Russian invasion of Ukraine

[gondrin]

So, Russia is about to declare itself the winner on Feb 24. Along with them beating NATO. Still don't know how that is a thing. I wonder if Ukraine got the memo. Probably not seeing as they have been excluded from the actual talks.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...12146a85&ei=32

Russia prepares to announce its "victory" over Ukraine and NATO on 24 February, Ukrainian intelligence reports

The Russians are preparing to announce an alleged victory in the war against Ukraine and NATO on the three-year anniversary of their full-scale invasion of Ukraine on 24 February, and are planning a large-scale propaganda disinformation campaign.

Quote: "Russia is preparing to declare an alleged ‘victory’ in the war against Ukraine by the specific date – 24 February 2025, the third anniversary of the beginning of the full-scale war. Moreover, these plans may also include a ‘Russian victory over NATO’."

Details: The Russians have consistently claimed that they are fighting the Alliance in Ukraine.

Ukrainian intelligence said that the Kremlin had instructed to intensify attempts to sow disillusionment among Ukrainians, destabilise the situation in the country, and discredit Ukraine in the eyes of partners who provide important military assistance.

Statements such as "The West betrayed Ukraine", "Neither Moscow nor Washington care about the opinions of Europeans and Ukrainians", "The US and Russia made a deal behind Ukraine’s back", "The Ukrainian government is illegitimate", "The Ukrainian army is losing on the battlefield" and "Corrupt Ukrainian officials are stealing billions of dollars of US aid" will be the most widespread narratives in the near future.

The Kremlin has ordered its intelligence services to use the US-Russia talks in Saudi Arabia on 18 February for information attacks. They will try to manipulate these events to influence public opinion.

I mean, if this is like his other "I won" speeches, what should follow is a bunch of tanks stuck in the mud and a lot of dead soldiers because they can't fight for shit.

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Graham's hate of Russia is pretty equivalent to Trump making fun of Cruz's wife, the man has made his hate of Putin his entire being yet we are about to see him bend the knee to Putin because he has no balls.

Well, Graham has always had a humiliation kink. I figure Trump might as well as abuse the hell out of it for the next 4 years. He won't have McConnell to try and push around.

[Kaleredar]

So, Russia is about to declare itself the winner on Feb 24. Along with them beating NATO. Still don't know how that is a thing. I wonder if Ukraine got the memo. Probably not seeing as they have been excluded from the actual talks.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...12146a85&ei=32



I mean, if this is like his other "I won" speeches, what should follow is a bunch of tanks stuck in the mud and a lot of dead soldiers because they can't fight for shit.

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Well, Graham has always had a humiliation kink. I figure Trump might as well as abuse the hell out of it for the next 4 years. He won't have McConnell to try and push around.

Russia declaring victory only for Ukraine to keep fighting them while holding Russian lands is sure going to seem odd.

“If I repeat the same lie enough it becomes the truth, and I say that I beat you” doesn’t work quite as well when the other guy has a gun pointed at your head.

[Belize]

So, Russia is about to declare itself the winner on Feb 24. Along with them beating NATO. Still don't know how that is a thing. I wonder if Ukraine got the memo. Probably not seeing as they have been excluded from the actual talks.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...12146a85&ei=32



I mean, if this is like his other "I won" speeches, what should follow is a bunch of tanks stuck in the mud and a lot of dead soldiers because they can't fight for shit.

What's "Mission Accomplished" in Russian? Can we get that printed on a big banner that they can hang up on the bridge of a ship?

[gondrin]

What's "Mission Accomplished" in Russian? Can we get that printed on a big banner that they can hang up on the bridge of a ship?

Why a ship? Might as well as hang it in front of the White House. Might as well as be on the nose about everything.

[Flarelaine]

What's "Mission Accomplished" in Russian? Can we get that printed on a big banner that they can hang up on the bridge of a ship?

That would require a Russian capital ship still afloat.

[Belize]

That would require a Russian capital ship still afloat.

Surely we can dredge up a 'submarine' for an hour or so

[diller]

Trump is a good negotiator

Being a bully isn't the same as being a good negotiator.

[gondrin]

Trump is a good negotiator

And I am the new future Queen of England.

[Kaleredar]

Being a bully isn't the same as being a good negotiator.

And I am the new future Queen of England.

Remember the old adage about trump:

“He is a weak man’s idea of a strong man, a poor man’s idea of a rich man, and an idiot’s idea of a genius.”

Where does that put you on the spectrum, @Vampiregenesis ?

[Doomcookie]

So far all of my predictions have been correct, I had the same reactions on them too. Everyone here was laughing when I was telling them what Trump will do.

I don't know what the US deep state expected from Biden politics with Russia but Trump is 100% a continuation of the strategy even if that wasn't their plan A.

Ok, you can forget about Trump, Biden was barely able to walk and talk and are you telling me that this guy was taking decisions on his own?

The issue is not that you said Trump was a lying Nazi. The issue was that you said you liked it about him.

There's also the fact that you keep lying about who started the war.

The "deep state" nonsense is a Qanon lie.

