Russian invasion of Ukraine

[diller]

this sub doesn't like this reality

As if you knew anything about reality.

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So Trump is already saying Ukraine will have to give up land so whatever he will talk about with Putin will pointless since Ukraine will not agree to that.

He will probably turn on Ukraine for not agreeing to his plan.

[Corvus]

What is being proposed is a ceasefire and nothing more, on which Trump wants to give away Ukrainian land, including parts they hold, with no security guarantees for Ukrainian, as well as easing of sanctions on russia and restrictions on Ukraine's ability to rearm.

Basically everything russia wants and the ability to rearm and rebuild forces to attack again in the near future.

Of course Ukraine and Europea will reject it

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Well the Kremlin is saying that the US misinterpreted their comments - the US envoy thought they meant the withdrawal of russian troops from parts of kherson and zaporizhia and took that as an offer of land swaps but russia says it has to be the Ukrainians who retreat from the entirely if both oblasts and there will be no swaps.

[Specialka]

What is being proposed is a ceasefire and nothing more, on which Trump wants to give away Ukrainian land, including parts they hold, with no security guarantees for Ukrainian, as well as easing of sanctions on russia and restrictions on Ukraine's ability to rearm.

Basically everything russia wants and the ability to rearm and rebuild forces to attack again in the near future.

Of course Ukraine and Europea will reject it

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Well the Kremlin is saying that the US misinterpreted their comments - the US envoy thought they meant the withdrawal of russian troops from parts of kherson and zaporizhia and took that as an offer of land swaps but russia says it has to be the Ukrainians who retreat from the entirely if both oblasts and there will be no swaps.

Boo, people are bad because they do not want Trump to get his Nobel Prize of Peace ! /s

[Edge-]

Well the Kremlin is saying that the US misinterpreted their comments - the US envoy thought they meant the withdrawal of russian troops from parts of kherson and zaporizhia and took that as an offer of land swaps but russia says it has to be the Ukrainians who retreat from the entirely if both oblasts and there will be no swaps.

wait

a real estate "developer" with zero foreign policy or international relations experience

zero knowledge of putin or russia

zero knowledge of ukraine

and who is generally otherwise an idiot

might have misunderstood the notoriously dishonest russian government?

well is that isn't incredibly on brand for this administration i don't know what is lmao

[alach]

Boo, people are bad because they do not want Trump to get his Nobel Prize of Peace ! /s

Have you been drinking? Your sense-making is at an all time low.
Are you implying people here are irritated by the fact trump made a deal with putin to give up the sovereignity of a democratic nation that would send a precedent for autocratic and dictators around the would they are free to do as they please with little international pushback?

[Specialka]

Have you been drinking? Your sense-making is at an all time low.
Are you implying people here are irritated by the fact trump made a deal with putin to give up the sovereignity of a democratic nation that would send a precedent for autocratic and dictators around the would they are free to do as they please with little international pushback?

Are you not the getting the sarcasm ? I thought the /s would give it away.

Trump wants a fast deal and the killing to stop (whatever who have to concede anything) so he can claim he ATTAINED peace (praise be !) and gloat about it. And he do not care if the two belligerents resume the hostilities in a few years.

[Elder Millennial]

I truly wonder...if Trump made "territorial concessions" in Alaska or the Aleutian Islands to Russia, would MAGA turn on him or just shrug and praise his strategic genius?

[Dontrike]

I truly wonder...if Trump made "territorial concessions" in Alaska or the Aleutian Islands to Russia, would MAGA turn on him or just shrug and praise his strategic genius?

These are people that openly applaud Trump for raping children, so of course they'd be fine if he sold out parts, if not all, of the U.S.

[zorkuus]

These are people that openly applaud Trump for raping children, so of course they'd be fine if he sold out parts, if not all, of the U.S.

I think they'd be fine with tRump just giving away land for free without getting anything in return from Pootin.

[Edge-]

I truly wonder...if Trump made "territorial concessions" in Alaska or the Aleutian Islands to Russia, would MAGA turn on him or just shrug and praise his strategic genius?

lisa murkowski would be very concerned

very very

[Elenos]

Looking at reality if there's any deal it will probably involve the following:

- Russia will want all of Donetsk and their current lines Kherson and Zaporizhzhia Oblasts. This is what virtually any credible source is saying. Press X to doubt on them getting Sloviansk and Kramatorsk though through some peace deal.

- Ukraine obviously wants a lot of things, they are unlikely to get them. They might be forced to settle for having Russia withdraw from Sumy and Kharkiv Oblasts in exchange for giving Russia some territory in Donetsk.

