Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Nymrohd]

The bunch of CFA countries asking telling France's military to leave says otherwise...

Grats ya'll get to touch the hot stove too.

My country can't save anyone anyway. We've been chronically fucked since day 1. Just hoping there might be a scenario where somehow Ukraine can get out of this without losing everything cause with Trump's plan, they definitely would be getting invaded again in a few years.

[Mayhem]

They are also the biggest suppliers of budget, equipments and personal to NATO while being basically in control of it.

Is it that you just want to be wrong on everything all the time or do you have an aversion to looking things up before writing about something you clearly know nothing about?

NATO headquarters is in Brussels. Secretary-General currently is Mark Rutte former Prime Minister from the Netherlands.

Roughly 4,000 people work at NATO Headquarters on a full-time basis. Of these, some 2,000 are members of national delegations and supporting staff members of national military representatives to NATO. About 300 people work at the missions of NATO's partners countries. Some 1,000 are civilian members of the International Staff or NATO agencies located within the Headquarters and about 500 are members of the International Military Staff, which also includes civilians.

Germany matches the US direct funding of NATO. 15.8813% from the US and 15.8813% from Germany, then come the United Kingdom providing 10.9626% and France providing 10.1940%

[Specialka]

Is it that you just want to be wrong on everything all the time or do you have an aversion to looking things up before writing about something you clearly know nothing about?

NATO headquarters is in Brussels. Secretary-General currently is Mark Rutte former Prime Minister from the Netherlands.

Roughly 4,000 people work at NATO Headquarters on a full-time basis. Of these, some 2,000 are members of national delegations and supporting staff members of national military representatives to NATO. About 300 people work at the missions of NATO's partners countries. Some 1,000 are civilian members of the International Staff or NATO agencies located within the Headquarters and about 500 are members of the International Military Staff, which also includes civilians.

Germany matches the US direct funding of NATO. 15.8813% from the US and 15.8813% from Germany, then come the United Kingdom providing 10.9626% and France providing 10.1940%

Sure kiddo. So they are the biggest budget provider as you said. And what matters in NATO is the operational command which is led by the US.

[SAY HER NAME]

I think we are going to see that happen regardless because of Trump, the US clearly cannot be relied on for European security. It will take decades but the EU will completely decouple from the US for security. I doubt the US bases will close but a multi lateral world is what we are heading towards. The reason NATO is so heavily reliants on the US is because it pushes US interests all over the world now that we are out the benefits will go along with it.

The EU literally cannot decouple from the US. It literally defanged itself decades ago and decided to have a comfy welfare state and regulations. Even now support for Ukraine is underpinned by further US support. Poland is the largest supporter in terms of GDP % but that is underpinned by US guarantees and loans to replace all of the old soviet equipment with new NATO aligned equipment

Europe lies defeated and unwilling to change its destiny to remain under the US wing.

[Timester]

Once again, here we are talking about budgets of NATO when Russia can't even break a stalemate and are using donkeys and north koreans as logistics on a three years war against Ukraine, a nation that had no armed forces three years ago.

When it's time to have a serious talk about boogiemen and paper tigers? Do we really need to relearn 1980s fall of Soviet Union yet again?

[alach]

The EU literally cannot decouple from the US. It literally defanged itself decades ago and decided to have a comfy welfare state and regulations. Even now support for Ukraine is underpinned by further US support. Poland is the largest supporter in terms of GDP % but that is underpinned by US guarantees and loans to replace all of the old soviet equipment with new NATO aligned equipment

Europe lies defeated and unwilling to change its destiny to remain under the US wing.

Japan was in the same boat before trumps first term. Because he's a dick, not because he negotiated well, they are quickly rebuilding their military. Same could happen elsewhere.
Reminder, that western Europe got off russian gas in just a few short years. Something many said would take a decade at least before russias invasion. If the willpower is there, it's possible.

[Draco-Onis]

The EU literally cannot decouple from the US. It literally defanged itself decades ago and decided to have a comfy welfare state and regulations. Even now support for Ukraine is underpinned by further US support. Poland is the largest supporter in terms of GDP % but that is underpinned by US guarantees and loans to replace all of the old soviet equipment with new NATO aligned equipment

Europe lies defeated and unwilling to change its destiny to remain under the US wing.

Europe has no choice and the decoupling has already occurred thanks to Trump, it will not happen overnight but decades with a few countries as the foundation. However once the process is started in earnest, it cannot be reversed since if the US can elect Donald Trump twice there's no reason why another version of him will not take power.

The future has yet to be written but what's the alternative? the US isn't going to be there to protect them anymore.

[LeGin v4]

Europe lies defeated and unwilling to change its destiny to remain under the US wing.

Great bait.

Completely inaccurate given the current situation, but carry on.

[Edge-]

Once again, here we are talking about budgets of NATO when Russia can't even break a stalemate and are using donkeys and north koreans as logistics on a three years war against Ukraine, a nation that had no armed forces three years ago.

When it's time to have a serious talk about boogiemen and paper tigers? Do we really need to relearn 1980s fall of Soviet Union yet again?

Didn't they just lose another boat or two to a nation without a navy, too?

[Timester]

Didn't they just lose another boat or two to a nation without a navy, too?

Russia's navy wasn't their strenght in the first place, so losing another boat or two doesn't really matter that much.

Their "praised jewel of the crown" was their mechanized force. Three years after, they only have left Noks and donkies.

[SAY HER NAME]

Japan was in the same boat before trumps first term. Because he's a dick, not because he negotiated well, they are quickly rebuilding their military. Same could happen elsewhere.
Reminder, that western Europe got off russian gas in just a few short years. Something many said would take a decade at least before russias invasion. If the willpower is there, it's possible.

