Russian invasion of Ukraine

[LeGin v4]

Can they? Do they have the resources (human resources, capital, supply chains) to do this in short order? I hope they do.

*Makes note to invest in*: BAE Systems, MBDA UK, Thales UK, Rheinmetall, Diehl Defence, Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, Nexter, MBDA, Saab AB, Kongsberg, Baykar, Leonardo S.p.A., PGZ, Excalibur Army

Looking forward to seeing Lockheed Martin stocks plummet

Or do you think they'll be too focused on producing armaments to facilitate the invasion of Canada, Greenland, Gaza etc.

We're all going to transition to war economies. Great stuff!

[Poopymonster]

*Makes note to invest in*: BAE Systems, MBDA UK, Thales UK, Rheinmetall, Diehl Defence, Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, Nexter, MBDA, Saab AB, Kongsberg, Baykar, Leonardo S.p.A., PGZ, Excalibur Army

Looking forward to seeing Lockheed Martin stocks plummet

Or do you think they'll be too focused on producing armaments to facilitate the invasion of Canada, Greenland, Gaza etc.

We're all going to transition to war economies. Great stuff!

Safest investments stateside is still child sized coffins. Hands down.

[Wilian]

Are you pretending there aren't arms producers in Europe that probably cream themselves over the idea of ramping up production or don't you know that there are arms producers in Europe?

There are. Inaction and governmental inability has led to the fact that the industry we have is insufficient. There is only few countries, such as Poland and Finland that has seriously upped their production, or rather has funded and working on expanding the industry, because scaling up takes years. Europe is very restricted with weapons and ammunition production. Hell, the whole continent has had only one TNT plant up until now as Finland announced we will build the second of entire continent TNT producing plant. Pretty important ingredient. And building that takes years.

Reading your posts, you seem to have a bit of a rosy view on how things stand in Europe. You look at us with lenses what we could do with our resources if we were at our best. Yes, that's realistic in a sense that we have the material and economic potency. You seem to often overlook the inaction and fragmentation of policy and politics across our continent that hamper all those ideal ends.

[Mayhem]

There are. Inaction and governmental inability has led to the fact that the industry we have is insufficient. There is only few countries, such as Poland and Finland that has seriously upped their production, or rather has funded and working on expanding the industry, because scaling up takes years. Europe is very restricted with weapons and ammunition production. Hell, the whole continent has had only one TNT plant up until now as Finland announced we will build the second of entire continent TNT producing plant. Pretty important ingredient. And building that takes years.

Reading your posts, you seem to have a bit of a rosy view on how things stand in Europe. You look at us in lenses what we could do with our resources if we were at our best. Yes, that's realistic in a sense that we have the material and economic potency. You seem to often overlook the inaction and fragmentation of policy and politics across our continent that hamper all those ideal ends.

Actually, I just looked at arms sales in 2023 and the EU makes up 25% of arms sales worldwide so I figured there are arms producers in Europe that are also able to produce arms.

[Nymrohd]

Here is the thing. We can buy US arms just fine. They love to sell them. They just struggle with actually delivering them in a reasonable timeframe. My understanding is that procurement is just slow whether it is local or imported. And while I cannot tell about arms specifically, I know that an industrial complex takes a long time to build (unless you make massive sacrifices to expedite things).

[Elenos]

Actually, I just looked at arms sales in 2023 and the EU makes up 25% of arms sales worldwide so I figured there are arms producers in Europe that are also able to produce arms.

Problem is that it's one thing to have enough industry for a peace time military, so a few dozen tanks, hundreds of APCs, IFVs and a few dozen planes and helicopters we produce in Europe are fine for that.

It's a very different affair when each side in Ukraine is losing hundreds of tanks and thousands of APCs/IFVs yearly.

Are you pretending there aren't arms producers in Europe that probably cream themselves over the idea of ramping up production or don't you know that there are arms producers in Europe?

3 years after the war started what the hell are they doing exactly....oh right.

Now sure if EU governments wanted to actually do it it would be a different affair.

But EU governments are like forums: Lots of chest pounding, fancy speeches, and actual squat for action.

[LeGin v4]

But EU governments are like forums: Lots of chest pounding, fancy speeches, and actual squat for action.

Why? Blanket statement suggesting *all* posters on this forum haven't hosted two Ukrainian refugees for a year? Spent days doing paperwork. Cooked. Consoled. Supported. I'm literally in the middle of trying to source a replacement fucking Bosch battery for the ebike she's dependent on.

Of course, now I'll get accused of virtue signalling / appeals to authority.

You may be guilty of inaction, doesn't mean the rest of us are.

