Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Doomcookie]

Yeah and the rent in the capital is above 50% of the minimum wage so that the German can buy or rent houses in Greece in the great free EU economy. Our groceries cost MORE than Germany's even though they have much better wages because our production have died and we import everything again thanks to the great free EU economy.

Is our country a failure? if you compare it to the best ones in the EU then sure we are a failure, we can't compete with them and this is precisely why we should not be in the EU, the country would be much more functional without it. See a country like Norway, they are realistic and stay out of the EU because that would hurt their interests and thanks to this they enjoy a high quality of life because they don't allow better countries to compete with them.

Of course there is some merit with staying in the EU, they are pushing us to become more competitive and sell, it's not only about accounting and debt, you have to sell something to get some value out of this EU market. Not sure if the long term benefit is worth the sacrifices that we are making now. We are still stuck with Tourism, there are some attempts in the energy sector but it doesn't seem to work yet. Not sure where that will lead in the future.

Capitalist Economy is like Poker, you thrive when your opponents are worse, not better. You don't want to sit in a market with better opponents.

Why are you blaming someone else for your personal failures?

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We are not being blown up because we have one of the strongest armies in Europe and NATO, we are overpaying for our army something that other EU countries don't have to deal with. Also we don't push our agenda even when its legal to do so. EG. we don't extend our territorial waters even though international law allow us to do so. If we try to push like Zelensky did with NATO then our cities will blow up too. We are smart enough to understand that its not worth destroying our country over something like this, at least not yet. I don't know if we get crazy and push in the future, it's possible.

Meanwhile some EU countries (see Spain) are major exporters of arms to those who threaten us. Not sure how the EU alliance helps here.

have you thought about asking Russia to invade your country?

[Mayhem]

Norway:

1. Not part of Common Fisheries Policy (full control over waters and fishing)
2. Full control over gas and oil sectors
3. More political autonomy - doesn't have to cooperate with the EU foreign policy and migration/tax laws
4. Full control over its currency

In exchange it loses voting power and influence (who cares about that?)

Basically Norway only accepts the part of EU that suits its interests.

There would be several negative effects from going bankrupt, I'm not an economist to talk about them but I'm pretty sure we could handle them. As someone said all of this happened so that the rich and politicians will avoid short-term "hardship", the rest suffered a great deal anyway. We still suffer from this with underfunded hospitals etc.

A healthy leadership would have never allowed Greece in the EU. The EU is not the United States, it is just an open capitalist market, if you benefit from it then you stay, if you don't then you leave. Not sure what is so hard to understand here.

Well, Greece hid debt to be able to join, so a healthy leadership wouldn't have lied, true.

Greece's GDP more than doubled within 6 years after joining the EU. Your country's leadership just fucked up with the debt and working with banks that went bust in 2008. Joining the EU was an impressive boost to Greece's economy.

You really think you would've fared better without oil and gas reserves next to one of the largest trading blocks? Your agriculture sector couldn't compete with countries within the EU because of trading barriers so that sector would've been fucked regardless, but what else did you have back then?

[Gabriel]

We are not being blown up because we have one of the strongest armies in Europe and NATO, we are overpaying for our army something that other EU countries don't have to deal with. Also we don't push our agenda even when its legal to do so. EG. we don't extend our territorial waters even though international law allow us to do so. If we try to push like Zelensky did with NATO then our cities will blow up too. We are smart enough to understand that its not worth destroying our country over something like this, at least not yet. I don't know if we get crazy and push in the future, it's possible.

Meanwhile some EU countries (see Spain) are major exporters of arms to those who threaten us. Not sure how the EU alliance helps here.

Are you Ulmita or do you just complain a lot like him?

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Are you Bulgarian?

These days, Bulgaria is a better country to live than Greece. Bulgarians have more purchasing power than we do, yes they have lower wages but the cost of living is adjusted to this.

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Norway is not a full member so that its crucial sectors are not hurt by the EU policies. They play smart.

Norway has fuck-you money from oil so they can do what the hell ever they want. It doesn't have anything to do with them playing smart or not.

[Saradain]

Are you Ulmita or do you just complain a lot like him?

I'm still waiting for that lawsuit to appear. At this point, the embarrasement level is high enough that we'll never see him again, no vatnikmancy can summon him.

