Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Voidism]

Yes. Yes, it is what it is - he had no power there and no business getting into this dumb argument in front of the media.

Zelensky was correct in 90% of what he said. Trump was correct in one thing he said - Zelensky has no leverage. That one correct statement means much more than 10 correct statements from Zelensky.

I think that Trump made a mistake there too, but I really expected Zelensky to not supply the ammo for that to happen - I really took him for much smarter than that.



Europe can't do shit - don't even think Europe can actually replace the void US will leave if it bails. It's really that simple.

Trump is correct in stating that Zelensky can say and do what he does mostly because US was firmly behind him. Without US, he has many sympathies, but little actual leverage. His people aren't going to be loading those guns and making those drones out of solidarity tweets.

People tend to mix up what is rightous with what is required unfortunately. People like slogans, when the world is run on real power.

Zelenskyy let himself be baited into something he really can't afford. I would be mad as hell if I was Ukrainian with both Trump and Zelenskyys performance.

Note that I think the US does benefit from their security arrangements, I support Ukraine to get back all territory and so on if they do manage that (they won't, but I would be very happy if they do) and think Putin and Russia are doomed within 20 years. That doesn't mean I need to yell slogans between supporting these things.

I'm surprised people here still have this "Disney view" of the conflict. Why would anyone want to live in la-la-land information wise in a real conflict?

Meanwhile, Europe stands stunned at the reality that experts have been screaming in their tiny neolib ears for years now without listening.

[alach]

Gotta hand it to trump, he managed to Unite the Alliance and Horde. Of course there are still a few members from cult of N'Zoth left, but it seems like the consensus across the globe this morning is that trump is a piece of shit that played Zelensky dirty.
donald j drumpf. Truely the dumbest russian assest at putins disposable.

Here is some headlines from Forbes, etc. to counter any aforementions cultists' talking points.

New Guns, More Ammo: Ukraine’s Artillery Blasts Away At A Rate Of Millions Of Shells A Year

Ukraine “needs lots and lots of 155-millimeter shells,” wrote Michael Shurkin, an associate fellow at the Royal United Services Institute in London. Can Ukraine keep its big guns firing as Trump aligns the United States with Russia and halts further U.S. aid to Ukraine?

Fortunately for Ukraine, the answer is a qualified—and complicated—yes. Separate Czech, Estonian, German and Norwegian initiatives, among others, should keep Ukraine’s best 155-millimeter howitzers blasting away, even as stockpiles of American shells run out.

Since February 2022, Ukraine has received around 900 155-millimeter howitzers from its allies as well as millions of shells for these towed and self-propelled guns, each of which lobs a 100-pound shell 15 miles or farther. The Ukrainians have lost around 200 of the guns to Russian action, but are replacing them with locally made wheeled howitzers at a rate of around 20 new guns a month.

All told, Ukrainian artillery fires 5,000 or more 155-millimeter rounds every day for an annual total of around 2 million shells. That’s fewer shells than Russian artillery fires, but enough to shatter attacking Russian formations—and make them pay dearly in troops and vehicles for every yard they advance.

As Trump Rages, A Ukrainian Jet Armed With French Bombs Hammers A Russian Intel Base

European allies rally behind Ukraine after White House row

[Wilian]

The problem is that some forms of support provided by the US cannot be readily replaced by other countries and their withdrawal would have an immediate effect. Same with the US withdrawing sanctions from Russia. And Trump absolutely can do either. Not because he is petty. Because he always planned to.

I am perfectly aware of this. I have spent last two to three years ripping into EU and Europe as a whole for the sheer incompetence, mismanagement and inability to act and react in any reasonable timeframe as indicated my post history. However what some people don't seem to grasp (be it the Trump's cock gobbling roaches or just people hoping for better outcome) that time of US support in any meaningful fashion is over regardless.

White House is ruled by Putin's vassal, their government is in hands of robber barons who idealize dictators all over the world. They vote alongside countries like North Korea in UN. The support is over, regardless of how much these cretins hope and think Zelensky should suck Trump's dick, which he thankfully did not. The aid cannot be easily replaced if it can be at all because the facilities to create military hardware, ammunition etc. can be decade long projects in Europe but era of US aid is essentially over no matter what. What is going is that leftovers already earmarked for Ukraine from Biden's era is still being transferred but that is running dry sooner rather than later at rate of consumption that is happening.

Genocide glamouring posters than Gaidax would love nothing more than to see their daddy Trump humiliate Zelensky and pretend the outcome would be any different short of selling his country under attack by genocidial imperialistic colonial invader to a genocidial colonial dictator (that Trump is in term of foreing policy)

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People tend to mix up what is rightous with what is required unfortunately. People like slogans, when the world is run on real power.