[Lahis]

Once again, here we are talking about budgets of NATO when Russia can't even break a stalemate and are using donkeys and north koreans as logistics on a three years war against Ukraine, a nation that had no armed forces three years ago.

When it's time to have a serious talk about boogiemen and paper tigers? Do we really need to relearn 1980s fall of Soviet Union yet again?

How effective will Russia be with support from USA?

[Timester]

How effective will Russia be with support from USA?

None, because this administration is "America First". Trump doesn't care about the war, he is just speeding running a Nobel Prize.

[Mayhem]

But EU governments are like forums: Lots of chest pounding, fancy speeches, and actual squat for action.

Projection much? In my spare time, I am active in collecting help (mostly goods) for people in need.

[Lahis]

None, because this administration is "America First". Trump doesn't care about the war, he is just speeding running a Nobel Prize.

He doesn't care about the war, but he wants to plunder Ukraine's minerals.


When Ukraine doesn't accept his "deals", he is left with violence as the option. Sending in "peacekeepers" to "end the war" would be fine excuse.

[DarkTZeratul]

He doesn't care about the war, but he wants to plunder Ukraine's minerals.

When Ukraine doesn't accept his "deals", he is left with violence as the option. Sending in "peacekeepers" to "end the war" would be fine excuse.

Actually sending troops to Ukraine feels like a surefire way to get even the Republicans in Congress to turn against him.

[Nymrohd]

None, because this administration is "America First". Trump doesn't care about the war, he is just speeding running a Nobel Prize.

Trump has leaked intelligence to Russia before though.

[Draco-Onis]

Trump has leaked intelligence to Russia before though.

America first is in quotes because in reality it's Trump first, he doesn't give a single flying fuck about America.

[Iphie]

Well a merry fuck you too backstabber.

Trump blames Ukraine for the War.

BBC

[Lahis]

Actually sending troops to Ukraine feels like a surefire way to get even the Republicans in Congress to turn against him.

Does he need the Congress though? He just declared himself as The Law. Sure any worries about the Congress will be soon removed.

[OwenBurton]

"You should have never started it,” Trump said of Ukraine while criticizing President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who had expressed concern that his country was not included in talks between the U.S. and Russia in Saudi Arabia.

"I think I have the power to end this war, and I think it's going very well. But today I heard, 'Oh, well, we weren't invited.' Well, you've been there for three years," Trump told reporters at his Mar-a-Lago resort. "You should have never started it. You could have made a deal."

Trump says Ukraine 'should have never started it' in comments about war with Russia

It is one thing to try to tentatively pursue and attempt diplomacy, but it is quite another to blatantly apportion most of the blame on the side under war.

International geopolitics is not quite like a bloated corporation in New York - it is much less trickle-down, much more nuanced and complicated, and it is not so much about the hierarchy of a CEO and his Board telling others beneath them what to do, as it is about trying to negotiate as equals - on the basic principle that every state is equal and no one's sovereign rights can or should be violated.

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump suggested in an interview that aired Thursday night that Ukraine should not have fought when Russia invaded it.

"Zelenskyy was fighting a much bigger entity, much bigger, much more powerful," Trump told Fox News' Sean Hannity. "He shouldn’t have done that, because we could have made a deal." (January 23, 2025)

Trump suggests Ukraine shouldn't have fought back against Russia

The problem is with this logic is that it is inconsistent, if Israel is attacked by Iran, or if Taiwan by China, or Colombia by Venezuela, would he not support them fighting back also? Why then is Ukraine the sole exception in such an ethos? You cannot apply such a standard to one situation/conflict, and not also apply it to the others by that same token.

[Edge-]

Trump says Ukraine 'should have never started it' in comments about war with Russia

It is one thing to try to tentatively pursue and attempt diplomacy, but it is quite another to blatantly apportion most of the blame on the side under war.

International geopolitics is not quite like a bloated corporation in New York - it is much less trickle-down, much more nuanced and complicated, and it is not so much about the hierarchy of a CEO and his Board telling others beneath them what to do, as it is about trying to negotiate as equals - on the basic principle that every state is equal and no one's sovereign rights can or should be violated.

Donald is a complete idiot who lives in a fictional reality, surrounded by people too terrified to ever tell him the truth.

[Lahis]

Donald is a complete idiot who lives in a fictional reality, surrounded by people too terrified to ever tell him the truth.

Yet he runs the country with ever more tyrannical grip each day.

[PhaelixWW]

This is cope.

No.

Is NATO more effective with the US? Obviously. But if Ukraine can stand up to Russia as well as they have, then NATO doesn't need the US to be effective.