The only reason Europe got itself into Russian gas is bc it spent years fighting the US to build pipelines that directly connected Russian gas to central european countries XD

And gas is a commodity, that can be shipped and bought very easily as there are multiple producers that provide a direct replacement of what is essentially the same product. In this case the US was ready and willing to replace Russian gas (running again into the same problem of US dependency) alongside nations like QATAR. Replacing Russian gas is not a big deal as there are multiple producers . If Europe is serious about having a military it needs to build a weapons manufacturing base first which takes years to do. Countries that have one have spent decades building their industrial base. When Ukraine needed shells, those shells didnt come from Europe, they came from countries like South Korea and the US that have prioritized industries for stuff like that.

I guess it can be done. Like nothing is impossible in this life but it would need a lot of political will and the path of least resistance is very tempting.

[Timester]

The only reason Europe got itself into Russian gas is bc it spent years fighting the US to build pipelines that directly connected Russian gas to central european countries XD

Lets Angela Merkel rest in peace in her exile, thanks, we don't need to wake up her again.

[Mayhem]

Sure kiddo. So they are the biggest budget provider as you said. And what matters in NATO is the operational command which is led by the US.

Are you in a fight with words? So Germany is the biggest budget provider. Makes no sense right? They can't both be the biggest budget provider. Also, they obviously aren't in command and don't provide the most personnel. So what's your point? That the US has the largest military? Yeah, thanks buddy that's news to everyone, glad you mentioned it. Well done and it has nothing to do with NATO.

The US could leave NATO, NATO would lose 15% of its budget, a few hundred people working for/with them, and then renegotiate all their bases in all the NATO countries that currently house them. So about 40 military installations in Germany alone.

That sounds feasible and very sane.

- - - Updated - - -

The only reason Europe got itself into Russian gas is bc it spent years fighting the US to build pipelines that directly connected Russian gas to central european countries XD

And gas is a commodity, that can be shipped and bought very easily as there are multiple producers that provide a direct replacement of what is essentially the same product. In this case the US was ready and willing to replace Russian gas (running again into the same problem of US dependency) alongside nations like QATAR. Replacing Russian gas is not a big deal as there are multiple producers . If Europe is serious about having a military it needs to build a weapons manufacturing base first which takes years to do. Countries that have one have spent decades building their industrial base. When Ukraine needed shells, those shells didnt come from Europe, they came from countries like South Korea and the US that have prioritized industries for stuff like that.

I guess it can be done. Like nothing is impossible in this life but it would need a lot of political will and the path of least resistance is very tempting.

Are you pretending there aren't arms producers in Europe that probably cream themselves over the idea of ramping up production or don't you know that there are arms producers in Europe?

[alach]

Zelensky has spent 4 years traveling working deals and making contracts. Poland and Ukraine is where Europe's military begins.


https://kyivindependent.com/ukraines...y-kicking-off/

[LeGin v4]

Are you pretending there aren't arms producers in Europe that probably cream themselves over the idea of ramping up production or don't you know that there are arms producers in Europe?

Facts aren't important to NED, that's been evident for a long time.

[Nymrohd]

Are you pretending there aren't arms producers in Europe that probably cream themselves over the idea of ramping up production or don't you know that there are arms producers in Europe?

Can they? Do they have the resources (human resources, capital, supply chains) to do this in short order? I hope they do.

[Timester]

Zelensky has spent 4 years traveling working deals and making contracts. Poland and Ukraine is where Europe's military begins.


https://kyivindependent.com/ukraines...y-kicking-off/

Not only that, the best drone tech now is Ukrainian. Ukraine can easily become Europe's military Silicon Valley.

Can they? Do they have the resources (human resources, capital, supply chains) to do this in short order? I hope they do.

Short order? To fight whom? Aliens?

While Russia is using donkey and norks, Ukrainians are using better and better drones.

[LeGin v4]

Can they? Do they have the resources (human resources, capital, supply chains) to do this in short order? I hope they do.

*Makes note to invest in*: BAE Systems, MBDA UK, Thales UK, Rheinmetall, Diehl Defence, Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, Nexter, MBDA, Saab AB, Kongsberg, Baykar, Leonardo S.p.A., PGZ, Excalibur Army

Looking forward to seeing Lockheed Martin stocks plummet

Or do you think they'll be too focused on producing armaments to facilitate the invasion of Canada, Greenland, Gaza etc.

We're all going to transition to war economies. Great stuff!

[Poopymonster]

*Makes note to invest in*: BAE Systems, MBDA UK, Thales UK, Rheinmetall, Diehl Defence, Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, Nexter, MBDA, Saab AB, Kongsberg, Baykar, Leonardo S.p.A., PGZ, Excalibur Army

Looking forward to seeing Lockheed Martin stocks plummet

Or do you think they'll be too focused on producing armaments to facilitate the invasion of Canada, Greenland, Gaza etc.

We're all going to transition to war economies. Great stuff!

Safest investments stateside is still child sized coffins. Hands down.

[Wilian]

Are you pretending there aren't arms producers in Europe that probably cream themselves over the idea of ramping up production or don't you know that there are arms producers in Europe?

There are. Inaction and governmental inability has led to the fact that the industry we have is insufficient. There is only few countries, such as Poland and Finland that has seriously upped their production, or rather has funded and working on expanding the industry, because scaling up takes years. Europe is very restricted with weapons and ammunition production. Hell, the whole continent has had only one TNT plant up until now as Finland announced we will build the second of entire continent TNT producing plant. Pretty important ingredient. And building that takes years.

Reading your posts, you seem to have a bit of a rosy view on how things stand in Europe. You look at us with lenses what we could do with our resources if we were at our best. Yes, that's realistic in a sense that we have the material and economic potency. You seem to often overlook the inaction and fragmentation of policy and politics across our continent that hamper all those ideal ends.