Russian invasion of Ukraine

[alach]

So from what I gather about this super important phone call trump made, no one agreed to anything and trump declared victory...?

CNN says;

Trump says Russia will ‘immediately’ work toward a ceasefire after phone call. But Putin seems unmoved

From The Guardian;

Speaking to reporters in Sochi after the two-hour conversation on Monday, Putin described the call as “very meaningful and frank” and said he was prepared to work with Ukraine on drafting a memorandum for future peace talks.

However, the Russian leader declined to support the US-proposed 30-day unconditional ceasefire, which Ukraine had already agreed to – and which Washington had framed as the call’s primary objective. Putin also suggested his country’s maximalist objectives in the war with Ukraine were unchanged.

In contrast, Trump offered a far more positive spin, saying in a post on his Truth Social network that the talks went “very well”.

And Putin basically says, "we have not agreed to anything, not even when we will talk about a ceasefire or truce."

Kremlin says there are "no deadlines and there cannot be any" for preparing memorandum with Ukraine

So here we are, right back where we started, where most of us have been saying for 3+ years now, putin does not want peace, he can not be reasoned with or have deals made with. He will not back down until Ukraine is destroyed, his army is depleted or he is dead.
Meanwhile, back in reality, Europe is preparing more sanctions, Finland is sending ammo purchased with siezed russian assets, and Ukraine has robots with flamethrowers.

[Edge-]

So from what I gather about this super important phone call trump made, no one agreed to anything and trump declared victory...?

so just like how donald negotiated a ceasefire between india and pakistan that both of them said, "no he fucking did not have any involvement lmao"?

i mean, this is the dude that said he'd end this war on Jan. 21, 2025. That's four months ago by my count (just shy of by a day), so I don't think we can take this dude too seriously!

[D Luniz]

so just like how donald negotiated a ceasefire between india and pakistan that both of them said, "no he fucking did not have any involvement lmao"?

i mean, this is the dude that said he'd end this war on Jan. 21, 2025. That's four months ago by my count (just shy of by a day), so I don't think we can take this dude too seriously!

With how he idolized Putin, just need to math out how long 1 day of a "three day operation" is, and thats how long Trump will try to take.

[alach]

Frontlines still stalled, nothing really to report on, but heres a scary headline;
Exclusive: Intercepted radio chatter and drone footage appear to capture Russian orders to kill surrendering Ukrainian troops

The radio crackled, but the order barked into it was clear: Capture the commander and kill the others.

The chilling exchange was part of a series of radio transmissions between Russian forces that Ukrainian officials say provide further evidence that Russian superiors are ordering soldiers to execute surrendering Ukrainian troops in violation of international law.

The radio communications intercepted by Ukraine, which were obtained by CNN from a Ukrainian intelligence official, appear to correspond in time with drone footage of a suspected execution by Russian soldiers in Ukraine’s eastern Zaporizhzhia region last November. The footage shows six soldiers lying face down on the ground, with at least two being shot at point blank range and another being marched away.

And all the way in Spain, maybe Ukraines version of the CIA or Mossad in action?
Ukrainian ex-politician shot dead outside Madrid’s American school, police source says

Former Ukrainian politician Andriy Portnov, who worked as an aide to pro-Russian former President Viktor Yanukovych, has been shot dead in the Spanish capital Madrid, a Spanish national police source told CNN.

Portnov, 51, was shot several times as he was getting into a car around 9:15 a.m. local time in Madrid (3:15 a.m. ET), the police source said. Various assailants shot him in the back and the head, and later fled into a wooded area, the source said.

[Corvus]

Russia's birth rate has hit a record low, the worst it has been in 200 years of taking data. Of course, this being russia, their answer is to just classify most demographic data. Previously they had stopped reporting cause of death (to cover up how many were dying in Ukraine) but now they have just lumped all figures into one cumulative total where previously they had done so by region, age, gender etc. By 'official' figures the population is shrinking by 50,000 a month. Almost certainly it is much more.

Very reminiscent of russia in the past - back in 1937 a population census came in with lower than expected numbers (due to the Holodomor genocide in Ukraine and other issues.). The answer to the problem? Arrest, charge and execute those involved in taking the census.

[alach]

I think we are all aware of the reality of the war at this point. Even with the failing russian demographics and economy it doesn't look good for Ukraine. Russia is getting too much outside assistance now, I'm sure they wouldn't have been able to continue at this point if it and hadn't been for iran and North korea (and china?) But it is what it is.

Ukraine cannot expect to return Russian-occupied territories as long as Moscow has the resources to continue its war, Valerii Zaluzhnyi, former commander-in-chief and current ambassador to the U.K., said on May 22.

