Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Gabriel]

According to me or according to Russia? My opinion is irrelevant. According to Russia:

What Russia says is absolutely irrelevant. What is your own opinion on how to interpret what the actual Russia's and Putin's goal was?

[hellhamster]

What Russia says is absolutely irrelevant. What is your own opinion on how to interpret what the actual Russia's and Putin's goal was?

I stated above. Geopolitical expansionism which was fueled by NATO incompetence.

[Gabriel]

I stated above. Geopolitical expansionism which was fueled by NATO incompetence.

No. It was fueled by Putin's desire to create the Neo-Soviet Union.

[Iphie]

I think that NATO fucked up in this case, because they could have anticipated it. They knew full well that Russia could find a reason to invade, there were many geopolitical analysts predicting this. Instead of going for the safe option by upholding the status quo, no, they decided to make Ukraine a geopolitical hot zone. Ukraine was not in the EU, not in NATO, and that gave Putin all the ammunition he needed.

Is Russia the absolute asshole in this case? Obviously. Could NATO have prevented this entire war? Absolutely. Who suffers the most from this? Ukrainians.

Only by betraying all of it's principles.

[Belize]

3 years into this war and we still have muppets that are screeching "ThIs Is NaTo'S fAuLt!".

[Kaleredar]

I stated above. Geopolitical expansionism which was fueled by NATO incompetence.

NATO has zero impetus to give a flying fuck what Russia thinks.

And again I posit: if Russia was no threat to Ukraine, why was Ukraine entertaining thoughts of joining NATO?

[Nymrohd]

NATO has zero impetus to give a flying fuck what Russia thinks.

And again I posit: if Russia was no threat to Ukraine, why was Ukraine entertaining thoughts of joining NATO?

Time and again, NATO NATO NATO. Can everyone just shut up about NATO?

Economy matters more. Ukraine joining the Single Market in any shape of form, whether by regulatory alignment, a customs union or full-on accession was the greater threat. Russia used to maintain a 10 billion USD trade surplus with Ukraine. That's the money being protected. Ukraine with access to any form of the Single Market is outside the economic sphere of influence of Russia. It is a loss of trade, a loss of strength for the rubble, and a gradual loss of a 40+million people market that shared language and culture. It meant infrastructure development under common EU standards instead of Russian standards. And ofc it meant that valuable resources would end up developed and exploited by EU and US instead of Russia.
The Ukrainian people (like the Georgian people) cared far more about joining the EU than NATO. And it's not like it has to be a package deal. Up until recently we had plenty of countries in the EU that were not in NATO.

[Dezerte]

Nazi Germany only wanted lebensraum because the Jews provoked them.

/s (do I need this?)

[Iphie]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...bing_reg_first

The US's proposed economic 'compensation' deal with Ukraine is 'worse than the reparations imposed on Germany' - The Telegraph

It includes more than just control of the country's critical minerals - it covers everything from ports and infrastructure to oil and gas, as well as the country's larger resource base. It says:
▪️The US and Ukraine should form a joint investment fund to ensure that "hostile parties to the conflict do not benefit from Ukraine's reconstruction";
▪️The US would take 50% of Ukraine's current revenues from resource extraction, and 50% of the financial value of "all new licences issued to third parties" for future resource monetisation. There would be a "collateral charge on such revenues" in favour of the US;
▪️Zelensky "did not expect to face conditions usually imposed on aggressor states defeated in war".

A new Versailles
If this draft were accepted, Trump’s demands would amount to a higher share of Ukrainian GDP than reparations imposed on Germany at the Versailles Treaty, later whittled down at the London Conference in 1921, and by the Dawes Plan in 1924. At the same time, he seems willing to let Russia off the hook entirely.

Jezus fuck, the telegraph aint wrong here...

[KrayZ33]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...bing_reg_first




Jezus fuck, the telegraph aint wrong here...

Excuse me wtf?!
Why exactly would Ukraine not just surrender to Russia instead?

Can someone please start doing something against the USA (like... THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THAT COUNTRY for example?)? It's clearly becoming unacceptable to a world ending degree.

So far, one person in that country actually did something - a true hero btw, people just don't realize it yet.

[Timester]

"▪️The US and Ukraine should form a joint investment fund to ensure that "hostile parties to the conflict do not benefit from Ukraine's reconstruction""


Whom, some random small nation in Africa?

[Poopymonster]

Nazi Germany only wanted lebensraum because the Jews provoked them.

/s (do I need this?)

Yes. Yes you do need it. That's the point the world has reached.

