Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Kaleredar]

I'm not justifying their actions. I think both your parties are crazy and should be treated at arms length.

However the Democrats are just as guilty for the current events than the Republicans. You've pushed each others buttons at every opportunity. No wonder they've gone off the deep end. They think Democrats have gone of the deep end too.

Democrats have gone nowhere near off the deep end and frankly that isn’t relevant to what we’re talking about.


You “hoped” that Trump would act in good faith. That’s a coward’s hope, and that’s what we’ll leave it at.

[Corvus]

Russia would never have joined NATO unless they were put in charge. Russia does not believe in equals, only vassals

[Endus]

I'm not justifying their actions. I think both your parties are crazy and should be treated at arms length.

However the Democrats are just as guilty for the current events than the Republicans. You've pushed each others buttons at every opportunity. No wonder they've gone off the deep end. They think Democrats have gone of the deep end too.

Empty "both sides" bullshit serves only the Republicans, by willfully misrepresenting the difference between the two parties as somehow a difference of equal villainy.

And that's a lie. It's not a difference of opinion; it's a willful and knowing lie.

Yes, Republicans think Democrats have "gone off the deep end", for things like;

1> Respecting trans people,
2> Respecting black people,
3> Respecting women,
4> Respecting the LGBTQ+,
5> Respecting that not everyone is hard-line Christian and that's okay,
6> Wanting to make life better for those in need,
7> Having basic empathy for their fellow man,

And so on. Things like that are the difference. Republicans are, every single one of them, either overtly bigots themselves, or at a minimum perfectly willing to accept bigotry being pushed in their name and on their behalf, to inflict harm on innocents. Every single Republican voter and representative. No exceptions.

You can't say that about the Democrats. Who are by no means a perfect party, but they aren't a party fundamentally and solely defined by fascism and bigotry, like the Republicans. There's nothing else to the Republican Party. Everything else is a dogwhistle or a lie.

And if you can't see that, you're part of the problem, and on their side, lying to our faces to try and make it seem like "both sides are just as bad". That's just factually incorrect. And you know it. Don't gaslight us; we're not stupid enough to fall for the bullshit.

[Xath]

Seriously 90% of the dems are right on a world stage it's actually sickening to watch people push the both sides crap

[Doomcookie]

When did I defend Nazis ?

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Well, if everyone was part of NATO, there would no point in invading your neighboor because they also would be a part of NATO and all of NATO would rise to repel you.

When did you not?

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I don't understand why the Europeans hate us even though we sent aid to Ukraine and trained their pilots. We also have a strong army and military spending. They did not call us on London but they called Turkey which is not even in the EU and is hostile to other EU members. Of course, my country (Greece) did not take a clear stance against Trump and in favor of Zelensky but still.... This is too much. I'm disgusted with this. I'm well aware that we are a puppet state of the US & Israel and they have tons of bases here and we need these bases, are we getting sidelined because of this?

Well, I'd rather keep good relations with the trio US/Russia/Israel than the EU. If we leave the EU and become another Israel, I would LOVE that.

If it weren't for the EU, your country would have collapsed.

[Corvus]

Another russian refinery is on fire, this one 1500km away. That's the deepest strike yet, further stretching russian air defence.

Drones are reportedly the main damage dealers if the war, and Ukraine is producing most if them itself.

[Deus Mortis]

If Ukraine is just going to surrender to Russia's demands, why do they need to take the mineral deal? What's the mineral deal actually for?

Hopefully to have the scenario where US is collecting resources and will defend their profits. Something like what happened in Syria in 2018(during Trumps 1st term), really good article, too long to quote the entire thing.
https://archive.ph/jaj7u
How a 4-Hour Battle Between Russian Mercenaries and U.S. Commandos Unfolded in Syria

WASHINGTON — The artillery barrage was so intense that the American commandos dived into foxholes for protection, emerging covered in flying dirt and debris to fire back at a column of tanks advancing under the heavy shelling. It was the opening salvo in a nearly four-hour assault in February by around 500 pro-Syrian government forces — including Russian mercenaries — that threatened to inflame already-simmering tensions between Washington and Moscow.
In the end, 200 to 300 of the attacking fighters were killed. The others retreated under merciless airstrikes from the United States, returning later to retrieve their battlefield dead. None of the Americans at the small outpost in eastern Syria — about 40 by the end of the firefight — were harmed.