Zelenskyy let himself be baited into something he really can't afford. I would be mad as hell if I was Ukrainian with both Trump and Zelenskyys performance.

Note that I think the US does benefit from their security arrangements, I support Ukraine to get back all territory and so on if they do manage that (they won't, but I would be very happy if they do) and think Putin and Russia are doomed within 20 years. That doesn't mean I need to yell slogans between supporting these things.

I'm surprised people here still have this "Disney view" of the conflict. Why would anyone want to live in la-la-land information wise in a real conflict?

Meanwhile, Europe stands stunned at the reality that experts have been screaming in their tiny neolib ears for years now without listening.

Thinking that Zelensky's actions would've somehow altered Putin's vassal's course is the example of living in the Disney la-la-la land.

[Nymrohd]

I am perfectly aware of this. I have spent last two to three years ripping into EU and Europe as a whole for the sheer incompetence, mismanagement and inability to act and react in any reasonable timeframe as indicated my post history. However what some people don't seem to grasp (be it the Trump's cock gobbling roaches or just people hoping for better outcome) that time of US support in any meaningful fashion is over regardless.

White House is ruled by Putin's vassal, their government is in hands of robber barons who idealize dictators all over the world. They vote alongside countries like North Korea in UN. The support is over, regardless of how much these cretins hope and think Zelensky should suck Trump's dick, which he thankfully did not. The aid cannot be easily replaced if it can be at all because the facilities to create military hardware, ammunition etc. can be decade long projects in Europe but era of US aid is essentially over no matter what. What is going is that leftovers already earmarked for Ukraine from Biden's era is still being transferred but that is running dry sooner rather than later at rate of consumption that is happening.

Genocide glamouring posters than Gaidax would love nothing more than to see their daddy Trump humiliate Zelensky and pretend the outcome would be any different short of selling his country under attack by genocidial imperialistic colonial invader to a genocidial colonial dictator (that Trump is in term of foreing policy)

Honestly I think the main concern is intelligence. I think Europe can provide (or buy and then provide) support to Ukraine when it comes to arms. But I don't think we have enough intelligence to prevent the next battery of missiles launched at civilian targets from hitting only 1-2 targets instead of dozens of targets. Or to allow for Ukraine to strike significant Russian facilities.

[Elenos]

Honestly I think the main concern is intelligence. I think Europe can provide (or buy and then provide) support to Ukraine when it comes to arms. But I don't think we have enough intelligence to prevent the next battery of missiles launched at civilian targets from hitting only 1-2 targets instead of dozens of targets. Or to allow for Ukraine to strike significant Russian facilities.

Trump has ordered the DoD to stand down on all cyber operations against Russia after the meeting with Zelensky. I suspect next we will hear the US is preparing to end Starlink and Starshield support.

[Wilian]

Honestly I think the main concern is intelligence. I think Europe can provide (or buy and then provide) support to Ukraine when it comes to arms. But I don't think we have enough intelligence to prevent the next battery of missiles launched at civilian targets from hitting only 1-2 targets instead of dozens of targets. Or to allow for Ukraine to strike significant Russian facilities.

We can only wait and see. US support was going to away, regardless of the outcome of this meeting anyhow.

[Nymrohd]

Trump has already ordered the DoD to stand down on all cyber operations against Russia.

Which honestly has nothing to do with Ukraine. It has to do with Trump considering Russia an ally, either because he is bought and paid for or because Russia has invested in taking a prominent side on culture war issues and the culture war is MAGA's lifeblood.

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We can only wait and see. US support was going to away, regardless of the outcome of this meeting anyhow.

Yeah the meeting was only ever going to be performative. Zelensky could not decline it, but at least he chose to not allow himself to be humiliated for Trump's amusement. Because it would not be appeasement, there was nothing he could have gained.

[Timester]

Trump has ordered the DoD to stand down on all cyber operations against Russia after the meeting with Zelensky. I suspect next we will hear the US is preparing to end Starlink and Starshield support.

As if there isn't any entire continent already supporting Ukraine with intelligence.

The US failed to learn with resurgence in Iraq and yet again repeats the same mistake.

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Honestly I think the main concern is intelligence. I think Europe can provide (or buy and then provide) support to Ukraine when it comes to arms. But I don't think we have enough intelligence to prevent the next battery of missiles launched at civilian targets from hitting only 1-2 targets instead of dozens of targets. Or to allow for Ukraine to strike significant Russian facilities.

