Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Gorsameth]

"I give Russia everything they asked for before negotiations even started, they are really easy to work with. Ukraine won't give up half their country for my Nobel peace price. They are hard to work with."

The mind of Donald Trump.

[Logwyn]

Georgia certainly. Armenia fairly likely. But not Azerbaijan as that would require going to war with Turkey as well, and also involve Israel.

At some point He'll not care who else is thrown into the mix.

[zealo]

"I give Russia everything they asked for before negotiations even started, they are really easy to work with. Ukraine won't give up half their country for my Nobel peace price. They are hard to work with."

The mind of Donald Trump.

He's insane and so is his obsession with getting a nobel peace prize, it'll snow in hell before he gets awarded that from a committee appointed by parliament in Norway, when he stabs Ukraine in the back against Russian aggression.

[Deus Mortis]

Not looking good today lads,
Ukraine considers Kursk withdrawal amid fears of encirclement of 10,000 troops, Telegraph reports


Remember who we can thank for this. I doubt the nuance of something like morale means anything to trump, but it has a real-world affect on those on the ground. When the republicans were blocking aid last year, Ukraine was severely on the backfoot and the soldiers had deserations and record low morale. As soon as it passed, things turned around. trumps constant flipping and flopping and "will he or wont he?" can't be good for those down in the trenches. Also, the intelligence stuff.

Sadly it has been going this way in Kursk for awhile now. Russia has been gaining there week by week the past several months. The thing that seemed to really change in the area was the mass use by Russia using Fiber Optic drones wrecking havoc on Ukraine vehicles/armor.

[En Sabah Nur]

He's insane and so is his obsession with getting a nobel peace prize

He wants it simply because Obama has it. That's it. Trump is a petty, jealous child.

[Elenos]

Sadly it has been going this way in Kursk for awhile now. Russia has been gaining there week by week the past several months. The thing that seemed to really change in the area was the mass use by Russia using Fiber Optic drones wrecking havoc on Ukraine vehicles/armor.

That and the cold. During January and February the temperature in Sudzha was an average of -4 to -6 degrees Celsius, even as low as -11 degrees. There was also snow and rain to contend with.

Now? It's 11 degrees Celsius and getting warmer with only light rain ahead. The influence of Trump's decisions are far behind the weather situation allowing Russian advances. Ukraine was losing in Kursk months ago.

[Voidism]

I understand the anger with the Zelenskyy-Trump meeting, but I think genuine support for Ukraine takes more than outrage like many show in this thread. The raw truth is that global politics runs on power and not moral symbolism. Trump holds significant power right now whether we like it or not. Zelenskyy had one critical job to play the hand he’s been dealt, calmly and strategically. It isn’t about bowing down or losing dignity, it’s about securing Ukraine’s long-term interests.

Critiquing Zelenskyy’s approach doesn’t mean siding with Trump or Putin. Even die-hard pro-Ukraine experts have made similar points and faced their own unfair backlash. Remember, these experts are allies, truly committed to Ukraine’s victory and democracy.

If we really want Ukraine to win, which we do, we must face the reality we’re in. Trump is predictable, driven by ego, and can be managed smartly. That doesn’t mean giving up on principles. It means being strategic. Outrage alone won’t change who’s in the White House or help Ukraine fend off Russia’s aggression. Practical realism will.

Let’s support Ukraine smartly. That’s how we beat people like Trump - not by getting emotional, but by outmaneuvering them.

What I think should happen is for Europe to stop looking so surprised all the time. The neoliberal technocratic project needs to go, full stop. Instead of doubling down on mass surveillance, like what’s being talked about in the EU, the focus should be on building real democratic resilience. Right now, too many people feel disenfranchised and disillusioned with stagnation and neoliberal policies. Politicians point to higher numbers, but regular people aren’t feeling it.

[Fugus]

@Voidism

You make the mistake of thinking that meeting could have gone any better. The whole point of that meeting was to humiliate Zelenskyy while forcing him to sign an agreement that was very one sided. It's whole point was to de-legitimize him to his base and demoralize his people.

The US goes in and gets minerals while Russia gets sanctions lifted and gets to regroup and then try again after the US had abandoned them since they had no security guarantees while the rest of NATO doesn't have time to respond, especially as it was out of the public eye for a while.

What happened was realistically the best thing that could have happened for Zelenskyy as it made Trump look weak while showing his hand, made Zelenskyy look strong while also getting a new push of support for Ukraine from the other nations.

As this point, any meeting between them is just biding for time for the EU and the rest of NATO to build up and further support Ukraine and themselves as EVERYONE already knows that Russia would also be using it to regroup while Trump does everything he can to feed them money and resources for their next push.

