Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Valdhammer]

The only possible path to peace is to completely overwhelm Putin. Give Ukraine all the support it needs to win the war. That’s the only thing that can work and that will not result in encouraging Putin and others like him to invade other countries.

[Iliena]

I honestly doubt it.

Once Trump is gone the US becomes a more reliable ally again and when, eventually, the Ukraine war ends and Russia is licking its wounds governments are going to go back to cutting defense spending because its the easiest thing to cut.

Not true unfortunately, the first time Trump was voted into office it was viewed by many in Europe/NATO as a mistake, that they corrected at the first opportunity. Voting him in for a second term and the nonsense he has done make the US unreliable both economically and defensively even to their allies, it will take along time to regain that trust.

[Wilian]

According to CNN and CBS Ukraine has accepted the US peace deal with some minor alterations still on the table.

If the western capitulation on war in Europe is this, then I hope its at least the edited European deal even if that too is ridiculously generous for Russia rather than the one presented by Russia to US

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-n...trump-11-25-25

[alach]

According to CNN and CBS Ukraine has accepted the US peace deal with some minor alterations still on the table.

If the western capitulation on war in Europe is this, then I hope its at least the edited European deal even if that too is ridiculously generous for Russia rather than the one presented by Russia to US

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-n...trump-11-25-25

Pretty sure they mean the last deal, that Ukraine, EU, Rubio, and for some reason Jared Kushner were all just meeting for, not the putin 28 pt surrender plan.
At least I hope.

[D Luniz]

According to CNN and CBS Ukraine has accepted the US peace deal with some minor alterations still on the table.

If the western capitulation on war in Europe is this, then I hope its at least the edited European deal even if that too is ridiculously generous for Russia rather than the one presented by Russia to US

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-n...trump-11-25-25

"A US official says" they agreed to it while the same article says Zelenksy(sp?) says more alterations are needed.
So nothing agreed to by Ukraine, but abunch of White House people are trying to figure what other screws to turn to force a surrender.

[Gorsameth]

Not true unfortunately, the first time Trump was voted into office it was viewed by many in Europe/NATO as a mistake, that they corrected at the first opportunity. Voting him in for a second term and the nonsense he has done make the US unreliable both economically and defensively even to their allies, it will take along time to regain that trust.

Nothing builds 'trust' quite as fast as "we have a 5 billion dollar hole in the budget and no one complains if we take it out of the defense department as opposed to healthcare or education".

The average voter isn't going to care once the obvious and immediate threat of a war in Europe dies down after the Ukraine war eventually ends.

[Corvus]

Ukraine says they have reached an agreement with the US to accept a modified plan. Doesn't really hurt them as there is no way russia will agree to it.

[diller]

I honestly doubt it.

Once Trump is gone the US becomes a more reliable ally again

I wouldn't bet on it, ultimately not relying on the US is the way forward.

[Mayhem]

I wouldn't bet on it, ultimately not relying on the US is the way forward.

If they change their system and put fail-safes in place, then they could become a reliable partner again, no doubt. But this fucking dance of hoping the citizens of the US don't elect a fascist moron who wages economic war on the world while giving the most insane voices not just an outlet but high-ranking government positions is not tolerable.

[Gabriel]

I can't wait for Russia to just ignore whatever deal is made and EU being all surprise pikachu and then condemning Russian agression with... *gasp* the strongest terms *shudder*and Trump pissing and shitting himself on xitter about how Putin is mean.

[Iphie]

I honestly doubt it.

Once Trump is gone the US becomes a more reliable ally again and when, eventually, the Ukraine war ends and Russia is licking its wounds governments are going to go back to cutting defense spending because its the easiest thing to cut.

I sincerely doubt it, Trump has destroyed everything every other president after WWII worked for with regards to reliability. Pax Americana is over and Europe needs to take care of her own. (sounds suspiciously like "Europe first" I know, but it is what it is.)

[Gorsameth]

Your all right, the US can't be trusted on and Europe needs to stand on its own, but history is also full of examples that once the immediate threat is gone vigilance quickly drops.

It shouldn't happen, but I believe it will.

[Glorious Leader]

I sincerely doubt it, Trump has destroyed everything every other president after WWII worked for with regards to reliability. Pax Americana is over and Europe needs to take care of her own. (sounds suspiciously like "Europe first" I know, but it is what it is.)

Which if you were an American seeing this you should be pissed. Americam hegemony is being sacrificed for a fucking orange toddler...

[Elder Millennial]

We have exactly fuckall information wise on what exactly did Ukraine agree or didn't agree to.

The information coming out of the White House is completely useless and the Ukrainians have said basically nothing.

Important to note that some sources claim there are "minor points of disagreement" others say there are "some points of disagreement".

There are about 6 points of difference for example between the EU peace proposal and the US one, yet the two documents are FUNDAMENTALLY different.

So who the fuck knows.

[Iphie]

Your all right, the US can't be trusted on and Europe needs to stand on its own, but history is also full of examples that once the immediate threat is gone vigilance quickly drops.

It shouldn't happen, but I believe it will.

if you think Finland, the Baltics, and Poland are gonna let the rest forget how much of a twat russia is I don't think you know those countries. They will continually remind you of what happened.

Which if you were an American seeing this you should be pissed. Americam hegemony is being sacrificed for a fucking orange toddler...

The sad thing is that those who voted for him think this asserts American hegemony.

[Gabriel]

if you think Finland, the Baltics, and Poland are gonna let the rest forget how much of a twat russia is I don't think you know those countries. They will continually remind you of what happened.

Severus_Snape_always_meme.png

[DarkTZeratul]

if you think Finland, the Baltics, and Poland are gonna let the rest forget how much of a twat russia is I don't think you know those countries. They will continually remind you of what happened.

As one person put it only Bluesky, "do you have any idea how much you have to piss somebody off to make them change their [railroad] gauge?"

[Flarelaine]

As one person put it only Bluesky, "do you have any idea how much you have to piss somebody off to make them change their [railroad] gauge?"

Now let's see Ukraine do the same

[Wilian]

if you think Finland, the Baltics, and Poland are gonna let the rest forget how much of a twat russia is I don't think you know those countries. They will continually remind you of what happened.

The problem with this is that Poland and Baltics were saying this for decades and Europe didn't listen, if anything, they were somewhat ridiculed over alarmism. They did not listen during Chechen wars and genocide of Grozny, not when against all agreements continued the occupation of Transistrinia in Moldova, not when they attacked Georgia and even after initial invasion of Ukraine 2014 slap on the wrist sanctions were best they could muster while trying to pursue business as usual with massive geopolitical projects like NordStream 2. While Finland finally shredded last of the influence of Finlandization back in 2022, I don't really have faith in rest of the Europe, especially when for the political base, the voters the issue seems distant and benefits of trade and energy dependance through cheaper pricing seem more immediate and appealing.

[Corvus]

As expected, pootie isn't happy with the peace plan, saying the fighting will not end until Ukraine withdraws from all the land he wants. That is not just the Donestk region that Trump wanted to give him, but the kherson and zaporizhzhia regions he's never held.

At current rates, it'd take 2 years and another 750,000 russian casualties to just take Donestk. Not to mention the serious problems the russian economy will be in by then.