Musk is firing all American intelligence, so it was already a moot point.

[Wilian]

Musk is firing all American intelligence, so it was already a moot point.

Which is funny because why bother though, they already installed Russian asset into lead of the intelligence community, they would serve their Tsâr better by keeping all tabs for God King Putin.

[Shadowferal]

Zelenskyy is leading a war for existence. And Trump wants to quibble over his own shitty ego and money… and stage a show for Putin’s benefit.
They couldn’t be anything but enemies.

[NED funded]

Are you insane? this was a public humiliation, is the United States the only country in the world with nationalism? if he did as you say his country would revolt against him. Let's also make something else clear any deal Zelensky makes still needs to pass his congress, there's zero chance a deal selling out Ukraine with no solid guarantees will pass. He did the best he could with the hand he got dealt, this was an ambush by Trump to humiliate him, there was no way to make Trump "feel right" because he loves Putin.

Do you think he was calling Zelensky a dictator out of love? he was set up to fail.

Trump is a disgrace. He is a disgrace, his behaviour on the oval office belongs to corrupt petty officials in Latin America, I know bc I had to deal with it. But like corrupt petty officials you need to asage his ego. And you can say that Zelensky doesnt HAVE to do it and I would agree. If this was any other president but Trump. Its a tradeoff, do you want weapons from the US now or do you want to rely on the cheap words of European countries. The fact that continous support from the US is dependent on Trumps ego says enough about how I think or feel about the situation but if you are the Ukranian leader you need to consider those sort of situations.

[ringpriest]

Trump has ordered the DoD to stand down on all cyber operations against Russia after the meeting with Zelensky. I suspect next we will hear the US is preparing to end Starlink and Starshield support.

Ukraine's Starlink access is paid for by Poland, not the US.

Now, whether or not the Ukrainians (or anyone) should trust a communications network controlled by a drugged, megalomaniacal Nazi like Musk is a different question. (Although I get that there are not a lot of great alternatives.)

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This is basically what people here don't understand.

Can be angry all day long, but US support is indispensable and in many more ways than just plain banal money.

Mean and unfair, for sure. Does not change that fact though.

US support is useful, yes. Whether or not it is indispensable...

As Zelenskyy pointed out, Putin said the war would be over in three days.

Trump says it would be over in two weeks without US support. I guess we'll find out.

Besides, Trump - as a de facto Putin asset - was always going to pull US support to the Ukraine. The only question was how much he could shakedown Ukraine and Zelenskyy first. Keeping the US onboard was never an option (unless Trump and Vance die, of course) beyond the very short term.

[korijenkins]

Ukraine's Starlink access is paid for by Poland, not the US.

Now, whether or not the Ukrainians (or anyone) should trust a communications network controlled by a drugged, megalomaniacal Nazi like Musk is a different question. (Although I get that there are not a lot of great alternatives.)

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US support is useful, yes. Whether or not it is indispensable...

As Zelenskyy pointed out, Putin said the war would be over in three days.

Trump says it would be over in two weeks without US support. I guess we'll find out.

Besides, Trump - as a de facto Putin asset - was always going to pull US support to the Ukraine. The only question was how much he could shakedown Ukraine and Zelenskyy first. Keeping the US onboard was never an option (unless Trump and Vance die, of course) beyond the very short term.

Trump's claim about the war ending in 2 weeks without US support was already proven wrong when Russia failed at Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Sumy while Biden was trying to convince Zelenskyy to flee the country. Significant weapons deliveries didn't ramp up until it was apparent the capital would not fall, which was over a month.

[Doomcookie]

Who? And how their distorted views matter ?

Why don't you remember?

Were you too busy asking questions?

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Yes. Yes, it is what it is - he had no power there and no business getting into this dumb argument in front of the media.

Zelensky was correct in 90% of what he said. Trump was correct in one thing he said - Zelensky has no leverage. That one correct statement means much more than 10 correct statements from Zelensky.

I think that Trump made a mistake there too, but I really expected Zelensky to not supply the ammo for that to happen - I really took him for much smarter than that.



Europe can't do shit - don't even think Europe can actually replace the void US will leave if it bails. It's really that simple.

Trump is correct in stating that Zelensky can say and do what he does mostly because US was firmly behind him. Without US, he has many sympathies, but little actual leverage. His people aren't going to be loading those guns and making those drones out of solidarity tweets.

It's weird watching you consistently defend Nazis.