[NED funded]

I wonder if Trump is lashing out against Zelensky bc he knows his bargaining power is very limited. US influence in Ukraine lives and dies with military support. The reason Zelensky and generals complied with Biden was bc he was providing them with weapons, ammo and access to US systems. If Trump cuts that and doesnt provide a satisfactory deal to Ukraine, they dont have a reason to play ball. They can just say "Thanks for all the help but we are taking it from here". Will they loose their war? Who knows but if the people are willing to fight an existential war against their country I dont see why they wouldnt just fight to the last man

[LeGin v4]

Not sure what to discuss, that Nato is just a defensive alliance? who can trust the west after Libya, Iraq, Serbia, Afghanistan, Syria? Nato is NOT a defensive alliance, it's an organization promoting west dominance through military action.

What even is this shit?

Like, Iraq - that wasn't even a NATO operation. It was a US-led alliance. NATO had nothing to do with it. Germany and France opposed it.

Either you don't understand or you're spreading disinformation. Which is it?

If you want to criticise e.g., American & British foreign policy, do so. But stop lying about NATO.

[Blur4stuff]

We've yet to see how this will play out, but Russia isn't winning anything. Even if the war stops they are in deep shit for generations to come. Russia was already in decline before the war and the damage they've sustained to their infrastructure, population, and economy has only made it worse. On top of that the world now knows with certainty how awful the Russian military is. Before the war most people just assumed they were the #2 or #3 military in the world. They were actually not even in the top 20 and now they're significantly worse.

People joke about the US empire now being in decline because of Trump and his enablers. Maybe they're right. But, there absolutely is a nation in decline with Russia and we've been watching it happen for decades. It's only going to accelerate. Obviously, this doesn't mean they can't still kill people. Russia will likely become more desperate and dangerous as they wither. Europe better take this seriously, because we know the US isn't going to for at least a few years.

[LeGin v4]

I see deleted posts...

Someone want to disagree with the above?

I'm objecting to inaccuracies in the poster's blanket statement. The sort of disinformation that has fuelled this current crisis and given supposed credibility to Putin's psychopathic, warmongering bullshit, which is now being swallowed up by MAGAs

Libya - NATO acted on a UNSCR to protect civilians
Iraq - wasn't fucking NATO
Serbia - NATO's involvement was legally-questionable, but supposedly based on humanitarian, not expansionist goals of ensuring the Serbs didn't genocide their neighbours
Afghanistan - this is the only one I agree with. Should have left it solely to the Americans. Complete fucking waste of time.
Syria - NATO acted on a UNSCR to stop Assad from massacring civilians with chemical weapons

Should be fucking clear the problem, here, isn't NATO. Vatniks may like to say so, but it doesn't mean it's true

[Gorsameth]

I wonder if Trump is lashing out against Zelensky bc he knows his bargaining power is very limited. US influence in Ukraine lives and dies with military support. The reason Zelensky and generals complied with Biden was bc he was providing them with weapons, ammo and access to US systems. If Trump cuts that and doesnt provide a satisfactory deal to Ukraine, they dont have a reason to play ball. They can just say "Thanks for all the help but we are taking it from here". Will they loose their war? Who knows but if the people are willing to fight an existential war against their country I dont see why they wouldnt just fight to the last man

Trump is lashing out because his handler has instructed him that he has to, there is no deeper meaning. Putin told him to get out so he is creating the excuse to get the US out when Ukraine refuses the upcoming surrender treaty.

I see deleted posts...

Someone want to disagree with the above?

I'm objecting to inaccuracies in the poster's blanket statement. The sort of disinformation that has fuelled this current crisis and given supposed credibility to Putin's psychopathic, warmongering bullshit, which is now being swallowed up by MAGAs

Libya - NATO acted on a UNSCR to protect civilians
Iraq - wasn't fucking NATO
Serbia - NATO's involvement was legally-questionable, but supposedly based on humanitarian, not expansionist goals of ensuring the Serbs didn't genocide their neighbours
Afghanistan - this is the only one I agree with. Should have left it solely to the Americans. Complete fucking waste of time.
Syria - NATO acted on a UNSCR to stop Assad from massacring civilians with chemical weapons

Should be fucking clear the problem, here, isn't NATO. Vatniks may like to say so, but it doesn't mean it's true

Afghanistan was the only use of article 5 in the alliances history. The US called, its allies answered. One can argue if they should have but then your basically arguing about whether the defensive alliance should exist at all. And Russia was still considered a threat at the time.

[Mafic]

I wonder if Trump is lashing out against Zelensky bc he knows his bargaining power is very limited. US influence in Ukraine lives and dies with military support. The reason Zelensky and generals complied with Biden was bc he was providing them with weapons, ammo and access to US systems. If Trump cuts that and doesnt provide a satisfactory deal to Ukraine, they dont have a reason to play ball. They can just say "Thanks for all the help but we are taking it from here". Will they loose their war? Who knows but if the people are willing to fight an existential war against their country I dont see why they wouldnt just fight to the last man

Trump does have bargaining power but the problem is that they want to negotiatea peace deal by throwing in access to mineral deposits. That is the sticking point which Ukraine feels is bad for them as they have to contend with Russia on their border.

