Nope, there's no precedent of Russian soldiers killing civilians and dumping bodies in mass graves or anything from their invasion of Ukraine alone.

It's like you've paid zero attention to this whole war but demand to be taken seriously as an informed participant in the conversation.

Like, they were claiming the entire Ukrainian government was run by Nazis until they dropped that and have now turned to claiming that Ukrainians are all worshippers of Satan.

Surely they won't engage in progroms or the like in the event that Russia wins and takes over Ukraine, right? Like they have in the past and like how they regularly murder Russian dissidents already?

[Edge-]

Yes, let's keep doing what we're doing, keep prolonging this war for decades. That works wonders.

We're approaching year 3 of the "3-day special operation", we're still a long way off from reaching a singular decade.

If I didn't know better I'd think you're actively trying to make sure nobody takes you seriously.

[Endus]

Yes, let's keep doing what we're doing, keep prolonging this war for decades. That works wonders.

I think that's up to Ukraine, more than anyone. You clearly don't, and want Russia to win.

Particularly when a macro-scale look at Russia shows collapsing support for the war and climbing economic chaos.

[hellhamster]

We're approaching year 3 of the "3-day special operation", we're still a long way off from reaching a singular decade.

If I didn't know better I'd think you're actively trying to make sure nobody takes you seriously.

Maidan was in 2014.

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I think that's up to Ukraine, more than anyone. You clearly don't, and want Russia to win.

Particularly when a macro-scale look at Russia shows collapsing support for the war and climbing economic chaos.

I hope you're right.