[Wilian]

Trump is a disgrace. He is a disgrace, his behaviour on the oval office belongs to corrupt petty officials in Latin America, I know bc I had to deal with it. But like corrupt petty officials you need to asage his ego. And you can say that Zelensky doesnt HAVE to do it and I would agree. If this was any other president but Trump. Its a tradeoff, do you want weapons from the US now or do you want to rely on the cheap words of European countries. The fact that continous support from the US is dependent on Trumps ego says enough about how I think or feel about the situation but if you are the Ukranian leader you need to consider those sort of situations.

It does not matter, Trump is Russias vassal. Outcome would be the same regardless of conduct. Had Zelensky bowed to Putin's pup now that would have been the real circus.

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Trump's claim about the war ending in 2 weeks without US support was already proven wrong when Russia failed at Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Sumy while Biden was trying to convince Zelenskyy to flee the country. Significant weapons deliveries didn't ramp up until it was apparent the capital would not fall, which was over a month.

Battle over Hostomel was probably single most important battle of this war that decided its direction and Ukraine won it alone.

[Xath]

People tend to mix up what is rightous with what is required unfortunately. People like slogans, when the world is run on real power.

Zelenskyy let himself be baited into something he really can't afford. I would be mad as hell if I was Ukrainian with both Trump and Zelenskyys performance.

Note that I think the US does benefit from their security arrangements, I support Ukraine to get back all territory and so on if they do manage that (they won't, but I would be very happy if they do) and think Putin and Russia are doomed within 20 years. That doesn't mean I need to yell slogans between supporting these things.

I'm surprised people here still have this "Disney view" of the conflict. Why would anyone want to live in la-la-land information wise in a real conflict?

Meanwhile, Europe stands stunned at the reality that experts have been screaming in their tiny neolib ears for years now without listening.

Are you dumb? Zel walked into a no win scenario that Trump was just trying to gain something more before turning Ukraine over to Russia. Freaking Russia state news was there. He instead walked out letting the us humiliate ourselves and with pledges of support from basically the rest of the free world. If he kneeled down and kissed the ring he would have nothing when Trump does what putin tells him to. With the US publicly breaking he has made it clear that Ukraine needs aid now and the rest of the world responded. Frankly Putin is probably pissed now instead of Ukraine largely relaint on a power he controls in all but name Ukraine will recieve increased backing from the rest of the world. The only people that lost were the US and Russia, Zel came out of a no win scenario designed to cause humiliation for him and his country with a massive win.

[PACOX]

Ukraine has the right to defend itself with or without allies.

[Sunseeker]

Yeah I dont see how Zelesky fucked this one up either. It was a shitty situation, but frankly its the ssme trick Trump pulls on all the foreign leaders he meets with. Publically shame them on TV to get them to bow down. That works on some people, but it wont work forever, and itll never work on some people.

Zelesky clearly stuck it out because putting up with it gets him what he wants. He wasnt going to deck Trump(which frankly, he deserved) for speaking to him in that manner, but he clearly wasnt cowed, as a couple foreign leaders Trump has caught with this trick. And he clearly wasnt interested in playing the game, as Macron and Kishida did.

Frankly, Zelesky behaved as best as he could in the situation.

Trumps trick is gonna start to fail going forward, foreign leaders are going to be prepped on how to handle it, how to handle him. Like everything Trump is currently doing, he has a rapidly closing window of "winning" because his game isnt very good, its just fast and cruel.

[Endus]

This is basically what people here don't understand.

Can be angry all day long, but US support is indispensable and in many more ways than just plain banal money.

Mean and unfair, for sure. Does not change that fact though.

It's not a "fact" to begin with. And you're basically trying to argue the USA is a big enough bully everyone should just surrender to their whims, no matter how abusive. The USA likes to pretend that they're indispensable, but it's like the rich kid showing up at the party with a keg, pretending like he's the only way anyone would get to drink beer. Sure, it's convenient that we get free beer, but if you're a rapist asshole, you're not getting invited to the fucking party any more, and we'll be just fine without your beer, thanks.

The USA isn't even providing most of the support to Ukraine. EU support vastly outpaces US support. The USA may be the largest single donor to the Ukrainian cause, but it won't crumble without that support. Especially with EU leaders talking about ramping up support in the expectation of the USA being a petty-ass bitch.

[Xath]

Ukraine has the right to defend itself with or without allies.

Too many people think of war like a video game. You take over the country by taking capital and poof everyone loyal no problems. That isn't how war works. We somehow always forget this even after Vietnam Afghanistan (USSR version) Iraq Afghanistan (again but US) the absolute shitshow that is Gaza. You take over a countries land that's fine but it doesn't make the people loyal it doesn't stop the fighting.