Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Huehuecoyotl]

Nothing like seeing 3 pages of new discussion about the Ukraine war, only to discover that there is literally zero discussion about the actual conflict. Trolls get fatter when you feed them.

[Wilian]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Austria - 89% are German speakers. You can't call a country a melting pot just because of few foreigners who are mostly assimilated anyway. It's obvious that your demographics will change now with the free movement within EE especially since Austria is one of the best if not the best country to live in.

Demographics in Greece have probably changed too but since those foreigners who buy property here do not live here but only come for vacations they are not counted in the demographics of the country.

Funny fact - Austria was one of the countries that had a very tough stance on immigration and didn't cooperate at all to resolve this issue, it didn't accept any refugees. It's well known as one of the most racist countries in Europe. While it supported the financial aid to our country, we had some tensions with them over the refugee crisis back then. Most white nationalists who come in Greece are Austrians, there were some in our border along with other nationalist teams when Erdogan was trying to swarm Greece with refugees and failed.

Your russophilic ethnonazism isn't pretty, really. You should immigrate to somewhere else from Europe preferably.

[Mayhem]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Austria - 89% are German speakers. You can't call a country a melting pot just because of few foreigners who are mostly assimilated anyway. It's obvious that your demographics will change now with the free movement within EE especially since Austria is one of the best if not the best country to live in.

Demographics in Greece have probably changed too but since those foreigners who buy property here do not live here but only come for vacations they are not counted in the demographics of the country.

Funny fact - Austria was one of the countries that had a very tough stance on immigration and didn't cooperate at all to resolve this issue, it didn't accept any refugees. It's well known as one of the most racist countries in Europe. While it supported the financial aid to our country, we had some tensions with them over the refugee crisis back then. Most white nationalists who come in Greece are Austrians, there were some in our border along with other nationalist teams when Erdogan was trying to swarm Greece with refugees and failed.

Austria was one of the most diverse countries before the two world wars, that 89% speak the same language doesn't say shit. 73% of Austrians speak english, what do you make of that? More than 40% of Viennese are foreigners and Vienna is ranking top spots year-by-year in most livable city rankings.

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Nothing like seeing 3 pages of new discussion about the Ukraine war, only to discover that there is literally zero discussion about the actual conflict. Trolls get fatter when you feed them.

Well, apart from Ukraine bombing stuff in Russia, what's new?

[Vampiregenesis]

Trump still believes that he can stop the war in Ukraine. His ultimatum ends tomorrow, lets see what he is going to do. I personally think that a Russia-NATO confrontation is inevitable, it will take time but it will definitely happen because the war in Ukraine can't stop, all wars of this magnitude and importance stop the same way, if you defeat the enemy on the battlefield. Ukrainians alone can't defeat the Russians on the battlefield so someone else will have to do it, this sub doesn't like this reality but it is what it is.

[alach]

Yeah, well, pointless diversions aside, heres some news...
The headline...
Is Trump About to End the War in Ukraine? Bold Meetings in the Works seem to contridict what is actually happening on the ground;
Russia is moving to split and cut off this Ukrainian city with about 2,000 residents living in its southern island (video)
And...
Russia hit key Ukraine gas interconnector to undermine preparation for winter, Kyiv says
KYIV, Aug 6 (Reuters) - Russia has struck a gas pumping station in Ukraine's southern Odesa region used in a scheme to import LNG from the U.S. and Azerbaijan, undermining preparations for winter, Ukrainian officials said on Wednesday.

President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said the gas infrastructure had been attacked in the village of Novosilske on the border with Romania, where the Orlovka interconnector, through which Ukraine receives gas via the Transbalkan route, is located.

And a couple quotes..

Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Russia seemed “more inclined to a ceasefire” after a visit to Moscow on Wednesday by a US envoy. “The pressure on them works. But the main thing is that they do not deceive us in the details – neither us nor the US,” Ukraine’s president said in his nightly address.

Despite the engagement, sanctions targeting Russian oil “are still expected to be implemented on Friday”, a senior Trump administration official said on Wednesday, according to Reuters. Separately, Marco Rubio, the US secretary of state, said he did not want to exaggerate the progress made during Steve Witkoff’s talks with Putin. Many “impediments” remained, especially Russia’s territorial claims, and there was no concrete proposal for a ceasefire. There have been unconfirmed reports that the Kremlin could propose a halt to long-range strikes by both sides.

via the Guardian

[Azadina]

Trump still believes that he can stop the war in Ukraine. His ultimatum ends tomorrow, lets see what he is going to do. I personally think that a Russia-NATO confrontation is inevitable, it will take time but it will definitely happen because the war in Ukraine can't stop, all wars of this magnitude and importance stop the same way, if you defeat the enemy on the battlefield. Ukrainians alone can't defeat the Russians on the battlefield so someone else will have to do it, this sub doesn't like this reality but it is what it is.