If I'm proven wrong, can always ask about the lawsuit...

[Kaleredar]

I lost the plot on how “Greece faced economic perils in the past” equates to “Russia should be allowed to burn Ukraine to the ground” over the past few pages, can anyone catch me up?

[alach]

I lost the plot on how “Greece faced economic perils in the past” equates to “Russia should be allowed to burn Ukraine to the ground” over the past few pages, can anyone catch me up?

Its like how vegans will never miss a chance to tell you they are vegans, anti-EU folks will never miss a chance to shit on the EU.

Anyways, in war news;
After 3 days of consecutive attacks on Ukraine, Russia calls UN meeting over alleged European 'threats to peace'(lol)

And today Zelesnky was in Germany making deals, and though it doesn't look like he will be leaving with Taurus missiles, (the public is against that) he isn't leaving empty handed.
Germany and Ukraine will jointly produce long-range missiles for Kyiv to use in its fight against Russia, the country's two leaders have announced - immediately drawing criticism from the Kremlin.

Zelenskyy thanks Germany for aid and weapons help
With Germany promising to back long-range missile production in Ukraine and put together an aid package, Volodymyr Zelenskyy has thanked the chancellor for today's talks.

"Germany is among the global leaders in supporting Ukraine and the rules-based international order," he posted on social media in the past few minutes.

"These rules must be preserved so that normal life for people can be preserved as well.

"That is exactly what we discussed today: our shared diplomacy, our common security, and our joint projects with Germany."

Addressing the chancellor, Friedrich Merz, he added it is "crucial that we are working together to bring peace closer and provide greater security for our people".

And heres some confirmation from the Kremlin to which we have long expected,
Exclusive: Putin's demands for peace include an end to NATO enlargement, sources say

MOSCOW, May 28 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin's conditions for ending the war in Ukraine include a demand that Western leaders pledge in writing to stop enlarging NATO eastwards and lift a chunk of sanctions on Russia, according to three Russian sources with knowledge of the negotiations.
U.S. President Donald Trump has repeatedly said he wants to end the deadliest European conflict since World War Two and has shown increasing frustration with Putin in recent days, warning on Tuesday the Russian leader was "playing with fire" by refusing to engage in ceasefire talks with Kyiv as his forces made gains on the battlefield.

No surprises there. Sorry putin, I know it will insult your "greatness" but you aren't to tell other countries what they can or can not do at the end of a rifle.

Fun fact for people who were unaware. Back in the 90s Ukraine had the 3rd largest supply of nuclear missiles in the world. Then russia, the UK, and the States got together to work out a deal that would leave Ukraine a nuclear free state, in exchange for, and quote,

to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

Which is why to this day we have the term that is 100% real and not just made up by some guy;

Russian Handshake
The act of shaking hands as if greeting an individual in which you then whip out a machete with your free hand and lop his gripped hand off at the wrist. You may then do what you wish with the hand.

[Poopymonster]

I lost the plot on how “Greece faced economic perils in the past” equates to “Russia should be allowed to burn Ukraine to the ground” over the past few pages, can anyone catch me up?

Greece's economy would have been utter shit if not for the EU but would have miraculously recovered with sunshine, straight rainbows, and blowjobs for all Greeks because rEaSoNs.
Russia should be allowed to pillage Ukraine without interference because...Russia's economy is in the shitter without an EU to drag them into...something...?
So we should let them annex Ukraine because, because when Russia comes out the other side everything will be sunshine, straight rainbows, and blowjobs for all Russians because..rEaSoNs.

Possibly they think they will be paid for posting by getting some of those blowjobs for Russians?
They want to be the one giving blowjobs for Russians? (Not gonna yuck your yums)

[Bwgmon]

Anyways, in war news;
After 3 days of consecutive attacks on Ukraine, Russia calls UN meeting over alleged European 'threats to peace'(lol)

Love the vibe that it's okay for Russia to phone friends to help, but it's cheating if Ukraine follows suit.

Putin is such a pussy. Maybe he shouldn't have started that 3-day operation.

[Mayhem]

I lost the plot on how “Greece faced economic perils in the past” equates to “Russia should be allowed to burn Ukraine to the ground” over the past few pages, can anyone catch me up?