- Security guarantees and other things? We'll see on that. Though I'll note the following: There's a zero chance that Europe or the US will ever agree to that, regardless of public statements: No European country will ever agree to a deal that forces them to go to war with Russia if they invade Ukraine again. ZERO. There is absolutely no way that EU politicians will EVER do that given domestic situation and the US wants to focus on China.

My view? There's going to be a lot of public drama, propaganda, but ultimately it depends on what Putin is willing to accept and what Trump is willing to give him: What Ukraine wants is irrelevant: The moment the US cuts off arms, intel, GPS and Starshield they lose the war in a month and no Europe can't replace these especially Starshield. In a decade? Maybe, a BIG fat maybe.

Now I'm sure I'll hear the usual: Russia can't sustain it, their economy will crumble, we could give Ukraine more. That's a nice fantasy that I've been hearing for almost FOUR years. I've seen and talked to serious economists who were trying to sell me that back in 2014: That Russia getting kicked out of Swift could cause their economy to implode in a few months, that they'd be crushed in a year and so on and so on.

Facts are that as long as Putin doesn't lose China's support he can keep it going until he wins and China has every interest for him to do so.

The peace talks we're seeing? They are not happening in a vacuum. They are happening because China would rather not be tariffed by the US over Russian oil purchases. It's not relevant whether or not a deal is reached but that Putin is willing to negotiate a deal even if the West will never agree to his demands, that is enough to satisfy China.

[Edge-]

wait so donald is holding "peace talks" with putin in alaska...but zelensky isn't coming? don't you like, need to have both parties to discuss peace?

or is this just cover for an in-person meeting without any american translators, again?

[Elenos]

wait so donald is holding "peace talks" with putin in alaska...but zelensky isn't coming? don't you like, need to have both parties to discuss peace?

or is this just cover for an in-person meeting without any american translators, again?

It's a naked show of power: Ukraine doesn't matter, the big boys do.

Seriously China would make more sense at the table.

[Edge-]

It's a naked show of power: Ukraine doesn't matter, the big boys do.

Seriously China would make more sense at the table.

????

is it? or is it just an excuse for donald to invite an international criminal to us soil to have a private meeting with him that will have zero oversight or records?

[Elenos]

????

is it? or is it just an excuse for donald to invite an international criminal to us soil to have a private meeting with him that will have zero oversight or records?

Trump really doesn't care to focus on Europe or any other part of the world besides Asia. He's got one major target but he can't ignore it because he needs to make a sell to the GOP in Congress one way or another. Putin's interested in showing he's not the obstacle.

or it could be Trump just wants to gift Putin a golden tie with the Trump logo on it. If anyone claims they know what Trump's motivation are I'd call them a liar.

[En Sabah Nur]

It's a naked show of power

For Putin, definitely. Certainly not for Trump.

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If anyone claims they know what Trump's motivation are I'd call them a liar.

We know what his motivation is, though. He's desperate for a Nobel to show that, no, Obama isn't better than him, damn it!

[Mayhem]

Trump really doesn't care to focus on Europe or any other part of the world besides Asia. He's got one major target but he can't ignore it because he needs to make a sell to the GOP in Congress one way or another. Putin's interested in showing he's not the obstacle.

or it could be Trump just wants to gift Putin a golden tie with the Trump logo on it. If anyone claims they know what Trump's motivation are I'd call them a liar.

So, judging by the second part of your post, the first part of your post is you lying?

[Edge-]

Trump really doesn't care to focus on Europe or any other part of the world besides Asia.

Is he focused anywhere other than the golf course? I'm skeptical his focus is elsewhere.

or it could be Trump just wants to gift Putin a golden tie with the Trump logo on it.

it astound me people still remotely act like donald is a competent or serious person capable of anything like strategic planning/thinking or anything. it's like folks continually forget who donald is despite his incompetence and brain damage constantly being front-page news.

truly, the man is actually playing 5D chess still, somehow, apparently.

[diller]

Looking at reality if there's any deal it will probably involve the following

There won't be a deal - Trump and Putin might have some thoughts but in no way will can it be considered a deal.

I know you somehow think you are being 'realistic' but really you are not.

[Elenos]

it astound me people still remotely act like donald is a competent or serious person capable of anything like strategic planning/thinking or anything.

A reality is that through history very few political leaders did that even those we remember as greats. You know what's the greatest irony about Trump? He's basically following Obama's late 2014 foreign policy objectives: The style and the things he's doing are vastly different but the goals are literally the same: Reduce US involvement in Europe, push them to do more on their own defense and autonomy, contain the Middle East and pivot towards Asia.

The US has been doing this for over a decade and a half now. How it's been these are different but the end goal is the same.