Nice of you to admit, that you get your horseshit from some looney land reddits.

[Gabriel]

These are all Greek dialects, not different languages. Some few propagandists thought of Macedonians as half-barbarian for personal reasons, the majority accepted them and they participated on the Olympic games. (only Greeks could do that). Most ancient sources refer to them as Hellenes.

States are modern inventions, even then Greece is one of the first ones. That doesn't mean there is not continuity between ancient times and now. We speak the Greek language, we have the same history, we identify the same way. If there is a demographic change in the country, the people will react angrily to this but this is true for all the European states, most European states are also modern but they have their own history/culture/continuity. It's like me trying to claim that the Vikings are not of Scandinavian origin and the native citizens of these countries are not Germanic and not related to them. How would you feel about that? Europeans like to mess with the Greek history until you mess with their own.

Either way, I don't care if Greece becomes USA/Canada/London, a multicultural place without a specific ethnic identification, what I care the most is the economy, foreigners should not be able to mess with the locals' purchasing power, someone from a different country who has x4 times your wage should not be able to purchase homes so easily in your country. The locals should come first, it doesn't matter if they share the same ethnicity or not.

One last thing, Ukrainians are also homogenous with a shared history/language/beliefs, if lets say Ukraine was like USA or Canada, you wouldn't see them fight and die in the battlefield, the way they do. The exact same thing applies to Russians. Don't tell me that people from USA/Canada etc, don't understand this. If you view Ukraine the same way you view the US then you don't really understand this conflict. Ethnonationalism/racism is huge in both of these countries.

This is literally "Aryan people consist of ONLY people with X, Y and Z phenotypes, except when we want to include A or B or C... or if we want to exclude people with X, Y and Z that also have D or E or F..."-tier Nazi mental gymnastics.

[DarkTZeratul]

This is literally "Aryan people consist of ONLY people with X, Y and Z phenotypes, except when we want to include A or B or C... or if we want to exclude people with X, Y and Z that also have D or E or F..."-tier Nazi mental gymnastics.

"No true Grecian"?

[Neufab]

It doesn't matter, we won't make any difference at all, we are not the Greece of ww1/ww2, back then the morale was high, now it's different, it's not even a country anymore. In the village that I live, a huge amount of property has been bought by Germans, it will soon be Germany. My neighbors (right next to my house) speak German. I hear them everyday. It's like the Frankish Greece, now they don't come as crusaders but as tourists, the result is the same, we still serve them. We can't afford to go to the same places as them, there are tourist only restaurants/hotels now. None here is going to fight for Europe or even for his/her own country. We don't care anymore. We are just space. We have a strong army in paper but only there.

Ukraine is different, it's a big country with people that have been cultivated in a nationalist environment, the nationalist/anti-Russian element in Ukraine is huge, Ukrainians believe that the Russians are the absolute devil (see holodomor). Ukraine has a military culture overall and the people there can endure hardship because they have a history of being poor. Do you think the other westerners have the same willpower/morale to go in the trenches and die a pointless death when they have grown in a woke/anti-military environment enjoying a high quality of life? I doubt it, it's not only about military capabilities but also psychology.

Not many will go in the battlefield and sacrifice themselves the way Ukrainians do. The modern battlefield is terrifying with drones flying around and extreme amounts of fire power. Psychology is HUGE factor here. I believe if Ukraine lose, some of the rest countries will fall fast. NATO means USA intervention, it won't happen with Trump, not even the US want to face the Russians.

I can actually see Germans doing something, they have also grown in a liberal/woke society with huge wages etc but they have a history of being disciplined and follow orders, so maybe if they still have this element, I can actually see a German going in the trenches and die if he is told to do it.

What a load of fcking nonsense. Your brain has been completely fucked up by rabid rightwing bullshit propaganda dude.

I'm danish, one of the on paper richest countries in the EU and guess what? you greeks you live in bigger houses and drive larger cars than we do here because our taxrate is vastly higher than yours, and our retirement age can't even begin to compare. Ever see all those "This road was donated by the EU" signs? That's nothern european, most of all german, tax money spent there and you think you serve us...

I happen to love Greece and (non rabid rightwing) greek people so I visit once or twice a year which means I can also tell you that a lot of greek people live at the same hotels and dine at the same places I do.

As for your take on Ukraine it's more bullshit, taken right out of Putins playbook.