Easy, everything is the EU's fault (that includes national shit like whatever Greece did and international shit like whatever Russia decides is the current excuse for their military excursions into neighboring countries). Also, people don't want to participate in EU elections, and whatever the EU does, despite being run by a right-wing coalition except in the 90s, it's always the left's fault.

[Gabriel]

Love the vibe that it's okay for Russia to phone friends to help, but it's cheating if Ukraine follows suit.

Putin is such a pussy. Maybe he shouldn't have started that 3-day operation.

If the boy-who-cries-wolf continues to cry wolf daily for years with no end in sight, there comes a point where the moral impetus shifts from blaming the boy for crying wolf, to blaming the people in the village for not killing the boy sooner.

[Vampiregenesis]

I lost the plot on how “Greece faced economic perils in the past” equates to “Russia should be allowed to burn Ukraine to the ground” over the past few pages, can anyone catch me up?

I normally wouldn't post here but my country was mentioned numerous times, some were saying that Ukraine should join the EU even though they are corrupted because we were corrupted too when we joined and then some commented how we should never be in the EU and we didn't deserve such "blessing".

My answers to them:

1. Yes we were corrupted and still are but we didn't need the EU and we were never asked through a referendum if we want to join like Norway did, Greek citizens sleepwalked into EU and Eurozone in an age without internet and without knowing the importance of these things. Back then I doubt anyone here could even name one EU official, we learned their names during the crisis, in fact it was then that we learned what the EU and Eurozone are. You know that a country is corrupted when it doesn't ask and inform its citizens when it comes to so important matters.

2. EU did not save Greece, we endured 10 years of intense suffering that we never experienced before, the side effects of this are still here, many sectors are underfunded, lots of educated people have left the country. Going bankrupt would not make the suffering that much worse for the low class. Even today, the country experience severe problems such as demographics, housing etc. We don't live in a paradise that many seem to think. We could fix our country and recover even without the EU bailouts. The price would be heavier for some but we could do it.

3. EU membership will not help Ukraine at any level, especially defeating Russia, EU is a market, nothing else. The EU countries are already supporting Ukraine with everything they can. None in Greece think that the EU will help us in a future conflict that's why we invest a ton on the military, we always have the mentality that we will deal with our problems alone. Does Ukraine invest enough? they don't even have an airforce and ask to get F-16 from others while we have one of the best airforce if not the best in NATO. That's not a EU thing, it's more of a mentality and tradition one.

Greece and Ukraine are two different cases and people here shouldn't compare them. Ukrainians hate Russia due to past events and view the EU and Germany as the antidote to it, they think that EU is a paradise of money and democracy that will liberate them from Russia, they name their battalions after Nazi units in WW2 such as edelweiss and they carry flags with Nazi symbols. They view Russia as something very underdeveloped and oppressive that hold them back from achieving greatness and on the other hand they view Germany as something advanced that will bring them freedom and prosperity. That's why they love the Nazis so much, they view them as liberators from the bad oppressive soviets that steal their hard work and keep them down.

There is no such thing in Greece, if someone name a battalion after a foreign unit and carry a foreign flag (especially Nazi ones), he will go in jail and he will stay there for a long time, it will bring great dishonor to Greeks. The Greeks were never that enthusiast to join the EU let alone starting a revolution for it like Ukraine did, most Greeks who knew what was that about opposed it, the others were indifferent. The Greeks don't idolize anyone, they view all the same. We have a long history and we have gone through many cycles of self-destruction and rebirth before, that's why the phoenix is considered one of our holiest animals, we associate it with ourselves and state. We would definitely survive without the EU during the crisis, we have survived far worse before. For those who say that we prefer Russia, we fought a bloody civil war after WW2 where we defeated the communists and avoided joining the Warsaw Pact, so no, we don't like Russia either, we like one thing, ourselves. I want my country to be like UK, Japan or Israel, a developed country without a master. That would bring pride to the citizens and make them work much harder and be more responsible for what they are doing.

There is a fundamental difference between our country and Ukraine, Ukrainians definitely fight for a side and view that side as something great and the other as something bad, the Greeks have always been alone in their history, we have never fought for a side but only for ourselves and we have muscled down far bigger enemies completely alone. There is not a mentality here that we have specific friends and specific enemies.