Speaking via video at a forum in Kyiv, Zaluzhnyi said that Ukraine can only wage a "high-tech war of survival" using a minimum of human and economic resources.

"Ukraine is not capable of (fighting) another war in terms of demography and economy, and we shouldn’t even entertain the thought," the ambassador added.

According to Zaluzhnyi, the only way to win the war is to destroy Russia's military and economic potential to wage it.

"I hope there is no one left in this hall still waiting for a miracle — for some white swan to bring peace to Ukraine, restore the borders of 1991 or 2022, and after that there will be great happiness in Ukraine," Zaluzhnyi said.

He believes that as long as Russia has the resources, manpower, and capability to strike Ukrainian territory and launch offensives, it will continue to do so.

Ukraine's leadership has consistently vowed to restore the country's 1991 borders, which includes the liberation of Crimea and parts of the Donbas occupied by Russia since 2014.

After the failed 2023 counteroffensive and U.S.'s foreign policy shift this year, Kyiv adjusted its rhetoric. President Volodymyr Zelensky said this February that Russia has to pull back its troops to at least the front line as it was before the 2022 invasion.

At this point I think the best deal that could be made is to freeze fighting and terrority. Then get Ukraine in NATO and the EU.

[Specialka]

I think we are all aware of the reality of the war at this point. Even with the failing russian demographics and economy it doesn't look good for Ukraine. Russia is getting too much outside assistance now, I'm sure they wouldn't have been able to continue at this point if it and hadn't been for iran and North korea (and china?) But it is what it is.



At this point I think the best deal that could be made is to freeze fighting and terrority. Then get Ukraine in NATO and the EU.

Why Ukraine should be in EU ? NATO I can get it, but why EU ?

[DarkTZeratul]

At this point I think the best deal that could be made is to freeze fighting and terrority. Then get Ukraine in NATO and the EU.

I think Ukraine would be willing to begrudgingly accept those conditions. The problem is Russia would never go for it, because their conditions have repeatedly been "we get all territory we own, and all territory we're contesting, and Ukraine is never allowed to defend itself or make alliances with anyone."

[alach]

Why Ukraine should be in EU ? NATO I can get it, but why EU ?

You can understand NATO, but not the EU? Strange. Thought those with issues with what I said would have chosen the other way around.
Pretty easy answer. It could be an economic powerhouse that honestly the EU really needs right now. Its rich in natural reasources, shares a coast and borders with many other EU counties, its already a candidate, and mostly because its citizens aspire to it and have for decades. Hopefully will replace that shithole hungary. (No offense Flarelaine, but you guys really need to drag your current leader to the curb.)

Or, if you don't want to take my word for it, heres some academics.

It’s clear to everyone that this country, in addition to being at war with Russia, faces dire economic difficulties. Does this mean that its accession to the EU would be negative for the other EU members? The reality is that Ukraine’s economic strengths should not be underestimated. Its agricultural sector is one of the world’s largest grain exporters, which paradoxically constitutes one of the main hurdles for its integration into the EU. Furthermore, its population is well-educated in areas such as engineering and computer science, leading to up to 45 percent of Ukraine’s service exports being in ICT. The EU’s share of ICT over its service exports does not even reach 17 percent.

Wealth in natural resources is also crucial. Ukraine’s reserves would allow Europe to reduce its dependence on China for critical raw materials, especially titanium and tungsten (see Figure 3 of this paper if you want to get a sense of Europe’s dependency on China in some critical raw materials). Its arrival would also strengthen gas storage capabilities. The assurance of gas supply this winter is primarily due to Europe’s utilisation of Ukraine’s gas storage capacity. Access to this infrastructure, facilitated by its government, is another step of Ukraine’s integration into the European energy market and promotes the stabilisation of gas prices for Europe.

Analysis comparing Ukraine’s current economy and demography with the one from the Central and Eastern European Countries when they entered the EU offers a similar conclusion. From an economic standpoint, the challenge of Ukraine’s membership isn’t one that the EU has not already confronted and overcome.

A new enlargement will require adapting some of the EU’s rules before the arrival of new countries, such as expanding policies approved by qualified majority voting, including foreign and defence, and reforms of the common agricultural and cohesion policies. These are not easy reforms to undertake. Nor are the ones that candidate countries are implementing to meet the requirements that every future member state must fulfil.

It’s important to keep in mind that, in both cases, the benefits for European citizens, members or potential members of the EU, are tangible: faster economic growth, deeper social integration, and elevated democratic standards. Once part of the Union, candidate countries will have access to the single market and will benefit from public and private investments, with which they could accelerate their economic convergence towards levels of welfare similar to the European average.