If I was other nations, I would be making plans to have US bases on their lands to be removed as they could be used as points of a surprise attack due to the current administration and what they want to be. The US is just a threat to it's allies now and will likely continue to be for decades to come due to all the damage this has created and the people it has put into lifetime positions of power because of these people.

[Elder Millennial]

I understand the anger with the Zelenskyy-Trump meeting, but I think genuine support for Ukraine takes more than outrage like many show in this thread. The raw truth is that global politics runs on power and not moral symbolism. Trump holds significant power right now whether we like it or not. Zelenskyy had one critical job to play the hand he’s been dealt, calmly and strategically. It isn’t about bowing down or losing dignity, it’s about securing Ukraine’s long-term interests..

As others have mentioned, that meeting was an ambush. There was really nothing Zelensky could have said or done to appease Trump. The entire MAGA apparatus, spearheaded by the likes of Tucker Carlson, David Sachs, Tim Pool etc has been laying the ground work for this, often directly financially sponsored by Russia (like Tim Pool).

The entire point of that meeting was to publicly humiliate Zelensky and add fuel to the anti-Ukraine MAGA stance or to back him into tacitly agreeing to Trump's and by extension Moscow's. The mineral deal was bait. Plain and simple bait, bait to get Zelensky into that meeting, in hindsight the expert consensus was that Trump had no serious intention to sign it...unless Zelensky would basically capitulate and surrender then and there, and even then, nothing real would have come of the deal anyway.

You could argue that Zelensky's main mistake was accepting to meet Trump to sign the deal in the first place, but as you also pointed out, Zelensky didn't have a real choice here either way as he couldn't pass up on the chance, no matter how remote to appease Trump and get him to play ball.

[Elenos]

As others have mentioned, that meeting was an ambush. There was really nothing Zelensky could have said or done to appease Trump. The entire MAGA apparatus, spearheaded by the likes of Tucker Carlson, David Sachs, Tim Pool etc has been laying the ground work for this, often directly financially sponsored by Russia (like Tim Pool).

Look all I am going to say on that subject is this: If it was bait Zelenskyy took the bait hook line and sinker.

But that's not really what happened apparently. Even the New York Times and Washington Post insist based on insider information that Trump wanted the mineral deal, why? Because he wants to be seen as a dealmaker.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/01/u...own-trump.html

The question hovering over Washington on Friday evening was whether the confrontation was a spontaneous outburst or a planned verbal smack down by Mr. Trump and Vice President JD Vance, neither of whom respects Mr. Zelensky.

But three people with knowledge of what took place beforehand said neither Mr. Trump nor Mr. Vance had been looking to blow up a deal for Ukraine’s mineral rights, which Mr. Zelensky had been expected to sign in Washington. Instead, they said, Mr. Zelensky seemingly triggered the two American leaders by not sufficiently thanking the United States for trying to end the war (which Mr. Trump wanted to hear) and by pressing for commitments to protect Ukraine from Russian aggression going forward (which Mr. Trump did not want to hear).

[Fugus]

Look all I am going to say on that subject is this: If it was bait Zelenskyy took the bait hook line and sinker.

But that's not really what happened apparently. Even the New York Times and Washington Post insist based on insider information that Trump wanted the mineral deal, why? Because he wants to be seen as a dealmaker.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/01/u...own-trump.html

He WANTS to be seen as a deal maker, but he is PROVEN to be a puppet for Putin on this stuff.

Regardless of what Trump wants to be seen as, he still did exactly what Putin wanted and tried to force him into a one sided deal to de-legitimize him as a leader. The deal was literally to give Russia everything it wanted with no security guarantees for Ukraine at all while also blocking it from NATO.

Zelenskyy took the bait because the US (Until that point) was still a big helper to them and an ally thanks to Biden. I am betting he knew what he was walking into and was preparing as best he could.

A deal maker isn't much of a deal maker when their starting position is to give the bad guys everything they want because I like them and then refusing to budge from that position, which is what Trump did.

[Mazza]

Look all I am going to say on that subject is this: If it was bait Zelenskyy took the bait hook line and sinker.

But that's not really what happened apparently. Even the New York Times and Washington Post insist based on insider information that Trump wanted the mineral deal, why? Because he wants to be seen as a dealmaker.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/01/u...own-trump.html

Bullshit. Vance downright verbally assaulted Zelensky as soon as he could. You only need to look at Rubio's expression at the time to know just how not done something like that is at the diplomatic level.

[Jastall]

Look all I am going to say on that subject is this: If it was bait Zelenskyy took the bait hook line and sinker.

