Russian invasion of Ukraine

[PhaelixWW]

Maybe we should find an alternative security guarantee for Ukraine anyway. Maybe France could do a defense agreement and store some nukes there.

Why reinvent the wheel?

[Nymrohd]

Why reinvent the wheel?

Cause a spoke just broke away

[PhaelixWW]

Cause a spoke just broke away

NATO hardly requires the US to be successful.

[KrayZ33]

Anecdotal but I haven't seen a single Pro Russia/Dictated Peace demonstration in Germany that had more than maybe 20 people.

On top of that, they are (were) pretty much all organized by agents, such as Elena Kolbasnikova, who escaped into Russia (and called it a "victory") and is now no longer allowed to enter Germany for the next 20 years or so.
There is basically no relevant amount of non-russian pro-russians in Germany.
I'd argue even most of the AfD base doesn't like Russia, most of them just want cheap gas again to gas migrants.. - I mean to heat their homes , or something like that

[Doomcookie]

I'm pretty sure that the re-elected dems in 5 years will attempt a round 2 with Russia especially if the Greenland/Canada/Panama plan fails now, the USA see Russia as a big rival in natural resource dominance and they are committed to win, they just take a break now, reorganize and they will attack later. Route and everyone else is spamming that Russia will be a threat in 5 years, in fact it is THEM who will again provoke it hard in 5 years.

What surprise me is that Germany is not attempting to fix their relation with Russia, it seems that Germany wants Ukraine to win in the end or maybe they wait for the new cancellor to change that?

Stop blaming the wrong people for Russia wanting to murder children.

[Nymrohd]

NATO hardly requires the US to be successful.

The US is willing to fight a war. Who is willing to fight in Europe?

[diller]

The US is willing to fight a war. Who is willing to fight in Europe?

If it's a member of NATO I would say everyone, but there hasn't even been any cases.

[PhaelixWW]

The US is willing to fight a war. Who is willing to fight in Europe?

Just a second ago you were putting France forward by themselves, so...

I mean, be consistent.

[Nymrohd]

Just a second ago you were putting France forward by themselves, so...

I mean, be consistent.

I am honestly unsure. I'd like to think people would but I am just not at all certain.
And I suggested they just store some nukes in Ukraine, not that they send their army.

[PhaelixWW]

I am honestly unsure. I'd like to think people would but I am just not at all certain.

Well, unless someone comes along and shows us a better option, NATO is the best choice for a shared defense of Europe, with or without US support.

[alach]

Many countries in Europe have their own individual defense pacts and alliances outside of just NATO. Like France and Germany, the UK and Canada, and so on. The US itself has military alliances with most European countries on an individual basis as well. Not sure how trump would wiggle out of all that. Probably just sign his name with a sharpie and proclaim loudly.
The EU also has security and defense partnerships with South Korea and Japan and a few more countries that were part of new alliance initiative after trump #1 and the invasion of Crimea.

[Mazza]

Maybe we should find an alternative security guarantee for Ukraine anyway. Maybe France could do a defense agreement and store some nukes there.

I don't think Ukraine is intrested in having it's nuclear capabilities covered by another nation ever again. They will build their own nukes, having both the knowledge and materials to do so.

[Edge-]

The US is willing to fight a war. Who is willing to fight in Europe?

Is this where we drop the reminder that the US is the only NATO ally that's actually called upon others to support it in wartime, and our NATO allies answered.

[Santti]

I don't think Ukraine is intrested in having it's nuclear capabilities covered by another nation ever again. They will build their own nukes, having both the knowledge and materials to do so.

I'm not sure that'd be very wise, even if they had the needed knowledge and materials for it. Not only are they really expensive, but the news of such a thing happening would make Russian aggression much easier to sell back at home, something that they can't keep up drumming forever (they are already using fucking North Koreans). International support for Ukraine would also diminish for sure.

I feel going nuclear is a trap. Some sort of defense pact would be far more advantageous, rather than the unreliability of trying to get a nuclear program going to a point it's actually a proper deterrent.

[Gorsameth]

If it's a member of NATO I would say everyone, but there hasn't even been any cases.

the US is the only nation to ever invoke article 5, following 9/11 and Europe followed the US into Afghanistan.

[Specialka]

Is this where we drop the reminder that the US is the only NATO ally that's actually called upon others to support it in wartime, and our NATO allies answered.

They are also the biggest suppliers of budget, equipments and personal to NATO while being basically in control of it.

[NED funded]

NATO hardly requires the US to be successful.

This is cope. The US has centralized all of the expertise and resources that make NATO work. The only two members that are sort of equal are France and the UK. A pattern you can see repeated in how aid has been given to Ukraine. The French Foreign Legion is a really good idea, a bit crude but it works for France.

[Draco-Onis]

This is cope. The US has centralized all of the expertise and resources that make NATO work. The only two members that are sort of equal are France and the UK. A pattern you can see repeated in how aid has been given to Ukraine. The French Foreign Legion is a really good idea, a bit crude but it works for France.

I think we are going to see that happen regardless because of Trump, the US clearly cannot be relied on for European security. It will take decades but the EU will completely decouple from the US for security. I doubt the US bases will close but a multi lateral world is what we are heading towards. The reason NATO is so heavily reliants on the US is because it pushes US interests all over the world now that we are out the benefits will go along with it.

[Nymrohd]

This is cope. The US has centralized all of the expertise and resources that make NATO work. The only two members that are sort of equal are France and the UK. A pattern you can see repeated in how aid has been given to Ukraine. The French Foreign Legion is a really good idea, a bit crude but it works for France.

Yeah France is the only other option I see.

[alach]

Man, cutting off USAID, reducing global soft power, gutting the CIA, an antagonizing the most the world.
I sadly forsee another 911 type attack in America's future.
Those departments and agencies were put in place to prevent that.