[Specialka]

You can understand NATO, but not the EU? Strange. Thought those with issues with what I said would have chosen the other way around.
Pretty easy answer. It could be an economic powerhouse that honestly the EU really needs right now. Its rich in natural reasources, shares a coast and borders with many other EU counties, its already a candidate, and mostly because its citizens aspire to it and have for decades. Hopefully will replace that shithole hungary. (No offense Flarelaine, but you guys really need to drag your current leader to the curb.)

They need to be defended, NATO is a defensive alliance. Would make sense. Far less for EU to me. The country is extremely corrupted and in need of reconstruction. Should it be EU responsability to do so ?

[Neufab]

They need to be defended, NATO is a defensive alliance. Would make sense. Far less for EU to me. The country is extremely corrupted and in need of reconstruction. Should it be EU responsability to do so ?

How does that make Ukraine special?

Several current EU nations were also just that prior to becoming EU members and you know some even after joining…such as Greece.

So what exactly is your “special” problem here?

[alach]

Ukraine has been fighting corruption for years. Its symptomatic of decades of soviet rule and is rife across the former USSR countries and former satellites. It would be hypocritical to denounce Ukraine for corruption and pass over Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary - who are still having issues with the fundamentals of democracy, but change is happening gradually and I think the heads of the EU are aware that it takes time and its better to be a member of a community that is for democracy and liberal values than let a country like Ukraine slip in to the orbit of russia - or if let be, to allow corruption and crime to run rampant to the point of actively threatening western Europe.
There has been great success stories as well, with the Baltics, once under the iron curtain and corrupt as well, now thriving and prosperous as a member of the European Union and community. I believe Ukraine would follow their example instead of Bulgaria's and Romania's when they finally become a member state, as they share a lot of similarities with those countries.

And wow, want to talk corruption? Take a look over there at the trump thread, at this rate America is going to make putin's russia look like a shining beacon of freedom and liberty before his term is out.

[Specialka]

How does that make Ukraine special?

Several current EU nations were also just that prior to becoming EU members and you know some even after joining…such as Greece.

So what exactly is your “special” problem here?

Several countries were as corrupted and devastated as Ukraine before joining ? Please, which one ?

And obviouly, Ukraine has the rights to apply to EU. I am still against them joining the EU as they are (and it would need a lot of time and a lot of money to put them back together, time and money I would prefer to be invested in EU rather than on them).

- - - Updated - - -

Ukraine has been fighting corruption for years. Its symptomatic of decades of soviet rule and is rife across the former USSR countries and former satellites. It would be hypocritical to denounce Ukraine for corruption and pass over Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary - who are still having issues with the fundamentals of democracy, but change is happening gradually and I think the heads of the EU are aware that it takes time and its better to be a member of a community that is for democracy and liberal values than let a country like Ukraine slip in to the orbit of russia - or if let be, to allow corruption and crime to run rampant to the point of actively threatening western Europe.
There has been great success stories as well, with the Baltics, once under the iron curtain and corrupt as well, now thriving and prosperous as a member of the European Union and community. I believe Ukraine would follow their example instead of Bulgaria's and Romania's when they finally become a member state, as they share a lot of similarities with those countries.

And wow, want to talk corruption? Take a look over there at the trump thread, at this rate America is going to make putin's russia look like a shining beacon of freedom and liberty before his term is out.

Do not worry, I was also against ex soviet country to join the UE. But as we know, it is very difficult to kick a country out of UE once they are in. So I would very much prefer to not have another corrupted ex-soviet country to join.

[Neufab]

Several countries were as corrupted and devastated as Ukraine before joining ? Please, which one ?

And obviouly, Ukraine has the rights to apply to EU. I am still against them joining the EU as they are (and it would need a lot of time and a lot of money to put them back together, time and money I would prefer to be invested in EU rather than on them).

I already mentioned Greece which was solidly corrupted until recently and for which the EU has paid for a ton of infrastructure...I think you are greek right? Ever notice all those signs thanking the EU for paying for this road?

[Specialka]

I already mentioned Greece which was solidly corrupted until recently and for which the EU has paid for a ton of infrastructure...I think you are greek right? Ever notice all those signs thanking the EU for paying for this road?

Nope, I am French with a capital F. And I do think that Greece should not have joined. I am all for going back to what UE was at its creation. Either that or going full federation and unite all country in UE as one.

[Azadina]

Several countries were as corrupted and devastated as Ukraine before joining ? Please, which one ?

And obviouly, Ukraine has the rights to apply to EU. I am still against them joining the EU as they are (and it would need a lot of time and a lot of money to put them back together, time and money I would prefer to be invested in EU rather than on them).