There's no cultivated nationalistic environment outside of small population of rabid rightwingers, who just happens to be the same a-holes allover the world -YOU.
In fact there was generally very little anti-russian sentiment in the Ukranian population prior to Fascist-Russia assaulting the country and commiting unspeakable warcrimes as life in Ukraine was a lot better during the USSR era than it was for many many years after the USSR fell and I can say this with absolute authority because I have it from my wife who is a formerly pro-russian Ukrainian with a Russian family name who was born and grew up in western most nationalistic part of Ukraine.

Which authority told you that your BS take on Ukraine is right?

[alach]

In fact there was generally very little anti-russian sentiment in the Ukranian population prior to Fascist-Russia assaulting the country and commiting unspeakable warcrimes as life in Ukraine was a lot better during the USSR era than it was for many many years after the USSR fell and I can say this with absolute authority because I have it from my wife who is a formerly pro-russian Ukrainian with a Russian family name who was born and grew up in western most nationalistic part of Ukraine.

Which authority told you that your BS take on Ukraine is right?

She would be from the parts that were seized and stolen first then? I hope her family is ok. How does she feel about the situation now?

[Vampiregenesis]

What a load of fcking nonsense. Your brain has been completely fucked up by rabid rightwing bullshit propaganda dude.

I'm danish, one of the on paper richest countries in the EU and guess what? you greeks you live in bigger houses and drive larger cars than we do here because our taxrate is vastly higher than yours, and our retirement age can't even begin to compare. Ever see all those "This road was donated by the EU" signs? That's nothern european, most of all german, tax money spent there and you think you serve us...

I happen to love Greece and (non rabid rightwing) greek people so I visit once or twice a year which means I can also tell you that a lot of greek people live at the same hotels and dine at the same places I do.

As for your take on Ukraine it's more bullshit, taken right out of Putins playbook.

There's no cultivated nationalistic environment outside of small population of rabid rightwingers, who just happens to be the same a-holes allover the world -YOU.
In fact there was generally very little anti-russian sentiment in the Ukranian population prior to Fascist-Russia assaulting the country and commiting unspeakable warcrimes as life in Ukraine was a lot better during the USSR era than it was for many many years after the USSR fell and I can say this with absolute authority because I have it from my wife who is a formerly pro-russian Ukrainian with a Russian family name who was born and grew up in western most nationalistic part of Ukraine.

Which authority told you that your BS take on Ukraine is right?

Guess what, you can easily buy a house in Greece. I can't buy a house in Denmark just as easily working from here. Sure, there are rich Greeks, primarily among those who left the country during the crisis, these made careers and a lot of money in the countries they went. Not all of us have this luxury. Since you visit this country, go to non-tourist areas and speak with the locals, ask them how they feel about the economy. As for Russia, I don't think the nationalist element is only among a small population, the areas that had pro-Russian population have fallen without much resistance.

Anyway, I'm trying to get back to the thread's subject since I already posted a lot of offtopic stuff.

[Gabriel]

Guess what, you can easily buy a house in Greece. I can't buy a house in Denmark just as easily working from here. Sure, there are rich Greeks, primarily among those who left the country during the crisis, these made careers and a lot of money in the countries they went. Not all of us have this luxury. Since you visit this country, go to non-tourist areas and speak with the locals, ask them how they feel about the economy. As for Russia, I don't think the nationalist element is only among a small population, the areas that had pro-Russian population have fallen without much resistance.

Anyway, I'm trying to get back to the thread's subject since I already posted a lot of offtopic stuff.

Explain to me how you don't have the same opportunity of moving to another country after a higher salary.

[alach]

Unsurprising. Witkoff probably also gargled his way to a Moscow penthouse.

A report by Polish outlet Onet, cited by European Pravda on 7 August, claims that the United States presented a proposal to Russian President Vladimir Putin aimed at ending the war in Ukraine. The offer was reportedly delivered during a meeting in Moscow between Putin and Steve Witkoff, a special envoy of U.S. President Donald Trump. Although Onet did not disclose its sources, it stated the proposal had been coordinated with several European nations and was described as “very favourable” to Moscow.

The reported proposal includes a ceasefire in Ukraine without a formal peace agreement. It would delay resolving the status of Russian-occupied territories by 49 or 99 years, effectively freezing the conflict. The plan also envisages lifting most sanctions against Russia, with an eventual return to energy cooperation, including the resumption of oil and gas imports. However, it does not include assurances about halting NATO enlargement - one of Moscow’s long-standing demands. Despite this omission, Onet reports that the Russian side found the overall offer acceptable, even though it does not explicitly halt Western military assistance to Ukraine.