[Calfredd]

I normally wouldn't post here but my country was mentioned numerous times, some were saying that Ukraine should join the EU even though they are corrupted because we were corrupted too when we joined and then some commented how we should never be in the EU and we didn't deserve such "blessing".

You know we can see post histories so you don't need to lie.

[Corvus]

If you are shilling for russia and complaining about money, there is now 3.2 million rubles available in sign up bonuses in parts of russia to meet their quotas.

While much of the world has got inflation back under control, and have seen interest rates also go down, neither has happened in russia due to throwing huge sums of money at the war effort.

[Breccia]

And Putin basically says, "we have not agreed to anything, not even when we will talk about a ceasefire or truce."

Putin's demands for peace include an end to NATO enlargement, sources say

President Vladimir Putin's conditions for ending the war in Ukraine include a demand that Western leaders pledge in writing to stop enlarging NATO eastwards and lift a chunk of sanctions on Russia, according to three Russian sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

The three Russian sources said Putin wants a "written" pledge by major Western powers not to enlarge the U.S.-led NATO alliance eastwards - shorthand for formally ruling out membership to Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova and other former Soviet republics.

Russia also wants Ukraine to be neutral, some Western sanctions lifted, a resolution of the issue of frozen Russian sovereign assets in the West, and protection for Russian speakers in Ukraine, the three sources said.

The first source said that, if Putin realizes he is unable to reach a peace deal on his own terms, he will seek to show the Ukrainians and the Europeans by military victories that "peace tomorrow will be even more painful".

The Kremlin did not respond to a request for comment on Reuters' reporting.

So, Putin is demanding removal of the sanctions he brought upon himself for invading a sovereign country, obviously makes no sense in any reasonable viewpoint but it makes sense he'd ask for it. It's interesting that he wants a pre-emptive "no" from NATO about Georgia, though. They asked in 2008 and then nothing ever happened. Is Putin worried that suddenly NATO will push Georgia in?

Also, it's not listed here, but I don't see Putin ending the war unless he's allowed to keep large chunks of Ukraine for himself. Not sure why it wouldn't be on the list, because if Putin's willing to back out of Ukraine, that's pretty damning evidence he knows he's going to lose anyhow and just wants to make it look like a deliberate choice.

That threat at the end feels like a bullying attempt. If Putin could have crushed Ukraine into submission so simply, it would have happened by now.

[alach]

Putin's demands for peace include an end to NATO enlargement, sources say



So, Putin is demanding removal of the sanctions he brought upon himself for invading a sovereign country, obviously makes no sense in any reasonable viewpoint but it makes sense he'd ask for it.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Lets be forthright and honest here or people will accuse us of bad faith. Putin only got most of his sanctions by invading a sovereign country. The others came from shooting down a private airliner, continuously getting caught cheating at the Olympics, assassinating private citizens in quiet peaceful English towns and around the world. Among other stuff.

[Corvus]

He can't stop the war. Russia has switched to a war time economy, and it is experiencing a massive shortage of workers with more and more being recruited to fill dead boots.

Stopping the war collapses russia's economy.

[Breccia]

The others came from shooting down a private airliner, continuously getting caught cheating at the Olympics, assassinating private citizens in quiet peaceful English towns and around the world. Among other stuff.

That is an excellent point. Putin has a long history of being the worst of humanity, but competent.

Stopping the war collapses russia's economy.

That's an excellent point as well. Do you think that Putin is making unrealistic demands, believing they'll be rejected, because he flat-out can't backtrack? Because I assumed it was arrogance.

[alach]

If you have the time, here is a good video about putin's motivations, one I actually greed. I always assumed he did it for greed, but it could be much deeper than that.

[Santti]

Putin's demands for peace include an end to NATO enlargement, sources say

Sure. Let's give him what he wants, and treat any promises made with the same seriousness Russia treats the Budapest Memorandum with.

[Kaleredar]

Sure. Let's give him what he wants, and treat any promises made with the same seriousness Russia treats the Budapest Memorandum with.

Funnily enough, NATO was smaller before this whole fiasco and only grew because of Russia’s “actions taken over concern due to NATO growing.”