Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Gaidax]

This is also likely why he gambled so hard on taking out the Kyiv airports early on. If he could have presented a fait accompli in the first 48 hours and attempted to play out his "look, we're just helping free them and establish a real democracy!" farce more quickly, he might have avoided some of these sanctions. Even if he gave up some, he might have considered that more of a win for being able to keep Ukraine out of NATO and firming his hold on Crimea and Donbas.

Even now, he could still see an appeasement way out of this that would get him some of the goals that he wanted, though it's beginning to look far less likely. I'm not sure how easily he could change his plans now, since they have a certain amount of momentum.

I think he can do the same after 2 weeks or even after 2 months as well.

It can be something along the lines - "we back off a tad and you lift some of your sanctions". That's why I wonder how it will go a year from now. Now everyone is kneejerking, but in the end they will all sit down behind the curtains and have bargaining begin.

Now of course this is very simplistic - but in the last decade you seen wilder things go from 0 to 100 and back to 0.

[crejack]

Here's the difference. Everyone knew Trump was at most a temporary problem for a max of 8 years. And he didn't actually cause any damage. Oh, he pissed off a lot of people and cost people some money, but it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Putin? For him to go, he has to die first. I hope he dies every day, but that fucker is just about as stubborn as a cockroach.

Oh yeah, agree, it's why I said even more. America can unfuck itself from Trump easier then Russia can unfuck itself from Putin. Though both of them may claim victories, everyone with a brain knows he ain't winning shit from this. Putin is mad. This isn't even complicated.

[Slant]

Tbh, I'm still in awe that he has managed to break down decades old cultural taboo and pacifism by uno reverse carding 75 years of German war guilt, all within three short days.

It's not as simple as that. And your assessment is inaccurate at best. Germany's pacifist trait is fairly recent, basically since Germany gave up the purely defensive military strategy, ie. German troops never leave German soil. Once that went out the window with Yugoslavia, we said "Ok, we'll leave German soil, but we won't attack or take part in anything that isn't purely defensive or NATO."

And so on and so forth. It's all a bit more nuanced than "war guilt". People need to stop reducing Germany to a traumatized, depressed half-suicidal maniac blaming itself for something that happened 4 generations ago. You'll have to accept that Germany is actually thinking diplomatic solutions tend to produce less problems. Which they do typically. And the fun thing is, if they fail, you can still throw rocks.

What Putin has accomplished is not so much reversing German pacifism, it's reminding Germany that pacifism works best if you have a big ass clout in your hand going "Yes, I could use this clout to smash your head in... absolutely, it would be no big task, simple even... but I choose not to. For now. Convince me to make the same choice again tomorrow..."

[PhaelixWW]

The name dates back to at least the 17th century, and arguably the 12th, and you think they should have just changed it?

I'm saying that that's what Gaidax suggested. I understand the point he was making, but I don't particularly feel one way or the other about it.

[Gaidax]

I'm saying that that's what Gaidax suggested. I understand the point he was making, but I don't particularly feel one way or the other about it.

You got it right, but I guess it's too nuanced for people to understand, especially if they were not actually born in Ukraine. Ukraine is not some random word, some may think. Words have meanings and nuance to them.

[guro-tchai]

But don't you think for a moment that it was some REEE outburst there - it was deliberate plan long time in making.

Burn it.
BURN IT.

I wonder if he'll nuke Lviv à la Hiroshima, to pacify the locals. Would they surrender under the risk of being nuked or vacuum bombed en masse?
It's not like he's got anything else to lose.

[Slant]

Jesus... guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine

Now go read that shit and stop talking about the freaking name... really. :P

[Gaidax]

Burn it.
BURN IT.

I wonder if he'll nuke Lviv à la Hiroshima, to pacify the locals. Would they surrender under the risk of being nuked or vacuum bombed en masse?
It's not like he's got anything else to lose.

There is 0 chance of this happening.

Really, people need to lay off their nuclear hard-on. Putin wants to play tough and have some easily impressed people freak out and chicken out. But that's where it ends.

[Easo]

Someone has good radio scanner up in Ukraine somewhere and this Twitch streamer is listening to it, people are translating - this shit is fucking OpSecs for Russians. I can already see people panicking on Lost Armour, because there are callouts for airstrikes.
https://www.twitch.tv/JustPade

[melzas]

You got it right, but I guess it's too nuanced for people to understand, especially if they were not actually born in Ukraine. Ukraine is not some random word, some may think. Words have meanings and nuance to them.

Ukraine never in any context meant "borderlands of russia" no matter how you try to spin it.

[Vampiregenesis]

Do the Ukrainian nationalists hate Russians or just Putin? Generally, are there Ukrainians who sympathize with Russians? What is the view of a Russian in Ukraine?

Overall, I see some heavy fighting between them, I wouldn't call them brother nations and it surprises me that they share a family member. As a Greek I'm telling you that you would never see my state fight cyprus and kill them like that. This is beyond me. I just can't picture something like this in my mind, it would be madness and tragedy. I guess the same goes for german-austrians etc.

I just don't understand how can they be called brother nations, also it's usually nationalists who call for unification with other "brother nations" eg. in greece and cyprus the nationalists are the ones who call about the unification of these states, in Ukraine the nationalists oppose it, this is weird overall.

[Gorsameth]

Someone has good radio scanner up in Ukraine somewhere and this Twitch streamer is listening to it, people are translating - this shit is fucking OpSecs for Russians. I can already see people panicking on Lost Armour, because there are callouts for airstrikes.
https://www.twitch.tv/JustPade

Lets be real, if some guy with a radio scanner picks it up the Russians have already been listening for a while.