Oof. Too much posting today. Need a break. Chow!

[Endus]

There were not states/nations in ancient times the same way they do now, with specific borders etc.

This is a lie. You're lying right to our faces, to push Nazi-type bullshit.

We've had nation-states since the times of ancient Egypt and Sumer. Those nations had "specific borders" as much as any others in the modern era.

In fact ancient Greece had something similar to this and was perhaps one of the few places that did that, the so called "Greek city states" Divided states but still identifying the same way, as Greeks. They understood very well that they are the same, those who were foreign, they called them barbarians. They united against Persians and common ethnicity/culture was one of the reasons they did that.

Political unison against a common enemy is not the same thing as shared ethnicity. Hell, the Hellenic peoples weren't the original people of that territory; the Hellenes immigrated to Greece.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians

You continue to not know a goddamned thing about anything you say.

The 95%+ of citizens in modern Greece, identify as ethnic Greeks, so all populations/cultures who existed here before the Greeks have assimilated into them, they no longer exist, they are now part of the same ethnicity. We are talking about populations who are 4000+ years old, Greeks are that ancient. The ancestors of the Greeks, the so called Pelasgians are part of us too. Not sure, what's so hard to understand. The statistics are out there, you can check them.

Bragging about your nation exterminating minority populations/ethnic identities is super weird.

Also;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...s_and_religion
"The population of northern Greece has primarily been ethnically, religiously and linguistically diverse. The Muslim minority of Greece is the only explicitly recognized minority in Greece by the government. The officials define it as a group of Greek Muslims numbering 98,000 people, consisting of Turks (50%), Pomaks (35%) and Romani (15%). No other minorities are officially acknowledged by the government. There is no official information for the size of the ethnic, linguistic and religious minorities because asking the population questions pertaining to the topic have been abolished since 1951"

The statistics you claim are literally not out there, because the Greek government won't allow it to be collected.

So let's allow foreign cultures/populations get in because Greeks were not the only ones who crossed this land? does this logic make sense?

It's not an argument, so there's no logic to it in the first place. It's just a question.

If you bring a foreign culture to a population who is so homogenous there will be problems like now that muslims from north africa migrate en masse to Europe, this is a huge problem for the locals everywhere because they have a different way of life that is not compatible with the European one. One must respect a country's culture/way of life. A multicultural society CAN attack

This is just open racism. You don't have an argument, you just have intolerance and hate. Your neighbour being an African Muslim doesn't make you any less Greek. That's a literally insane claim.

You should stop confusing ethnicity and race, they are different things, while the Greeks are not so diverse at all racially, ethnicity does not care about race. Nazism is all about race and nazism is an imperialist ideology aim to eliminate some races and enforce Germanism everywhere, I don't think you understand what nazism is.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

Race is a factor of ethnicity; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicity
You keep making arguments based on race, like the immediately above concern about people from North Africa.
Nazism was very much focused on cultural aspects as much as racial aspects. Hence why they targeted socialists and the LGBTQ+, among others, beyond just Jews (who themselves were a cultural ethnic identity, not a purely racial one.

You don't have a sweet damned clue what Nazism was, because you keep repeating their talking points as if they're reasonable positions. Which means you're either completely uninformed/misled as to what Nazism was and what the ideology represented, or you're a Nazi yourself and trying to hide it.

Race=blood&Genes / Ethnicity=Language/Religion/History/Culture/Way of life/Identification. We are talking about the second.

Your framing is fundamentally and objectively incorrect, and there is no reason whatsoever I should entertain a false framing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(...ategorization)

All framings of "race" are fundamentally arbitrary, and do not have any basis in biology or science. Certainly not genetics. You're making up bullshit, again.

[Vampiregenesis]

Unsurprising. Witkoff probably also gargled his way to a Moscow penthouse.



Oof. Too much posting today. Need a break. Chow!

If Russia is weak and losing then why the need for such agreement?

The west is trying desperately to stall. Either way, I doubt Putin will accept this. The west has realized that sanctions simply don't work so they will lift them, all they want is to freeze the conflict for few years until they re-arm/re-organize. It's funny that they actually accept their dependence on Russian oil/gas and they want them back now.

The west has to realize that Putin wants all of Ukraine and if they don't defeat him in the battlefield, they won't achieve anything.

[Calfredd]

If Russia is weak and losing then why the need for such agreement?

The west is trying desperately to stall. Either way, I doubt Putin will accept this. The west has realized that sanctions simply don't work so they will lift them, all they want is to freeze the conflict for few years until they re-arm/re-organize. It's funny that they actually accept their dependence on Russian oil/gas and they want them back now.