And I'm very much against ruZZki sympathizing traitors remaining in EU, mooching off it. I'd rather have the time and money being invested on non traitors.

For the time being, it sadly doesn't look like my wish will come to pass either.

[Specialka]

And I'm very much against ruZZki sympathizing traitors remaining in EU, mooching off it. I'd rather have the time and money being invested on non traitors.

For the time being, it sadly doesn't look like my wish will come to pass either.

That's sad, I am very much to gift them a trip there and see if they like it as they seem very attached to defend it. But we are still in democracy over here so there is that.

That still does not mean that Ukraine should belong in UE.

[Vampiregenesis]

I already mentioned Greece which was solidly corrupted until recently and for which the EU has paid for a ton of infrastructure...I think you are greek right? Ever notice all those signs thanking the EU for paying for this road?

Yeah and all of our factories and production sectors have died and we are a tourism country only now, also the brain drain that ruined many sectors. I'm not an economist, I don't really know if the EU has been a good thing for my country, I don't believe so, a larger market access is good only if you are competitive enough to sell on it and a country as small as my own should take protection measures to maintain some quality of life for the locals and also controlling the currency is a very important tool too. Corruption is one of the reasons we entered in the EU so that the politicians can do as they please with the backing of the likes of Germany, they have already almost sell the entire country to Germany. I would prefer my country to be like Israel or UK, not part of any Union but strong relationship with them.

Our country is still corrupted, even after the crisis, you are deluded if you think that corruption is a problem for the EU, the EU is looking for yes men and then there are geopolitical interests. The Ukraine case probably is not beneficial enough for the EU and carries burdens that the EU is not willing to carry.

[Kaleredar]

Yeah and all of our factories and production sectors have died and we are a tourism country only now, also the brain drain that ruined many sectors. I'm not an economist, I don't really know if the EU has been a good thing for my country, I don't believe so, a larger market access is good only if you are competitive enough to sell on it and a country as small as my own should take protection measures to maintain some quality of life for the locals and also controlling the currency is a very important tool too. Corruption is one of the reasons we entered in the EU so that the politicians can do as they please with the backing of the likes of Germany, they have already almost sell the entire country to Germany. I would prefer my country to be like Israel or UK, not part of any Union but strong relationship with them.

Our country is still corrupted, even after the crisis, you are deluded if you think that corruption is a problem for the EU, the EU is looking for yes men and then there are geopolitical interests. The Ukraine case probably is not beneficial enough for the EU and carries burdens that the EU is not willing to carry.

The EU benefits by not having Ukraine taken over as a Russian puppet state, much in the same way that Ukraine benefits from Ukraine not being taken over as a Russian puppet state.

I’d say their goals are very much aligned in that regard.

[alach]

I'd like to title this news story
Old Man Yells at Clouds

U.S. President Donald Trump voiced strong disapproval of Russia’s weekend bombardment of Ukraine, telling reporters that he's "not happy with Putin."
"He's killing a lot of people," Trump said to reporters at an airport in New Jersey before returning to Washington on May 25. "I don't know what the hell happened to Putin, I've known him for a long time..."

Trump lashes out at ‘crazy’ Putin after deadly Russian air raids on Ukraine, to which the Kremlin reponded,

"We are really grateful to the Americans and to President Trump personally for their assistance in organising and launching this negotiation process," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said when asked about the Trump remarks about Putin.
"Of course, at the same time, this is a very crucial moment, which is associated, of course, with the emotional overload of everyone absolutely and with emotional reactions."

And I could make jokes, but it is actually pretty serious, and this is now the third night of attacks and last night russia launches record 355 drones at Ukraine; 6 killed, 24 injured over past 24 hours

In the war’s biggest air assault yet, Russia launched 367 drones and missiles on Ukrainian cities overnight, killing at least 12, as Trump declared: Putin “has gone absolutely CRAZY!”

"This was a combined, ruthless strike aimed at civilians. The enemy once again showed that its goal is fear and death," he wrote on Telegram.

The assault comes as Ukraine and Russia prepared to conduct the third and final day of a prisoner swap in which both sides will exchange a total of 1000 people each.

US Special Envoy to Ukraine Keith Kellogg said on Sunday the attack was "a clear violation" of the 1977 Geneva Peace Protocols and called for an immediate ceasefire.

I still have my fingers crossed that trump actually wants to help the American economy, and continues to manufacture weapons for Ukraine. Its the lesser of the evils at this point and if it takes selfish reasoning for him to do it, then let it be. I don't have much faith in him doing the right thing for any reason, unfortuately.