Some of the leaked audio of some of the surviving Russians.
https://www.voanews.com/a/us-wagner-...=polygraphinfo

[Kaleredar]

Hopefully to have the scenario where US is collecting resources and will defend their profits. Something like what happened in Syria in 2018(during Trumps 1st term), really good article, too long to quote the entire thing.
https://archive.ph/jaj7u
How a 4-Hour Battle Between Russian Mercenaries and U.S. Commandos Unfolded in Syria


Some of the leaked audio of some of the surviving Russians.
https://www.voanews.com/a/us-wagner-...=polygraphinfo

I assume that Ukraine recognizes that whatever the deal was ceded too much to Russia outright or was contingent on something Ukraine could never provide. Remember, Trump is not acting in good faith here.

Besides, what if Russia just says “whatever Ukraine is giving you? Yeah, we’ll just give you that when we take over.”

[DarkTZeratul]

NATO is the one who has been rejecting Ukraine as well. And the same goes for the EU. They should have admitted Kyiv to their ranks then years ago if they truly sought to be serious in protecting Ukrainian sovereignty, yet they repeatedly did not do so.

Have you ever looked into the reason for this, or are you just assuming that Ukraine asked and the rest of the world turned up our noses? Because for most of the early 2000s there were serious talks, and things were moving - slowly, but surely - towards NATO membership. In 2005 President Viktor Yushchenko stated that Ukraine's goal was "full membership in NATO and the European Union", in 2006 several NATO members voiced their support for Ukraine's eventual admission, and in 2008 NATO resolved to help Ukraine implement the necessary reforms to be able to join.

Then Viktor Yanukovych took power, killed all deals with NATO, and basically ran the country like a vassal state of Russia until 2014 when rising public unrest forced him to flee the country, Ukraine's parliament voted to remove him from office, and Russia - now out of options for preventing Ukraine from joining NATO - simply invaded.

[Vampiregenesis]

When did you not?

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If it weren't for the EU, your country would have collapsed.

No friend, our country would be great, Unions suck if you can't compete with the other players in them, unfair competition, higher prices, less flexible alliances/deals, less independence, brain drain. See Bulgaria and Croatia, these people already regret switching to Euro. My country has collapsed because of the EU, it has deprived us from everything. My country wasn't rich before but it was functional and growing country. The thing is that we are not in this union for economic benefits but rather for geopolitic stabilization but this is not the case, they don't care about us, they sell incredible amount of equipment to Turkey and troll us constantly so there is no point being in this Union anymore. I'd admit the US is the closest that can be called an ally, the region is important for them, they use it to support Israel. Anyway this is a different subject for another thread.

You people are delluded, the EU has pissed its pants with Putin, if they didn't then their armies would already be there, they cry that they are ready to send troops to Ukraine and that they must resist Putin but then they do nothing about it and drop the ball to US, EU is a big joke, they can have their Ukraine, I just want to see us out of it so we can at least get back some of our pride and save whatever can still be saved.

[Voidwielder]

Have you ever looked into the reason for this, or are you just assuming that Ukraine asked and the rest of the world turned up our noses? Because for most of the early 2000s there were serious talks, and things were moving - slowly, but surely - towards NATO membership. In 2005 President Viktor Yushchenko stated that Ukraine's goal was "full membership in NATO and the European Union", in 2006 several NATO members voiced their support for Ukraine's eventual admission, and in 2008 NATO resolved to help Ukraine implement the necessary reforms to be able to join.

Then Viktor Yanukovych took power, killed all deals with NATO, and basically ran the country like a vassal state of Russia until 2014 when rising public unrest forced him to flee the country, Ukraine's parliament voted to remove him from office, and Russia - now out of options for preventing Ukraine from joining NATO - simply invaded.

Ukraine had no chances of joining NATO.
This is something Russian military analysts were very well aware of.

[Gabriel]

No friend, our country would be great, Unions suck if you can't compete with the other players in them, unfair competition, higher prices, less flexible alliances/deals, less independence, brain drain. See Bulgaria and Croatia, these people already regret switching to Euro. My country has collapsed because of the EU, it has deprived us from everything. My country wasn't rich before but it was functional and growing country. The thing is that we are not in this union for economic benefits but rather for geopolitic stabilization but this is not the case, they don't care about us, they sell incredible amount of equipment to Turkey and troll us constantly so there is no point being in this Union anymore. I'd admit the US is the closest that can be called an ally, the region is important for them, they use it to support Israel. Anyway this is a different subject for another thread.

