1. #5041
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    After watching so many corpses and explosions I probably start to lose contact with reality and it feels like watching an anime. The media doesn't help with this.
    Imagine typing this in words and thinking this is a remotely appropriate thing to state in a public place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #5042
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I get your point but looking at the history of Russia, it's hard to see a reference point where Russian would go we've had much better this guy sucks let's do something about it. The younger generations is more plugged into the outside so they are more likely but the average Russian has no catalyst to think that way.
    What about 1917? When Communism wasn’t just a facade for a fascist regime?

  3. #5043
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    There's no argument.
    You're absolutely correct. There's no argument to be had with someone spouting Kremlin propaganda verbatim and feigning concern for other humans while they have a signature gloating about their refusal to get vaccinated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  4. #5044
    Well, for the purpose of defining the conflict, it isn't "Joe Average Russia" who lives in Russia that is the enemy. It's the soldier following orders attacking Ukraine that is the enemy.

  5. #5045
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Well, for the purpose of defining the conflict, it isn't "Joe Average Russia" who lives in Russia that is the enemy. It's the soldier following orders attacking Ukraine that is the enemy.
    “Just following orders” is not a defence. And plenty of Russians have already deserted.

    The ones left are those happy with firing MLRS cluster munitions into civilian areas.

  6. #5046
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Well, for the purpose of defining the conflict, it isn't "Joe Average Russia" who lives in Russia that is the enemy. It's the soldier following orders attacking Ukraine that is the enemy.
    So do you assume that these soldiers are doing it out of their will?

    If that's the case, how were they convinced to do this in the first place, it's very hard to believe. Is there any army in the world who will get a command from the leader and disobey it?

  7. #5047
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    So your opinion is biased. Good to know.
    No, my opinion is informed, because I actually lived there for good half of my life and still in touch with both sides family and friends.

  8. #5048
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    What about 1917? When Communism wasn’t just a facade for a fascist regime?
    To be fair, communism was very popular in the US at that time.

  9. #5049
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    So do you assume that these soldiers are doing it out of their will? If that's the case, how were they convinced to do this in the first place, it's very hard to believe. Is there any army in the world who will get a command from the leader and disobey it?
    As I put it, you need to define the enemy. And I believe General Milley of the US armed forces was mentioned earlier when it came to obeying certain orders from then president Trump.

  10. #5050
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    No, my opinion is informed, because I actually lived there for good half of my life and still in touch with both sides family and friends.
    No dude you're clearly biased despite having emotional investment on either side of the conflict. We should absolutely be listening to an antivaxxer from Sweden for a comprehensive understanding of current events. /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #5051
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    To be fair, communism was very popular in the US at that time.
    Draco-Onis couldn’t think of a reference point in Russian history where the people thought “shit, these Tzars are jerks, taking all the money while our agrarian economy goes backward while the world industrialises.”

    No parallels at all with a fascist dictatorship taking all the money from petroleum sales while their economy stinks and remains technologically in the 1980s.

  12. #5052
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Do you think Russians that come here to post are free citizens shilling for Russia? or represent the country? seriously?
    Nope, i've spoken to many, many Russians in the past 20+ years. In reality, the ones in these forums are the tiny minority with whom I've interacted.

  13. #5053
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    “Just following orders” is not a defence. And plenty of Russians have already deserted.
    That's my point. Or are those that deserted the enemy?

  14. #5054
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Outside information is aplenty in the US but how many Americans let is sway their world view let alone domestic ones? if it did we would have universal health care already. The average person lives in a self imposed bubble regardless of where they are outside information barely gets in.
    This is literally just preaching in defense of willful ignorance.

  15. #5055
    If you think food prices are high now, you have no idea what is about to happen.
    Nitrogen based fertilizers and potash based fertilizers are a huge part of Russian exports. And the world simply needs them. There are no substitutes. This war will slam the Ukrainian grain production.

    I'm stocking pasta, rice and buckwheat. You should too. There's a non zero chance of famines in places you previously would not have expected.

  16. #5056
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    So now the few trolls here represent all Russians?
    Come on dude. I know you don't believe that. Its ok to be wrong on the internet. You don't need to keep digging that hole.
    I didn't say that, and you are simply ignoring what I have said on the issue. I even specifically stated that I understand people keeping their heads down, and waiting for him to simply go away.

    I've dealt with many, many Russians over the past couple decades. These forums are simply a small representation of a much larger sample size. I've worked with them, partied with them, and even argued politics with them. Honestly, almost all the interactions (other than online forums) has been enjoyable. That doesn't mean the brainwashing (politzanyatiya), and willful ignorance about their own leaders isn't prevalent.
    Last edited by Machismo; 2022-02-28 at 02:19 PM.

  17. #5057
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    That's my point. Or are those that deserted the enemy?
    They are not.

  18. #5058
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    So your opinion is biased. Good to know.
    Literally all opinions are biased...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    So do you assume that these soldiers are doing it out of their will?

    If that's the case, how were they convinced to do this in the first place, it's very hard to believe. Is there any army in the world who will get a command from the leader and disobey it?
    If they are choosing to commit war crimes, that is entirely on them.

  19. #5059
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    They are not.
    We can find agreement...somewhere.

    Now how about an extra large shipment of sunflower seeds to be sent to the Ukraine for Russian soldier burials?

  20. #5060
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    China only sides with China. Their foreign policy can be summed up as "no friends, just interests". If those interests are showing friendly, it's only because they want something.
    Yet Russia claimed China as a friend.

    Nobody expected them to abstain on the UNSC vote. It's pretty safe to think they're dragging their feet right now while they re-evaluate the situation and what is in their interests.
    China has said
    "friendship has no limits" and "there are no forbidden areas of cooperation".

    They're currently providing Russia with some economic support. China could face secondary sanctions or reputational costs.

    Commenting on the Swift ban and whether Chinese companies would comply with US sanctions to stop delivering Russian orders, Wang said China and Russia would “continue to carry out normal trade cooperation in the spirit of mutual respect, equality and mutual benefit”.
    “We demand that the US side should not undermine the legitimate rights and interests of China and other parties when dealing with the Ukraine issue and relations with Russia,” he said.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...-affect-lawful
    Last edited by szechuan; 2022-02-28 at 02:21 PM.
    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

    Christians are Forced Birth Fascists against Human Rights who indoctrinate and groom children. Prove me wrong.

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