But that's not really what happened apparently. Even the New York Times and Washington Post insist based on insider information that Trump wanted the mineral deal, why? Because he wants to be seen as a dealmaker.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/01/u...own-trump.html

If so, it's a particularly poor way to go on about it for him. Having his minion begin trash talking Zelensky then joining in on the fun for the world to see isn't how you handle deals.

[NED funded]

It goes without saying but if America is willing to cede territory, depose the leader of Ukraine and not provide security guarantees then what is it good for? Ukraine can surrender on their own.

[Fugus]

It goes without saying but if America is willing to cede territory, depose the leader of Ukraine and not provide security guarantees then what is it good for? Ukraine can surrender on their own.

While I virtually never agree with you on anything, this we both are in 100% agreement on.

[PhaelixWW]

It goes without saying but if America is willing to cede territory, depose the leader of Ukraine and not provide security guarantees then what is it good for? Ukraine can surrender on their own.

Taking credit, of course.

That's all Trump really wants, after all: credit for "ending" the war.

[Mayhem]

Look all I am going to say on that subject is this: If it was bait Zelenskyy took the bait hook line and sinker.

But that's not really what happened apparently. Even the New York Times and Washington Post insist based on insider information that Trump wanted the mineral deal, why? Because he wants to be seen as a dealmaker.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/01/u...own-trump.html

It's two paragraphs, have you read them? You quoted them so I guess you have, but your post indicates you haven't so I am just confused.

Trump wanting the mineral deal does not refute that it was set up as an ambush. From a bully perspective it even makes sense to set it up this way, to pressure Zelenskyy to agree to the terms (get everything, risk nothing) set forth by Trump.

Ask yourself, would you be happy to lose parts of Romania, and rare earths for a peace that has no securities to last?

[Gorsameth]

It goes without saying but if America is willing to cede territory, depose the leader of Ukraine and not provide security guarantees then what is it good for? Ukraine can surrender on their own.

The deal was empty paper, that is the only reason why Zelensky was even willing to sign it.

Ukraine got strait up nothing, and the 'deal' for rare minerals to the US was so full of caveats and conditions that it would give the US nothing out of it either.

It was a complete non-deal who's only purpose was to make Trump feel good amount himself and Trump couldn't even manage to not fuck that up.

[LeGin v4]

I understand the anger with the Zelenskyy-Trump meeting, but I think genuine support for Ukraine takes more than outrage like many show in this thread. The raw truth is that global politics runs on power and not moral symbolism. Trump holds significant power right now whether we like it or not. Zelenskyy had one critical job to play the hand he’s been dealt, calmly and strategically. It isn’t about bowing down or losing dignity, it’s about securing Ukraine’s long-term interests.

Critiquing Zelenskyy’s approach doesn’t mean siding with Trump or Putin. Even die-hard pro-Ukraine experts have made similar points and faced their own unfair backlash. Remember, these experts are allies, truly committed to Ukraine’s victory and democracy.

If we really want Ukraine to win, which we do, we must face the reality we’re in. Trump is predictable, driven by ego, and can be managed smartly. That doesn’t mean giving up on principles. It means being strategic. Outrage alone won’t change who’s in the White House or help Ukraine fend off Russia’s aggression. Practical realism will.

Let’s support Ukraine smartly. That’s how we beat people like Trump - not by getting emotional, but by outmaneuvering them.

What I think should happen is for Europe to stop looking so surprised all the time. The neoliberal technocratic project needs to go, full stop. Instead of doubling down on mass surveillance, like what’s being talked about in the EU, the focus should be on building real democratic resilience. Right now, too many people feel disenfranchised and disillusioned with stagnation and neoliberal policies. Politicians point to higher numbers, but regular people aren’t feeling it.

I agree that outrange & anger aren't solutions but I disagree that Trump can be managed. This is the end of the American century. It's seismic.

Struggling to think of examples of appeasement that have had a "positive" outcome for both countries. Åland Islands? No examples where the aggressor has had imperialistic ambitions.

IDD, EU needs to reform. Is that even possible, though? Neoliberalism is locked in to its structures.

Short term: if Ukraine cedes territory allowing a Russian & Trump "victory" and Russia to narrowly avoid complete economic meltdown, EU has, what, 5? years to get its defence shit together. And that has to be a collective effort. Is that even possible.

[NED funded]

I used to believe that Zelensky had made a mistake but after the recent announcements its obvious that Trump never wanted to honour on this deal and his endgame remains. Depose Zelensky, cede territory to Ukraine and offer no security guarantees.

If anything, I am glad Zelensky wasnt meek about the whole ordeal bc it exposed Trump for what he really is. A Putin stooge