You people are delluded, the EU has pissed its pants with Putin, if they didn't then their armies would already be there, they cry that they are ready to send troops to Ukraine and that they must resist Putin but then they do nothing about it and drop the ball to US, EU is a big joke, they can have their Ukraine, I just want to see us out of it so we can at least get back some of our pride.

Alright, fuck off then.

[Saradain]

Alright, fuck off then.

Give him a break, he fucked off once to look for russian points of view, found an echo chamber where deranged and delusional conspiracies can be presented as facts. Now he's a fully grown lunatic...from eastern Europe. Why is it always eastern europeans that have these ideas that Russia good, west bad?

[MCMLXXXII]

Alright, fuck off then.

Greece is still sucking that money teet of the EU, only 4 other countries received more then them per capita. Delusional...

[Vampiregenesis]

Alright, fuck off then.

Are you an Ukrainian?

Why are you not in the front lines already?

[Saradain]

Are you an Ukrainian?

Why are you not in the front lines already?

And here is your true nature revealed. A troll.

[Azadina]

No friend, our country would be great, Unions suck if you can't compete with the other players in them, unfair competition, higher prices, less flexible alliances/deals, less independence, brain drain. See Bulgaria and Croatia, these people already regret switching to Euro. My country has collapsed because of the EU, it has deprived us from everything. My country wasn't rich before but it was functional and growing country. The thing is that we are not in this union for economic benefits but rather for geopolitic stabilization but this is not the case, they don't care about us, they sell incredible amount of equipment to Turkey and troll us constantly so there is no point being in this Union anymore. I'd admit the US is the closest that can be called an ally, the region is important for them, they use it to support Israel. Anyway this is a different subject for another thread.

You people are delluded, the EU has pissed its pants with Putin, if they didn't then their armies would already be there, they cry that they are ready to send troops to Ukraine and that they must resist Putin but then they do nothing about it and drop the ball to US, EU is a big joke, they can have their Ukraine, I just want to see us out of it so we can at least get back some of our pride and save whatever can still be saved.

That makes two of us who want Greece out. One less welfare queen nation then. But you'd never leave willingly. Leeching welfare is simply far too lucrative to pass, aint it?

By the way: not all of the money was flat out welfare, some of them were loans. Why don't you get off your ass and go work to pay it back?

One last thing. Do take the other Putler loving nation (Hungary) and the online crime division (Romania) with you, in case you leave.

[alach]

Give him a break, he fucked off once to look for russian points of view, found an echo chamber where deranged and delusional conspiracies can be presented as facts. Now he's a fully grown lunatic...from eastern Europe. Why is it always eastern europeans that have these ideas that Russia good, west bad?

Interesting question that. Has a rather complicated answer, but theres a few things.

CSD: Bulgaria one of EU, Nato member states most vulnerable to Russian disinformation

The Greeks have a stereotype of being complainers. Its just in their nature. They have actually been treated badly in the past, they were picked on alot throughout WW2 if I remember my history, so I guess there is a reason behind it, but it for sure goes back well before the EU.
As a personal opinion, it's always seemed to be doing pretty well whenever I have visited.

[Nymrohd]

That makes two of us who want Greece out. One less welfare queen nation then. But you'd never leave willingly. Leeching welfare is simply far too lucrative to pass, aint it?

By the way: not all of the money was flat out welfare, some of them were loans. Why don't you get off your ass and go work to pay it back?

One last thing. Do take the other Putler loving nation (Hungary) and the online crime division (Romania) with you, in case you leave.

We are paying off our loans ahead of time for multiple years in a row while having some of the best macro numbers in Europe right now. And the opinions of vampire are not shared by many in Greece. So maybe fuck off with generalizing against an entire country because you saw a lunatic on the internet.

[Saradain]

Interesting question that. Has a rather complicated answer, but theres a few things.

CSD: Bulgaria one of EU, Nato member states most vulnerable to Russian disinformation

The Greeks have a stereotype of being complainers. Its just in their nature. They have actually been treated badly in the past, they were picked on alot throughout WW2 if I remember my history, so I guess there is a reason behind it, but it for sure goes back well before the EU.
As a personal opinion, it's always seemed to be doing pretty well whenever I have visited.

I was sure the troll is romanian, but eh, I've seen plenty of greeks siding with russians too. Would pain me to categorize Greece as eastern europe, but hey, it only proves vatnik propaganda works better than it should when people who never suffered soviet oppression think it was a good thing to aspire to...