[LeGin v4]

Fuck me, the US really is repositioning itself isn't it

I wonder what's next? Actually providing military assistance to Russia?

[Iphie]

Excuse me wtf?!
Why exactly would Ukraine not just surrender to Russia instead?

Can someone please start doing something against the USA (like... THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THAT COUNTRY for example?)? It's clearly becoming unacceptable to a world ending degree.

So far, one person in that country actually did something - a true hero btw, people just don't realized it yet.

Yeah, like Germany had the "Dolchstoss" legend, which was BS of course, but this, this would actually be a genuine Dolchstoss, stab in the back, and then there's people who have the audacity to say: "Zelenskyy is short sighted for not signing" ( https://www.foxnews.com/world/zelens...-official-says)

Fuck me, the US really is repositioning itself isn't it

I wonder what's next? Actually providing military assistance to Russia?

Yeah, probably...

[Gabriel]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...bing_reg_first

Jezus fuck, the telegraph aint wrong here...

It's kinda hard to put into words how I feel about this without getting perma'd.

[Gorsameth]

Fuck me, the US really is repositioning itself isn't it

I wonder what's next? Actually providing military assistance to Russia?

I mean, I would expect the military to shut that down but the odds of Trump proposing it if the EU continues to support Ukraine and Russia starts losing more seriously is probably pretty high.

[Iphie]

I mean, I would expect the military to shut that down but the odds of Trump proposing it if the EU continues to support Ukraine and Russia starts losing more seriously is probably pretty high.

Two words: Pete Hegseth.

That sack of **** is not very pro-Ukraine and he's the boss of the US military.

[Wilian]

According to me or according to Russia? My opinion is irrelevant. According to Russia:

1. Russian Security Concerns: Russia has long expressed concerns about NATO’s expansion eastward, seeing it as a direct threat to its security. Ukraine's increasing ties with the West, particularly its aspirations to join NATO, were viewed as a red line by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

2. Historical and Cultural Factors: Russia has deep historical and cultural ties to Ukraine, viewing it as a key part of its historical and cultural sphere. Putin has often emphasized that Ukraine and Russia share a common history, and he has questioned Ukraine's legitimacy as an independent state, referring to it as part of Russia's "greater" identity.

3. Geopolitical Ambitions: Putin's broader goal appears to be to reassert Russia's influence over its neighboring states, particularly those that were once part of the Soviet Union. The invasion of Ukraine can be seen as part of a larger effort to prevent Ukraine from aligning with Western institutions and maintain Russian dominance in the region.

4. Ukraine's Pro-Western Shift: Ukraine’s shift toward the European Union and NATO, particularly after the 2014 Euromaidan protests and the removal of pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych, further strained relations between the two countries. Russia perceived this as a loss of influence and a shift away from its sphere of influence.

5. The 2014 Crimea Annexation and Donbas Conflict: In 2014, Russia annexed Crimea and supported separatist movements in Eastern Ukraine (Donbas region), creating an ongoing conflict. The 2022 invasion can be seen as an escalation of these previous actions, with Russia seeking to consolidate control over territories in Ukraine.

6. Putin’s Personal Ambitions: Putin's personal ambitions and desire to maintain his grip on power played a role. Some analysts suggest that he used the invasion to rally domestic support and divert attention from internal issues, such as economic problems and political dissent.

Many western political analysts have expressed their concerns about installing so many NATO bases near Russia long before any escalation. Russia felt under threat and took the opportunity to claim some Ukrainian land, especially after being provided a casus bell, in their eyes at least, with the Maidan protests.

No, Russia just wants their colony back in imperial war. That what you wrote is just sheep talk to confuse and distract and sell their fascist expansionism to home front.

[Iphie]

No, Russia just wants their colony back in imperial war.

Given the details of the deal trump proposed they may have to take that up with the US...

[Wilian]

I think that NATO fucked up in this case, because they could have anticipated it. They knew full well that Russia could find a reason to invade, there were many geopolitical analysts predicting this. Instead of going for the safe option by upholding the status quo, no, they decided to make Ukraine a geopolitical hot zone. Ukraine was not in the EU, not in NATO, and that gave Putin all the ammunition he needed.

Is Russia the absolute asshole in this case? Obviously. Could NATO have prevented this entire war? Absolutely. Who suffers the most from this? Ukrainians.

The only way NATO fucked up was by not immediatly calling Putin's bluff when he started massing forces for second invasion and calling that if one inch of Ukrainian land is occupied NATO air force will decimate every single orc running amok. Any other claim is sheepish Ruzzian bullshit.