The gamble the US is taking is that Ukraine sustains enough losses that they accept surrendering access to their mineral deposits. However, the Ukrainian army has abandoned NATO tactics and strategy and are doing better holding their own using Soviet doctrine . Even Russia has abandoned western styled concepts and are choosing a methodical approach themselves. The downside with all of this with both sides hunkering down is that it increases casaulties on both sides substantially.

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We've yet to see how this will play out, but Russia isn't winning anything. Even if the war stops they are in deep shit for generations to come. Russia was already in decline before the war and the damage they've sustained to their infrastructure, population, and economy has only made it worse. On top of that the world now knows with certainty how awful the Russian military is. Before the war most people just assumed they were the #2 or #3 military in the world. They were actually not even in the top 20 and now they're significantly worse.

People joke about the US empire now being in decline because of Trump and his enablers. Maybe they're right. But, there absolutely is a nation in decline with Russia and we've been watching it happen for decades. It's only going to accelerate. Obviously, this doesn't mean they can't still kill people. Russia will likely become more desperate and dangerous as they wither. Europe better take this seriously, because we know the US isn't going to for at least a few years.

Russia isn't in that bad of shape compared to Europe. Their population growth is also in better shape than most western countries. The problem with Russia is that they lack the ability to create growth and expansion along with modernizing as quickly as other nations have shown in a short time span. China for example will pass Russia a lot faster when it comes to expansion and growth in terms of modernity of tech and industry. India is in the same boat as well.

Russian military isn't as bad as western media is reporting as they are taking on Ukraine along with NATO troops. The Russian military has shown they still can really drag a fight out into a slug fest using artillery but they have no means to quickly end a war. They are still a top five military country not just because nukes, but because of hyper sonic missiles alone. But Russian training of individual soldiers is clearly not a priority for them and that might have to change as China made it a priority to train each solider more effectively since 2000.

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I see deleted posts...

Someone want to disagree with the above?

I'm objecting to inaccuracies in the poster's blanket statement. The sort of disinformation that has fuelled this current crisis and given supposed credibility to Putin's psychopathic, warmongering bullshit, which is now being swallowed up by MAGAs

Libya - NATO acted on a UNSCR to protect civilians
Iraq - wasn't fucking NATO
Serbia - NATO's involvement was legally-questionable, but supposedly based on humanitarian, not expansionist goals of ensuring the Serbs didn't genocide their neighbours
Afghanistan - this is the only one I agree with. Should have left it solely to the Americans. Complete fucking waste of time.
Syria - NATO acted on a UNSCR to stop Assad from massacring civilians with chemical weapons

Should be fucking clear the problem, here, isn't NATO. Vatniks may like to say so, but it doesn't mean it's true

NATO doesn't really need to exist if countries like Italy, Poland and Greece feel they have to pick up the slack because Germany the economic powerhouse of the Europe is so apathetic toward the concept of NATO.

So, the phobia of Germany becoming powerful again by increasing its military strength along with its economic power is a valid concern. But NATO can not exist without countries continuing to not particpate and put enough money into their own militaries and NATO. Also, the scope of NATO has always been about defense but nation building isn't part of the description so the adventures beyind that mission scope has created more problems than solved.

[NED funded]

Trump does have bargaining power but the problem is that they want to negotiatea peace deal by throwing in access to mineral deposits. That is the sticking point which Ukraine feels is bad for them as they have to contend with Russia on their border

Does he tho? The US "wins" the negotiations if they can stop the war and get Ukraine and Russia to stop fighting. If Ukraine decides they dont want to stop fighting then what can the US do besides not send support? Support Russia? I guess Trump can sink to those levels but if Ukraine wants to keep fighting its a matter of finding new patrons or simply fight with what they have. It wouldnt be the first time that people keep fighting despite significant differences in resources between parties.

The US has nothing to bargain if Ukraine wants to keep fighting despite not having US support

[Voidwielder]

If I were a the political and military leader of any of the AUKUS capitals, I'd be calling for secret, emergency meeting come Monday morning. There's no way US can be trusted to not withhold critical tech if shits hits the fan. And UK? Move away from Trident. Work with the frogs if you need.
And Europe really needs to get it's shit right when it comes to Arianespace.

And in case folks wonder - South Korea has impressive military industrial capacities and products. There's a reason why Poland doubled down on SK products.

[Deus Mortis]

https://united24media.com/latest-new...nvestment-6112
I really hope Kellogg can somehow persuade Trump, but I got the bad feeling he is just gonna get sidelined for not towing the line.

[Voidwielder]

https://united24media.com/latest-new...nvestment-6112
I really hope Kellogg can somehow persuade Trump, but I got the bad feeling he is just gonna get sidelined for not towing the line.

He was sidelined a long time when Trump brought in Witkoff.

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In case you wonder what effect shutting off Starlinks would have on Ukrainian military, here's a long thread going in to details. Hit that translate button.
https://x.com/Firsov_Donetsk/status/1892985434407326172