The west has to realize that Putin wants all of Ukraine and if they don't defeat him in the battlefield, they won't achieve anything.

Aizen, have you ever thought about going back to talking about video games? You were just as ignorant about video games but at least your uninformed opinions weren't harmful to others like your political opinions.

[Edge-]

If Russia is weak and losing then why the need for such agreement?

bro have you paid any attention to american politics?

donny wants a win and doesn't want to work

ukraine will obviously not agree to this deal, as they declined to agree to previous bullshit deals made by idiots

The west is trying desperately to stall.

america does not represent "the west" currently and is more closely aligned with russia in many regards

The west has to realize that Putin wants all of Ukraine and if they don't defeat him in the battlefield, they won't achieve anything.

we know, which is why you see little support for any kind of nonsense deal here

it's like you don't read this thread when you're not around or something

[Neufab]

She would be from the parts that were seized and stolen first then? I hope her family is ok. How does she feel about the situation now?

No she's from western Ukraine. Her family is fine thank you

These days she despises Putin for being the megalomaniac fascist dipshit he is.

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Guess what, you can easily buy a house in Greece. I can't buy a house in Denmark just as easily working from here. Sure, there are rich Greeks, primarily among those who left the country during the crisis, these made careers and a lot of money in the countries they went. Not all of us have this luxury. Since you visit this country, go to non-tourist areas and speak with the locals, ask them how they feel about the economy. As for Russia, I don't think the nationalist element is only among a small population, the areas that had pro-Russian population have fallen without much resistance.

Anyway, I'm trying to get back to the thread's subject since I already posted a lot of offtopic stuff.

You have no friggin clue. I earn the danish median income spot on and I sure as hell can't afford a house in Greece, and I can also point you to as many poor local districts here as you'd like.
You greeks are simply not the special snowflakes being abused buy the rich north that your propaganda tells you dude. You're a tool if you think that.

However, I'm aware that the former leader of a danish rigthwing party who wanted to ban foreigners from buying vacation houses in Denmark owns a vacation house in greece. Or in other words, the people who write the propaganda you buy into are bloody laughin at you for not being able to comprehend their lies and hypocrisy.

As for Russia you are talking out of your ass again.

[alach]

So the 8th came and went and it doesn't seem like there was any sort of ceasefire. In fact russia attacked and killed people in Dnipropetrovsk and another 1000 russia soldiers died.
Here is a good example of the country that trump wants to make deals with.

Stolen children 'marketplace': Russia creates 'catalogue' of Ukrainian kids for adoption

Russia is now offering forcefully deported Ukrainian minors for coerced “adoption” through a newly created “catalogue”, where Ukrainian children are categorised by age, eyes and hair colour.
Russia-installed occupation authorities in Ukraine’s Luhansk region created an online “catalogue” of Ukrainian children, offering them for coerced “adoption” through the education department.

Horrifying, but as someone who was best friends with a serial child molester for 15 years, it shouldn't be a deal breaker I guess.
Putin is saying he will end the war if he can keep the Donbas, which is what he was after day 1. Its rich is minerals and gas fields in exchange for only a million lives lost and along with sanction relief by trump, putin will come out of this pretty well off.
If they sign this, Zelensky needs to do everything he can to speedrun his way in the EU and NATO, whichever one SpecialK doesn't object to, of course, so this doesn't happen again in 5 years. Because it will.

(small ask, can we keep the russia stuff here. its just easier to find. trump gets a lot of other attention.)

[Specialka]

So the 8th came and went and it doesn't seem like there was any sort of ceasefire. In fact russia attacked and killed people in Dnipropetrovsk and another 1000 russia soldiers died.
Here is a good example of the country that trump wants to make deals with.

Stolen children 'marketplace': Russia creates 'catalogue' of Ukrainian kids for adoption


Horrifying, but as someone who was best friends with a serial child molester for 15 years, it shouldn't be a deal breaker I guess.
Putin is saying he will end the war if he can keep the Donbas, which is what he was after day 1. Its rich is minerals and gas fields in exchange for only a million lives lost and along with sanction relief by trump, putin will come out of this pretty well off.
If they sign this, Zelensky needs to do everything he can to speedrun his way in the EU and NATO, whichever one SpecialK doesn't object to, of course, so this doesn't happen again in 5 years. Because it will.

(small ask, can we keep the russia stuff here. its just easier to find. trump gets a lot of other attention.)

Ukraine can join NATO for all I care (UE should leave NATO anyway, it is time we get an european army). Ukraine has no business in UE especially if they lose the Dombass and all the ressources there.