[PhaelixWW]

Under no "normal" circumstances can he win anything out of this.

No, that's just your impression, based on what you consider "worth it" in this scenario.

He's losing support at home before the war even got going for real, he's not having the swift victory he wanted originally and when he does ultimately defeat Ukraine, he'll have to occupy a country that hates him...

Do you honestly think that he's terribly worried about his support in Moscow? I mean, I'm sure it concerns him, but I believe that he's more than comfortable with and capable of breaking any local unrest with a firm hand. I doubt he's legitimately worried about losing his throne.

You're also presupposing that his goal is to occupy Ukraine. While I'm sure that was a stretch goal of this war, I'm extremely convinced that it was never the primary goal. In fact, I think it's strange that you think so.

Nah man, this was a big ass miscalculation of a madman. This was a Hitleresque move of idiocy. This was him thinking the world will realign itself to fit his world view. And now he's pissed that somehow nobody on this planet agrees with him.

Your logical thought process lacks scope, then, I'm afraid.

[Easo]

Lets be real, if some guy with a radio scanner picks it up the Russians have already been listening for a while.

You misunderstood, it's Russian radio calls. Not saying Ukraine can't listen to them without some random dude, but this, theoretically, is useful, one more listening station does not hurt. Unless Ukrainian MoD did the same stupid as Russian one.

[Gaidax]

Do the Ukrainian nationalists hate Russians or just Putin? Generally, are there Ukrainians who sympathize with Russians? What is the view of a Russian in Ukraine?

Overall, I see some heavy fighting between them, I wouldn't call them brother nations and it surprises me that they share a family member. As a Greek I'm telling you that you would never see my state fight cyprus and kill them like that. This is beyond me. I just can't picture something like this in my mind, it would be madness and tragedy. I guess the same goes for german-austrians etc.

After all, I have seen in this war I just don't understand how can they be called brother nations, also it's usually nationalists who call for unification with other "brother nations" eg. in greece and cyprus the nationalists are the ones who call about the unification of these states, in Ukraine the nationalists oppose it, this is weird overall.

There exist some heavy nationalists in Ukraine that gained some ground as of late. I actually do think some of them are pretty much level of Nazis, but it's a super fringe minority. And Putin takes these as example/justification they sell to Russians - where Ukraine is overtaken by Nazis and what not. You could really say they are useful idiots working for the enemy in this thing.

Vast majority of the country is sane people who want to live their lives and not really hate anyone, especially because many have relatives just across the border. But yes, you can imagine - when you have a neighbor messing your country up for years they and their nationals aren't going to get many hugs.

And brother nations because Ukraine is probably closest thing to Russia of all post-Soviet republics as far as family ties go, at least in my opinion. Like take me I was born in Ukraine and there was extended family and grandparents in Russia - I was flying to visit them once a year back in the day.

There are A LOT of links like this.

[Kaleredar]

Do the Ukrainian nationalists hate Russians or just Putin? Generally, are there Ukrainians who sympathize with Russians? What is the view of a Russian in Ukraine?

Overall, I see some heavy fighting between them, I wouldn't call them brother nations and it surprises me that they share a family member. As a Greek I'm telling you that you would never see my state fight cyprus and kill them like that. This is beyond me. I just can't picture something like this in my mind, it would be madness and tragedy. I guess the same goes for german-austrians etc.

I just don't understand how can they be called brother nations, also it's usually nationalists who call for unification with other "brother nations" eg. in greece and cyprus the nationalists are the ones who call about the unification of these states, in Ukraine the nationalists oppose it, this is weird overall.

Whatever solidarity the Ukrainians felt for the Russians probably dried up pretty quick when the Russians started marching into their country and blowing up their buildings.

Or in other words, why in the flying fuck would a Ukrainian not have a pretty sour opinion of the country and the people that are currently invading them?

[melzas]

Do the Ukrainian nationalists hate Russians or just Putin? Generally, are there Ukrainians who sympathize with Russians? What is the view of a Russian in Ukraine?

Overall, I see some heavy fighting between them, I wouldn't call them brother nations and it surprises me that they share a family member. As a Greek I'm telling you that you would never see my state fight cyprus and kill them like that. This is beyond me. I just can't picture something like this in my mind, it would be madness and tragedy. I guess the same goes for german-austrians etc.

I just don't understand how can they be called brother nations, also it's usually nationalists who call for unification with other "brother nations" eg. in greece and cyprus the nationalists are the ones who call about the unification of these states, in Ukraine the nationalists oppose it, this is weird overall.

Yes, many extreme ukrainian nationalists hate all russians. They blame them for many things throughout history and hold serious grudge against them. More level headed ukrainians treat them like friends or brothers, same with other slavic countries like poland or belarus.

[PhaelixWW]

Believe whatever you want, don't care anymore.

Ukraine never in any context meant "borderlands of russia" no matter how you try to spin it.

Clearly, you do care, because you still keep misinterpreting despite the explanations.

[DarkAmbient]

#Ukriane (sic) is trending, awkward

[melzas]

Clearly, you do care, because you still keep misinterpreting despite the explanations.

I care that nobody gets to spread lies that Ukraine means "borderlands of russia". I don't care what you think personally (I specifically said "believe what you want" see?), because you showed 2 times already that you would ignore it when I point you to the truth. Hope it's clear for you now.